Mordheim warband- Compelation of Heldrak/Vorchild advice?

Geophrim · Post by **Geophrim** » Sun Nov 07, 2004 4:46 am

Reading all the threads that Heldrak, Vorchild, and other posted, I tried to create a compelation warband (my first!) that addresses many of the fundamental goals for a band that everyone stated. It's pretty close to one of Heldraks, but I think he was planning in the right direction after listening to everyone's arguements.

Highborn (70): Rxb (35), Dark Venom (15), Helmet (10), DE Sword (15), free dagger --> 145
Fellblade (40): Halberd (10), Helmet (10) -->60
Fellblade (40): DE Sword (15), free dagger -->55
Sorceress (55): Rxb (35) -->90
Beastmaster (45): RxB (35), 1 Lash (10) -->90
(2) Cold One Hounds (30): -->60

Total: 7 models, 500pts

Plan: In accordance with the principles for maxing out characters to find more Wyrdstone, I included all 5 as above. Heldrak's comments about the Helmet's ability to HALVE the chances of being stunned made me include 2 in the army list, although I wish I could give them to everyone... Still, i wanted to include as many RxB's as possible, so that was the first equipment purchase; I gave one to the Sorceress as well, since spell choice will be limited in the beginning of the campaign (I can always give it to one of my corsairs/scouts when I recruit them later). If I can wittle down the opposing bands while on rooftops or fleeing, I can engage the weakened groups with my Fellblades or Highborn when the odds are more in my favor.
The Cold One Hounds are fear causers, but more importantly, will serve as T4 sacrificial lambs if I need to flee with my characters. Since DE blades are cheap (only 15gc) when bought as starting gear, I picked up 2. Finally, I provided a fellblade with a Halberd instead of a 2H sword since, according to the new Rules book, a 2H sword ALWAYS (even on the charge) strikes last. Until I can get the skill "Strongman" (I'll need "Powerful Build" first, I know), I think it would be best not to surrender the benefit of high init. Please let me know what you think; any advice would be helpful.

Mielkith · Post by **Mielkith** » Sun Nov 07, 2004 11:45 am

Remember to get any use of of your hounds the bestmaster will have to be on the ground and close to them. He/she will not have a great line of sight for that crossbow and will have to run to keep up with the hounds.
7 is not a great number, you only have to loose two before your first route test. With that in mind please remember, if you can shoot them, they can probably shoot you back.

Heldrak · Post by **Heldrak** » Sun Nov 07, 2004 2:20 pm

7 is not a great number, you only have to loose two before your first route test.

This is actually key to the strategy, which is: "Lose but survive". :twisted:

The problem with Cold One Beasthounds (other than their expense) is Stupidity. They tend to fail a lot more in Mordheim (testing on the Beastmaster's leadership) than Cold Ones do in Warhammer (testing on a Cold One Knight's revised leadership of 9).

I think the Beastlash & Dark Venom are better left to later purchases (although I like giving the Highborn a Dark Elf blade as a mark of status). I would drop some starting equipment and try to squeeze one Shade or Corsair into the list. With 8 models, you can still rout after 2 casualties and it's better to have chances of rolling "Lad's got talent" right away. I take your point about the benefits of the Halberd over the Great Weapon (at least until strength skills are gained later). I felt like I needed a high-strength option in case I came up against Ogres, Rat Ogres, Trolls, Possessed, etc.

I would also suggest a spear for the Beastmaster (always strikes first in Mordheim, even against chargers). He tends to be the most vulnerable member of the warband because he's got to get up front with his sacrificial lambs and that means he takes more fire/close combat attacks.

Heldrak · Post by **Heldrak** » Sun Nov 07, 2004 2:49 pm

A further word about Cold One Beasthound stupidity: Remember that they test individually, rather than as a unit and this means that you are almost guaranteed to fail with one of them every 2 turns or so. If one fails and doesn't move (much) and the other passes and moves forward along with the Beastmaster, then the stupid one tends to get left behind out of range of the Beastmaster's leadership. This means that the failing Beasthound has to test each turn on its own very stupid leadership and it's very hard for the poor beastie to get smart again. It might be worth starting with only one Cold One Beasthound until you can get an extended leadership radius for the Beastmaster as a skill. (Sprint is also a good skill for the Beastmaster since it enable him to keep pace with the Beasthounds).

Post by **Vorchild** » Sun Nov 07, 2004 3:30 pm

Its not bad warband. However, don't be afraid to use more models. I'm pretty sure that you can voluntarily rout after 2 models have fallen, which is keeping to the lose but survive strategy (which is the one I've been employing recently - though not of my own will

). Taking all 5 heroes though is certainly key (a mistake I made with my warband).

