Two level 2s or High sorc ?

[Lamekh]

Hi, I've been thinking is it better to include two lvl2 sorceresses or a high sorceress lvl4?

obvious pros HS:
- 4 Spells (better chance to get the spells you need/want)

obvious pros 2 lvl2s:
- 2 x PoD
- redundancy
- split point cost

both options yield the same amount of Power and dispell dice and I can spend 100 pts on Magic items.
The point cost is similar, unless I want to mount both lvl2 on a DP. (Dragon mage excluded of course)

so what's better?

[Izirath]

Well you get one more arcane item with 2 lvl2s.

[Darkwand]

Take a Supreme Sorceress with two scrolls, tome of furion and seal of ghrond and an additional magic level, should you take two Sorceresses with the same items and a level upgrade, it would cost 10 points more.

You can buy something nice with the 10 points remaining!

[Kheirakh]

Yes, it depends on the situation, let's see:

4th level sorceress takes only one choise, she has 4 spells (or 5 actually), access to the black staff and she can ride a dragon or a manticore. She has also Ld9, 3 wounds and she can take an offencive item like lifetaker and still take loads of arcane items. She generates 4 power dice and 2 dispell dice.

2x2nd level sorceresses take two choises, they have 4 spells (6 in total), but they have limited access to magic items. They have 4 wounds in total and have separate points costs, so if the other dies, the second is still usable. They won't make into good generals though since Ld9 and no protection. They generate 4 power dice and 2 dispell dice.

I would say, that if you have no other spell casters, then 2 level 2 sorceresses would be good, but there's also a chance to take a level 4 caster and aid her with a level 2 caster.

[Lac.desariel]

a lot depends on if your wanting a dread lord or not, Ive toyed with the idea when having lokhir fellheart of malus darkblade leading my forces

[Lamekh]

Thanks for the replies.

Now I've got the slots and am not keen on running a Dreadlord in the list.
In my first list I've got:
- lvl2
- Master
- either two more lvl2's or HS

In the other list (ToK):
- Death Hag
- Shadowblade
- either two lvl2's or HS

so if its situational what would you advise?

[Dread_knight666]

I prefer the lv4. With 3 wounds it means her survivability is greater as long as you protect her well, which is important since she will be more of a target then a lv 2.

You are pretty much guaranteed to get the spells you want, or at least make due with what you get.

The possibility of creating a magic item combo actually exists and you can make use of better items without blowing your whole allowance. For example, If you are going to put them in a unit then a lv4 makes the ring of darkness a viable option and she can still take the dagger. I have found the RoD to be extremely handy in protecting your sorceress and unit, while also allowing her to advance to a good spell casting position. Also the dagger is more effective in the hands of a lv4 since she can use it for 4 spells a turn.

If you do put a Lv4 in a unit her high Ld will also be beneficial and she is a tad bit cheaper, especially if you were to run both lv2 on steeds.

[Lac.desariel]

in the first list i would run a lvl 4, reasons are she will give that lvl 2 more chance to get 2 spells off, as she can drain the dispell dice hit the black staff and cast pod and be effective her self

list 2 i would run 2 lvl 2's as its nice to have 2 angles of attack with magic.

i feel 3 lvl 2's could be potent but easier to control with the dispell dice than a lvl 4 and lvl 2, also you can puss spells easier that may end up complimenting the lvl 2

[Taikoubou]

Just beware of miscasts. Those always seem to happen when you have a high level sorceress. Like my friend who plays Bretonnia whenever he has a Damsal, it seems to find a miscast that takes her head off.

If i didn't have to worry about a person taking magic then I wouldn't ever take magic if I didn't have to. Unless I was playing Ogre Kingdoms because Butchers are so fun.

I would probably take 2 level 2's because it gives me more manuevers to do and to give the other player some things to think of.

[Jadin]

I am running both.

[Druchii77]

I actually prefer the single lvl. 4. IN fact, my current build has a single level 4 and it works wondrously. She totes 2x scrolls and the dagger. The dagger works best with the lvl. 4 due to the larger number of spells. With 5 spells known including PoD at lvl. 4, she has the potential of adding 5 dice to the magic phase (though this may end up being foolhardy). That yields 11 dice usable for the phase. Couple this with PoD and she can have a max of 15 dice per phase. Granted miscasts lurk when so many dice are thrown, but the lvl. 4 brings a lot more flexibility than even 2 lvl. 2s when selecting spells, allocating dice, etc. I am not saying that the lvl. 2s don't have advatnaged over the lvl.4. My preference, though leans towards the lvl. 4.

