i've got a bone to pick...

Violatorx · Post by **Violatorx** » Sun May 30, 2004 5:40 pm

I've got a concern about the upcoming campaign

well from previous experience and hollywood, ive learnt that the bad guys never win.And i ask you what are darkelves, they are bad. So i put 2 and 2 together and i got 7. We have a huge problem, we are totally(counting all bad guys-orcs,chaos,vampires,tomb kings.etc)outnumbered by all those damn goodies.and frankly i dont think this campaign is even going to put a dent in Ulthaun,the old world or even much of lustria.Now i know how many of you will most likely correct me and say something like-"the campaign is not rigged in any way and is totally fair to both sides,offering the chance that a player can change the outcome and not the coordinators...blahblahblah"-well i'm not saying that the campaign is rigged(although i have my worries about the eye of terror)i am simply saying that as far as i and you know we simply dont have much going for us.WE ARE BAD AND BECAUSE OF THAT WE MUST SUFFER BEING UNDER THE FOOT OF ALL THE GOODY 2 SHOES OUT THERE[color=#][/color]please i would like some thoughts on the matter and maybe some motivating criticisms,please.

Bemenacth · Post by **Bemenacth** » Sun May 30, 2004 8:30 pm

Actually, chaos will win in the end because the chaos winds are slowly corrupting everything, and the demons live forever, they only have to wait for the extinction of dwarfs and elves, witch is happening soon, because they are a dying race, and chaos will be able to take over the world easily.

Dekhalan · Post by **Dekhalan** » Mon May 31, 2004 3:20 am

Well, in the Eye of Terror the Imperials took a fair beating and lost.

I dont see why the same cant happen this campaign.

Ragnarok · Post by **Ragnarok** » Mon May 31, 2004 3:34 am

Elves are not dying High elves maky be dying but that doesnt count towards the DE and WE.

Moriar · Post by **Moriar** » Mon May 31, 2004 3:52 am

I agree completly it is to predictable they cannot have to radicle an outcome or the fabric of the warhammer world and the game will unravel there will be small gains on both sides like in the darkshadows campaign. i also dont believe it will be a reflection on the forces in the campaign either and i have to say if valten kills archaon ill be very very annoyed to put it lightly!!!

Dekhalan · Post by **Dekhalan** » Mon May 31, 2004 4:00 am

Moriar wrote:i have to say if valten kills archaon ill be very very annoyed to put it lightly!!!

Whys that ?

Shadow crusader · Post by **Shadow crusader** » Mon May 31, 2004 4:42 am

I thought the bad guys won the eye of terror?

Post by **Underway** » Mon May 31, 2004 5:19 am

This post is an excellent example of not doing your research before you make a post. It is completely obvious that if you have participated in the EoT, Albion, Ichar IV, and Armeggedon 3 campaign you would know that the bad guys do win.

EoT- chaos wins and Cadia is a world in eternal war, the chaos fleets captured a number of planets, destroyed a few more and essentially will be able to attack through the Cadian Gate a will.

Albion- Dark Elves win, make a base on Albion, get many cool magic items (OK one cool item) and start enslaving the population.

Ichar IV - Eldar and Imperials win against Hive Fleet Kraken, the fleet is scattered, but Craftworld Ilyanden is almost totaly destroyed in the process.

Armegedon 3 - a tie, Orks and Imperials have 48% Orks, vs 52% Imperials and as such Armegedon is a world eternaly at war. Gazkhull Thruakka leaves to persue his master agenda, leaving the planet in ruins.

So that means a win loss ratio for the bad guys of 2 wins, 1 loss and a tie for GW sponsered worldwide campaigns.

And that hollywood argument is totaly wrong, ever see Empire Strikes Back?, Seven, The Fellowship of the Ring, 12 Monkeys, Apocalypse Now, The Usual Suspects etc... there are a tonne of movies out there where the bad guys win.

Lordsaradain · Post by **Lordsaradain** » Mon May 31, 2004 5:33 am

Albion- Dark Elves win, make a base on Albion, get many cool magic items (OK one cool item) and start enslaving the population.

I thought Lizardmen won and Kroq-Gar exterminated all bad guys and sent them home to their mommies.

Ke'hl'ash silinrul · Post by **Ke'hl'ash silinrul** » Mon May 31, 2004 7:30 am

All major tournaments (no matter in what) are fixed. That is the fact and how this world works.
But that doesn´t mean that we can´t have fun.
Let us dominate the battlefield and force the ones in charge to change their way if the campaign is fixed. Let us exterminate Lizardmen as soon as possible, make few strong allies and move on to help Chaso conquer rest. If we sign up in large numbers and try our best to win as many battles as possible maybe we can turn the tide and make "bad guys" win.
We can never know if we don´t try. So no point in being negative and blame on the past. Organize your troops and do your best. In the end, no matter who win, we will at least have some fun. Which is the point of this game.