I have yet to do anything with a beastlash (though I think it would be an excellent addition against things like skaven rats and such) but the users strength -1 is sort of annoying I think. Beasthounds too, I'm not all that sure of, but likely they are a good idea to include in the beginning as they will be a tough and strong but to crack (provided there aren't dwarfs out there with crossbows).

As Heldrak says, I too would drop some of the starting equipment.

Arquinsiel · Post by **Arquinsiel** » Sun Nov 07, 2004 9:06 pm

Loose but survive is the way to go. After about three or four games though you should be able to start thinking about picking your fights and trying to scrape a few more xp from kills.

Geophrim · Post by **Geophrim** » Sun Nov 07, 2004 9:15 pm

Thank you all for your replies!

) I've shaken up the list a bit, as follows:

My ideal strategy will be to hole up in a building, with my CO's and BM+FB on the first floor; the CO's in front to take up all the hits by filling up the doorway, and the other heroes as back up. The RxB armed heroes will be on the roof with cover playing sniper. We will voluntarily rout (Lose but Survive!!!) as soon as the CO's both die (since I'll be under 75%), OR if we manage to kill off enough of the enemies through magic/shooting, we'll go into close combat.

Highborn (70): Rxb (35), Sword (10), free dagger --> 115
Fellblade (40): Halberd (10), Helmet (10) -->60
Fellblade (40): Sword (10), free dagger -->50
Sorceress (55): Rxb (35) -->90
Beastmaster (45): Spear (10) -->55
(2) Cold One Hounds (30): -->60
(1) Corsair (35):Rxb (35) -->70

Total: 8 models (but 6 +animals for Wyrdstone charts!) , 500pts

@ Vorchild: Yes, I like the ideas of more models, but I'm trying to keep the number of "non-animal" models to less than 6 initially so that I can roll on a better wyrdstone table. If you have 7 models, and average 4 pieces of wyrdstone (likely on a roll of 5d6), you earn 10gc's less than a warband with 6 models. You have a very good point about the str. -1 about the lash though, so I'm going to move to the spear, even though I REALLY hope I can just use the BM to put enemies "out of action" only.

@Heldrak: Yes, I'm worried about the COs going stupid, but in all honesty they're just there to die and hopefully take an enemy hero or two along with them so that I can flee and get some more XP. I'm afraid of using more henchmen instead since I will have to equip them with something more than a dagger (as I did with my corsair), and as such, they will cost more than the CO's, which I can just field as they are. Still, it would be good to have the henchmen start rolling on the charts for promotion, so I nixed some equipment for a corsair, and moved the BM RxB over to him.

@ Mielkith: As Heldrak mentioned, I plan to lose my first battle just to get more Wyrdstone and XP, so I don't mind my band being so small. But I ABSOLUTELY want to build the band larger asap, so your point is very, very key. I'll be playing versus the Norse (from the Lustria posts), Orcs, and one other person (who's not sure what she'll do quite yet...).

Geophrim · Post by **Geophrim** » Sun Nov 07, 2004 9:29 pm

By the way, just in case I DO survive game one... (lol)

1) For the DE equipment list area called "Special Equipment", those costs are just for the initial warband right? DE can't ALWAYS buy items on that chart at that price right?
E.g.: So if I wanted to buy SDCs or DE blades at the conclusion of my second battle, I'd have to first roll on the "Rare Chart" to see if the item was available for sale, and then pay the increased cost (DE blades costing +20 gc instead of the 15gc listed on the equipment list) to buy the item.

Arquinsiel · Post by **Arquinsiel** » Sun Nov 07, 2004 9:31 pm

Anything that is priced differently elsewhere you can't buy at the chart price.

Post by **Vorchild** » Mon Nov 08, 2004 3:14 am

On the upside though, some things on the regular list are cheaper. Light armour anyone?

Mime · Post by **Mime** » Mon Nov 08, 2004 3:25 am

Well our starting Light armor might cost more but its got nice frilly bits that you just cant get anywhere else, so well worth the cost, read not.

Not a bad starting list, I always struggle with RXB's but I'm sure not every one can have my bad luck with all things missle.

