This is pretty special. The mage-warrior duo are awesome and you have totally succeeded with the mini-diorama style.

Thanks very much, I'm glad you like it.

I still haven't finished designing the other two bolt throwers, but meanwhile I'm working on a BSB (for a group tournament that's getting uncomfortably close), so stay tuned.

The BSB is almost finished, just need to come up with a banner top that would be awesome enough (any ideas, anyone?) and probably some freehand on his cloak. I have to say I'm quite happy with the banner (if not with the rest of the model, I'll probably tough him up to bring him to my standard), especially as it was my first major freehand attempt.

We decided to base him on Sigvald, because the model has so much character, just don't tell our elves he was originally a Chaos hero. He still needs a name, but he'll probably get some fun fluff as well.

Nice freehand work.

As for banner top, why not go with a griffon to match the artwork?

Love that sculpt, nice banner too.

Sorry to disagree, but the banner seems a little too simple for the army's Battle Standard.
The eagle is nicely made, but I expected something in the empty spaces.
It should not be just the shield motive, only larger.

Hm... I suppose you're right. Do you have any suggestion how to make it better? I usually try to go for simple elegance and was afraid to make the banner too cluttered. Maybe a rune or something?
Thanks for your feedback.

That is a phoenix you morons!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!



I do not think we can have a phoenix on top of the banner. We see it as a symbol of Asuryan but the banner is already clearly carrying his name as is. Why invoke him again? We are thinking about a small sun but are not sure about this.

Ah yes. Sorry

Closer look reveals it better. Damn tiny screens on the phone.

<feeling again like the bad guy who says "no"> How many legs?
2 legs = eagle
4 legs = griffon.

Oh, and from one of the first posts of this thread:

Conclusion:
Amboadine, you got cheated!

Callisson: Yup, cheating it is. Basically, warrior shields have the phoenix-turned-eagle normal bird while this stardard has the original picture - or something that was supposed to be like it. I guess it's hard to see the difference between feathers and flames, especially as they are the same colour.
Maybe I could add some flames around it, to make it clearly a phoenix?

Indeed, flames extending away from the..., er..., "creature" in all directions would neatly fill the empty spaces, would help classify it as a 2 legged phoenix, and furthermore would help the transition with the sun.

nice post

@ Calisson: This (eagle/phoenix) is the problem (well, a problem) with projects spanning over multiple years.

Our original plan was that while we were originally High Elves, both factions have drifted away from this lifestyle and beliefs. Under this vision, we have not seen a phoenix in ages and they carry no significance to us anymore. Therefore, the symbol was changed to an eagle or a harpy for solars and lunars, respectively.

However, the current idea is different. Now we think that after the what we consider betrayal from the "arrogant fools" of Ulthuan, one part - the lunars - purposely threw the High Elf culture away, changing their symbolism in the process, but the other part, the solars, decided they are obviously the only true elves left and are clinging to the original High Elf ways even more tightly. As a consequence, they worship Asuryan and use phoenixes on their standards.

At least I hope those are our thoughts at the moment. There was not much gaming, painting or discussing in the last several months and our opinions might have drifted in the meantime without me actually noticing.

I think so. I guess I am leaning more and more to High elf style and kits for solars in my later conversion projects while trying to still keep the army consistent, but it should still be a mix.
I believe one of the reasons why this change happened was that in the beginning we seriously underestimated the length of evlen life in Warhammer, coming from much more realistic fantasy worlds. We have just realised that there simply was not enough time in our history to forget everything so completely.

I have done a mock-up of the banner with flames added and I don't know. Maybe I'm doing it wrong (I could try to connect the flames together, maybe), but I think I prefer the plain version to this one.


(This is a scan of a printed picture with the fames painted on it, so please excuse the horrible quality)

Comparing the two, the filled one seems more appropriate for a Grand Battle Banner.
Furthermore, the flames are indispensable if you want the bird to be understood as a phoenix.
Now, ultimately, that's your army, not mine.

For the flames themselves, I like a lot how you did. Don't connect the intervals!
You just might wish to fill a tad more the bottom right corner of the banner. The bird seems not exactly centered in the flag, you would need one more flame on the right to compensate.

I definitely appreciate your input!
Yes, the phoenix is not centered, because I didn't manage to measure it well enough. I agree there should be more flames on the right side to compensate. As for the left, I was afraid it would clash with the decoration in the corners, so I'll see about that.

Sorry, I meant right, not left. No need to add anything on the left side of the banner.
Edited the posts above.

In that case I agree completely.

More pictures:



The first one is an attempt to make a border of flames. Meh. The second one is the newest, with a larger flame in the corner and the rest more similar to the first one, just with maybe a little less of the flames. I still don't know. Maybe the original one is starting to grow on me because I like it the best of the three, but...?

I would suggest to take the original one, on right, and just add one more flame between the three right bottom flames and the five right top flames.
The additional flame needs not to be attached to the other flames, in the same style already used. It could be as long as the second from bottom.
That would fill out nicely the empty blue portion.

So what you would do is fill the whole space evenly? Because I would probably think it more logical if the flames followed the phoenix - I tried to make them "come out of" the wings and tail, not its body. I'm actually not even sure the flames between the two wings need to be there (I have considered a rune, there is one meaning "guard's duty" in the new high elf heraldry book for example)
What I'm going for with the whole army is simple elegance and while just the phoenix might be a bit too empty for a battle standard, I'm not sure I want to drown it.

Looking Good Rowena, coming along nicely!

Flames must be there if your bird is to be a phoenix, not an eagle.

Now I'm home, I can take the time to draw.

Two possibilities:

Flames as a pyre, from whch the phoenix would emerge - as your bird is positioned low, there is not much room, but still, enough to show a pyre. I'm sure you can draw it much better. Flames are slightly more reddish and less goldish than the bird in order to make a difference between the pyre and the phoenix.

Flames irradiating from the phoenix in flight. These flames should cover more and less 360 degrees, they irradiate in all directions like the sun. Pretty much what you did, only with one more flame.

Thanks for the pictures. The pyre looks awesome (why haven't I thought of that?), but you're right about there not being much space and if the flag looks too empty, this doesn't fill it that much. But it makes the bird unmistakeably a phoenix and I like the design very much. Decisions, decisions... Especially as it's not just my army. (Marchosias?)
Thanks very much for all your input.

Also, the team tournament I was trying to make some new models for starts today. My results: BSB almost finished, bolt throwers finished 2/4, executioners finished 8/10 and harpies finished 3/3 (we switched to unies of a few harpies and a few razorwings to make them less cluttered, so I only needed to make one harpy and two razorwings to fill a new unit, pictures coming when I get the models back)