[Irtehdar]

I would go with 2 lvl 2's for the following reasons:
1. Split points. Some armies have efficient ways of targeting characters inside units(hochland long rifle comes to mind) and sorcs arent exactly well fitted to take shooting.
2. Larger reach. They can be on each side of your battle line thus giving more of your army magic support.
3. You can bring both Sacrafice Dagger and Focus Familiar. (not nesessarily the 2 but you get my point)

[Mordru]

I think the level 4 is tailor made for the focus familar as she can cast all 4 spells through it while the level 2 is more suitable to the dagger. Sticking the level 2 in a unit of spearmen is prefered as she will only kill a max of 3 per turn so you are not constantly tempted to slay off a whole rank per magic phase and it lets her support the rest of the phase by converting spearmen to power dice. Spearmen still cannot fight there way out of a wet paper bag regardless of hatred. Providing SCr is the best they can accomplish.

I am loathe to stick a level 4 in with them lest the unit get charge and she get broken along with the spears and run down or slain outright. I would only put the level 4 in the spears if I had an assassin in there and even then it is risky.

[Fleshcollector]

I have been playing several games trying both a Lv4 and 2 Lv2's.

Neither is sufficient in my experience, you should take more levels or just defense. Perhaps my opponents are simply paranoid but the armies I face have 5-8 DD (dwarf opponents included) which negate so few levels, even with the bound Black Staff AND the Cloak of Shadows.

Magic is unpredictable and inefficient so more levels are needed to gain any meaningful results.

[Irtehdar]

Personally I build up my magic in about this order:
First I add a caddy. If I just want to have some defence I stop here. Then if I want more magic I upgrade it to a real Sorc(lvl 2) and add in another lvl 2. And only after this I add in a lvl 4. I wouldnt play with a lvl 4 if she hasnt got atleast 2 lvl 2's to support her. The Lord lvl sorc is just too big an investment to be a standalone.

I personally find that magic should be bought in 1 of 3 stages.
Caddy. lvl 1 with scrolls
Decent. 2 lvl 2's
All out. Atleast 8 lvl's total.

[Kinslayer]

I would go 2 lvl 2s, so you can have 2 arcane and 2 enchanted items etc between them, and can chose between more than one lore. Personally i run 3 mages though.

[Rising son]

I tried 3 level 2s the other day and it worked out well. Losing one didn't handicap me too much which IMHO is very important.

If you take only one L4 and she pops due to a miscast or is taken down in some other nefarious way then you are in big trouble. Magic offense drops to zero and defense is severely curtailed too.

What I guess I'm trying to say is that personally I don't like to put all my eggs in one basket. Unlike some armies our eggs can't wear Chaos armour or ride barded steeds or hide in a unit of tin cans etc.

That's my 2 yen anyway.
Cheers

[Confused counselor]

First list can go either way but the second would surely NEED a high sorceress. The reason is simple, you need a general with leadership 9. The Hag can then be a BSB and you keep a slight leadership bonus.

Also, a single sorceress means you only need to protect one, not two characters from hunters. A character that is also less vulnerable (3 wounds) mostly because it actually becomes worth is to give her the cheeseward.

[Hantu]

Another item to think of is Ring of Hotek, if you plan on using that, it's easier to keep one lvl4 out of its range than 2 lvl2s.

[Elfik]

As stated before though, the lvl4 with familiar is quite safe. Give her the pendant as well, and she should stay alive for the required 6 turns. She's a bigger target than 2 lvl2, but she's also easier to protect. If you're not taking any non-casting characters, the lvl4 provides good ld.

Plus if you want to use death, metal, or fire lores, the lvl4 is the way to go, for 4 unique spells.

[Lamekh]

Again thanks for the replies!
Is is turning into quite a discussion

I guess I'll have to give both versions a shot and see how it goes.
Btw I plan on using the RoH, and mounting the Sorcs on Dark Steeds and Peggies (so no dagger)

[Bounce]

I haven't played with the new book yet but in 6th ed. I started with a Lv 4 but she is usually such a threat she becomes an arrow magnet and often died very quickly or spent the game hiding in a forest unable to cast much.
After playing with 2 Lv 2's I have done a lot better as my opponents didn't see them as much of a threat and just ignored them to concentrate on other things in my army. In several games the only I thing left in mty army were 2 Lv 2 Sorceresses and their accompanying units of Dark Riders.

[Blueon462]

If i had to choose between the two, currently I would go with the two level 2s and bring a fighty lord. Otherwise, roll with a lvl 4 and a lvl 2 and I gaurantee you'll make a dent in the magic phase.