Mike

Heldrak · Post by **Heldrak** » Mon Nov 08, 2004 4:46 am

By the way, just in case I DO survive game one... (lol)

1) For the DE equipment list area called "Special Equipment", those costs are just for the initial warband right? DE can't ALWAYS buy items on that chart at that price right?
E.g.: So if I wanted to buy SDCs or DE blades at the conclusion of my second battle, I'd have to first roll on the "Rare Chart" to see if the item was available for sale, and then pay the increased cost (DE blades costing +20 gc instead of the 15gc listed on the equipment list) to buy the item.

That is correct. After you first start out, you've got to roll for availability, then pay more once it's available.

My ideal strategy will be to hole up in a building, with my CO's and BM+FB on the first floor; the CO's in front to take up all the hits by filling up the doorway, and the other heroes as back up. The RxB armed heroes will be on the roof with cover playing sniper. We will voluntarily rout (Lose but Survive!!!) as soon as the CO's both die (since I'll be under 75%), OR if we manage to kill off enough of the enemies through magic/shooting, we'll go into close combat.

Well, experience is the best teacher, so you'll know soon enough whether or not that strategy is a winner. Personally I would be very wary about getting stuck all clumped up in a single building. I think it's far better to spread out and "run and gun". keep moving and hiding and sniping from cover. High Elven Initiative does mean that Elves are much better at climbing up (and leaping down) than most other races, so definetly use the terrain, but I think you're negating one of your own greatest advantages if you stay stationary. Scenarios will also tend to make you change your strategy based on the victory conditions.

If you're worried about equiping Henchmen, axes are cheap and effective starting weapons.

Arquinsiel · Post by **Arquinsiel** » Mon Nov 08, 2004 12:24 pm

Well our starting Light armor might cost more but its got nice frilly bits that you just cant get anywhere else, so well worth the cost, read not.

Actually that was a missprint. Light armour should have cost the same for everyone in the warband. ie: 20gc.

Post by **Vorchild** » Mon Nov 08, 2004 12:30 pm

With respect to buildings and hiding in them, just realise that as you can jump out of a window onto someone, someone can jump up through the window onto you (or crawl up the wall, etc). All that just to say the first floor isn't necessarily where they'll come in.

Geophrim · Post by **Geophrim** » Mon Nov 08, 2004 9:58 pm

You are all definitely right. Since I have Mv. 5 (and 3 RxB's), I should use it. I was thinking of being stationary for the sake of the CO hounds, but if I don't mind them being killed off, I shouldn't worry about needing to hide in one location.

Geophrim · Post by **Geophrim** » Mon Nov 08, 2004 10:03 pm

By the way, does anyone use mounts in Mordheim? I noticed there was a set of "Cavalry Riding Skills", but who can have those? Just the High born?

Also, one more rules question: on p. 21 of the living rule book, under the section "Warriors knocked down", it says that "if an enemy is fighting a warrior who is knocked down...all attacks against a warrrior who is knocked down hit automatically." Is this the case for shooting too? So, say in my first RxB attack, I shot a HE and he was stunned. In his next round, he recovers to just "knocked down". If I shoot him again in my next shooting phase, do I autohit, and if he gets wounded, is he automatically taken OutofAction?

Post by **Vorchild** » Mon Nov 08, 2004 11:57 pm

I thought only humans could buy horses, but I might be mistaken on that point.

As to the second question, as I understand it, being knocked down or stunned has no bearing on shooting.

Geophrim · Post by **Geophrim** » Tue Nov 09, 2004 2:44 am

In the "Mounted Rules" section in the Living rulebook, it says in the fluff that Druchii bands can have elven steeds (black) or Cold Ones. It fails to say rules-wise how this works though, since "Cavalry Skills" are implied to be a whole new subset skills list. The problem is, not even Empire mercs directly have a section called Cavalry skills, so I wondered, is it a new field that must somehow be acquired through some kind of skill advancement? The only limitations specified are that no band can have more than 2 models mounted on some kind of steed.... Hmm...

Actually, just wondering about everyone preferrence for skills for their war bands.

I'm thinking for one of my fell-blades (with Halberd for now), I'll go with the Powerful Build--> Strongman progression with a 2H sword.
For the Noble, I think I'll shoot for Fey Quickness --> Step Aside --> Dodge, since I want to keep him alive for his leadership bonus.
For the other Fell-blade, I'm going to go for Master of Poisons --> lightening reflexes --> expert swordsman.
I think for my sorceress I'll go for Warrior-Wizard -->Sorcercy --> then just go for extra spells.
The Beastmaster needs to keep up with his dogs, so Sprint -->Step-Aside -->Strike to Injure.

Thanks everyone for helping with the rules review so far! Much appreciated!