I´m new on the Druchii.net and new to Warhammer gaming (collected and painted for a long time now) but I played many other diffrent games in few diffrent clans. Sometimes you are the underdog but with suprise and tacitcs you win the fight. Why should Warhammer campaign be diffrent?
Skaven are nasty cause of the horde army (and few other things too). Well let us be the horde now. If more Druchii players then Lizardmen sign up then we must win. And if we win in Lustria who knows how will the rest of the war go. But at least we can be proud that we did our job well.

Ostron · Post by **Ostron** » Mon May 31, 2004 9:45 am

One thing about the SOC does worry me, although I suppose it makes sense fluff-wise.

I got a look at a copy of the SOC book that my local store has, and in it they have a revised allies chart. It's set up the same way as the one in General's Compendium, but it has this new thing about "Distrustful allies". If two races can be distrustful allies, they can be on the same side, but they suffer penalties in leadership.

Anyway, the point is that the "Good" armies have a lot more options about allying than evil. Dark Elves in particular don't have anyone they can ally with without suffering a penalty. Neither, I think, do Skaven or Tomb Kings. Now that makes sense fluff-wise, I suppose (and in real life, if you look back at all the diplomatic efforts we made), but since there are repercussions in playing warhammer games, it means that the evil side will have a slight disadvantage in not being able to work as well with allies.

Hopefully we can make up for this in sheer weight of numbers.

Violatorx · Post by **Violatorx** » Mon May 31, 2004 1:56 pm

now wait a damn minute...

i never said the bad guys lost i simply said that the eye of terror campaign was not as successful as it would probobly be...thanks for getting it all wrong.And besides the previous campaigns were never mentioned,i know about their successes and failures.and back to the first point, i know that chaos will eventually take over the whole world and dwarves elves men etc are all going to die but not in our lifetime let me assure you...anyway as i said the campaign might be a success in some areas but like armagaeddon3 it will be very 50/50 and not much will come out of it...Except some nice magic items..hehe

Nagromeda · Post by **Nagromeda** » Mon May 31, 2004 2:35 pm

Who cares. Go out, play some games, post some results and have fun. Thats what the campaigns are about. Its nice if we win, of course, but really, if ur minatures got some good usage, and you had fun thats all good. It's always good to get some good fluff, but you can't always get everything. Just play, and we get whatever we get at the end of it.

Enthardon · Post by **Enthardon** » Mon May 31, 2004 5:09 pm

LordSaradain wrote:
Albion- Dark Elves win, make a base on Albion, get many cool magic items (OK one cool item) and start enslaving the population.

I thought Lizardmen won and Kroq-Gar exterminated all bad guys and sent them home to their mommies.

Yeah that is right. The DE got the most magic items, but they left after that. The lizzies succeeded in purging the island of the un friendlies with the help of their allies.

Stoddy · Post by **Stoddy** » Mon May 31, 2004 5:26 pm

@ Silinrul
[quote] All major tournaments (no matter in what) are fixed. That is the fact and how this world works. [/quote]
Ah-ha! I knew there there was a reason why England won the Rugby World Cup... :roll:

@ Violatorx

anyway as i said the campaign might be a success in some areas but like armagaeddon3 it will be very 50/50 and not much will come out of it...Except some nice magic items..hehe

The only magic items we can get will be fluff ones. GW has said repeatedly that the result will only affect fluff. Also, from what I understand, what happens to Archaon and Valten and so forth is largely out of our hands. What's in our hands is what happens to the armies as a whole, i.e how successful Chaos is, how much carnage the Orcs cause, etc.

Violatorx · Post by **Violatorx** » Wed Jun 02, 2004 4:04 pm

good now that everyone isn't breathing down my neck...

yes very good points and like all campaigns we should just have fun but i still think archaeon has no hope against that valten fellow.Have you seen his rules!!!
the're awesome and he is cheaper than archaeon not to mention the elector count of middenheim who has the reikland thingy and regenerates all wounds automatically each turn without tests...woa.

Another piont i'd have to stress is that the lizards would(in theory) have no hope of derailing the dark elf invasion, they are just no longer a "superpower" and we could do a lot of damage to them.But gw wouldn't let lustria be totally damaged as it would make the sales of lizardmen drop... if you know what i mean.Cause if i was in gw i wouldn't let lizards goodytoeshoes rep be damaged.Oh well live and let live as they say(besides i also dabble in a little lizards myself-or used to)

I WANT CHARIOTS IN LUSTRIA!!!and maybe some execs...

Violatorx · Post by **Violatorx** » Wed Jun 02, 2004 4:06 pm

and besides "underway" i did participate in all campaigns but ichar IV and i am a constant tournament player.Not to mention that my brother works in GW! so eat that you"jump to conclusions cause i don't read posts well" person

Stoddy · Post by **Stoddy** » Wed Jun 02, 2004 5:25 pm

and besides "underway" i did participate in all campaigns but ichar IV and i am a constant tournament player.Not to mention that my brother works in GW! so eat that you"jump to conclusions cause i don't read posts well" person

A) Most of that info is unneccesary. Its irrelevant whether your brother works for GW, or whether you go to Tourneys a lot. Also there was no need to double-post, use 'edit'.
B) How did he not read your post well? You claimed that 'previous experience' was against the forces of evil. He provided examples to show it is not.

But gw wouldn't let lustria be totally damaged as it would make the sales of lizardmen drop... if you know what i mean.Cause if i was in gw i wouldn't let lizards goodytoeshoes rep be damaged.Oh well live and let live as they say(besides i also dabble in a little lizards myself-or used to)

I dont think you're right, on either points. It would be a tough fight, we are on their home ground, and lizardmen are far from a spent force.

Also I think if GW is prepared to let the north part of the empire suffer serious damage, they'll be more than prepared to let the Lizardmen suffer a little damage. From the campaign map it doesn't look like we're attacking all of Lustria, just some of the northern temples, and we don't even have to do much damage.. All we need is the magic goodies, we're not there to conquer the place.

but i still think archaeon has no hope against that valten fellow.Have you seen his rules!!!

Fluff and rules don't always equate, especially with special characters. A prime example is Malekith.

Post by **Underway** » Thu Jun 03, 2004 4:32 am

violatorX wrote:and besides "underway" i did participate in all campaigns but ichar IV and i am a constant tournament player.Not to mention that my brother works in GW! so eat that you"jump to conclusions cause i don't read posts well" person

OK I'll eat it if you realize that you put none of that info into the original post and I could never have known that. And if you did compete then you know it wasn't fixed.

Besides, the Lustrian Invasion itself is not fixed that I know for sure. Lets kill some lizards.

Tacklbry · Post by **Tacklbry** » Thu Jun 03, 2004 5:24 am

Another piont i'd have to stress is that the lizards would(in theory) have no hope of derailing the dark elf invasion, they are just no longer a "superpower" and we could do a lot of damage to them.But gw wouldn't let lustria be totally damaged as it would make the sales of lizardmen drop... if you know what i mean.Cause if i was in gw i wouldn't let lizards goodytoeshoes rep be damaged.Oh well live and let live as they say(besides i also dabble in a little lizards myself-or used to)

Increasing the conflict in a region is a great way to expand sales. With us invading, it is an excuse of the model/rules designers to come up with new spawnings and models to repel us. It could provide for expansion of the line and increased sales down the road.

Mielkith · Post by **Mielkith** » Thu Jun 03, 2004 8:03 am

OK I'll eat it if you realize that you put none of that info into the original post

Very Noble of you.

Ah-ha! I knew there there was a reason why England won the Rugby World Cup...

that hurts.
My understanding of it was that we won Albion as the army had just been re-released and so every one was playing with them. We had an apalling win loose ratio but we still had the most wins. That was along time ago, and we have like 100 players from this sight (and im sure there are alot more then this signed up). This will make it a lot harder then Albion, shouldn't?

Lord k · Post by **Lord k** » Thu Jun 03, 2004 8:17 am

the bad guys basically can win. only thing is it isnt going to make i huge dent in the fluff so dont get your hopes up that they are going to right out ulthuan or lustria

Violatorx · Post by **Violatorx** » Thu Jun 03, 2004 3:54 pm

still some enmity coming my way(ahem stoddy) as you see this my first forum that i have joined and i'm far from experienced in posting or editing so i'm sorry if you don't like my double post and i was trying to prove to underway just that i have a bit of background info on campaigns and that i'm not just an unresearched fool who gets away with saying stupid things.and i still feel that lustria is going to be a good fight to us and i know they're not spent just that they are not so powerful as they used to be.

but apart from that i like some of the thoughts coming from you guys, yes the invasion will increase sales it's true but if lizardmen are badly beaten they will have less sales, yes, or no? i think so thats kinda what happened to me in EOT i lost interest in chaos. And yes i know why we are going to invade lustria its for the magic items and i'm happy with that!

so don't look at me as being bias i was really looking for other peoples thought s and not thier harsh critisicm on what i feel had been done...Whats done is done and lets just see what we can do now!(personally i want to kill some elves and empire folk)

oh and underway thanks for your understanding and you have my apologies i didn't put all that info in there but i didn't really have much on eot anyway so, Friends?

Carridin · Post by **Carridin** » Thu Jun 03, 2004 4:07 pm

Well i have to agree with violator there, the SOC will be a great success for the forces of "good" as they are way over powered. Oh well, theres always next time

Violatorx · Post by **Violatorx** » Thu Jun 03, 2004 4:11 pm

well thank you to someone but i still think we will(chaos + bad guys) smash middenheim and the north empire with ease but unfortunately not the east empire(bloody slayers)