DRs - to XB or not to XB, that is the question

Iskiab · Post by **Iskiab** » Thu Sep 18, 2008 11:54 pm

Hey,

I'm starting to question the need for XBs on my Dark Riders, it's just so freaken expensive. For the point cost, you can get a lot if you think about it.

How do you usually use them, and do you see the need? My (planned) use is to run up the flanks to march block cavalry units. Use the fast cavalry feigned flight rule to block the cavalry and keep pinging at it. Sure technically I can't stop them from declaring a march, but I can get in the way to block their path. Then if I try to setup perpendicular to the approaching cavalry once he gets close to my line, so if he charges my flank I get a rear/flank charge.

I know some people use them for warmachine uniting, and sure I'd throw them away to do that but harpies are cheaper, and better at it. Plus... for the cost these days of 5 DRs.... that's almost as much as a warmachine anways.

Anyone else have any thoughts on this? How about DRs with shields? Then have them for war machine hunting or to support CoK/CoC or a hydra on your flank.

T12161991 · Post by **T12161991** » Fri Sep 19, 2008 12:09 am

Always xbows. Sure you can get 14 warriors for the same cost (approx.) but I have always had them come through. We simply don't have another unit that (for me) can fulfill the same roles as DR's with xbows. Trust me, the moment you take em off, you'll wish you had them back.

Kiatra · Post by **Kiatra** » Fri Sep 19, 2008 3:44 am

I've tried with and w/o , the w/o was against lizzies.. 1-2 rounds of that shooting would have relieved my backside of being hit by my opponents skink blowguns.. now with, I've actually lulled opponents into thinking they were out to machine/artillery hunt but the enemy rear ranks were wide open.. keep them, maintains a versatility you'll notice lacking if you don't

Bbckamaja · Post by **Bbckamaja** » Fri Sep 19, 2008 6:39 am

They are light cavalry, they want bows so who am I to say no to them? I prefer them taking out enemy light cavalry and other supporting units. Only after that or if really great chance reveals itself do I use them on something else.

Lakissov · Post by **Lakissov** » Fri Sep 19, 2008 7:23 am

I combine units with and without crossbows. The ones without are there for getting enemy units' flanks. The ones with crossbows are for adding a couple of shots where needed or weakening enemy fat cavalry so that my own fast cavalry can take it out easier on a charge. I find that a combination of one unit with crossbows and one without is good on a flank.

Brad · Post by **Brad** » Fri Sep 19, 2008 7:36 am

Every time I've ever charged with DR they've wiffed their attacks and been annihilated, so I don't even bother anymore. Always xbows so that they can actually do something.

Balthamael · Post by **Balthamael** » Fri Sep 19, 2008 8:27 am

I do the same as Lakissov and combine units with RxBs and units without. The units with crossbows are great for harassing units and adding a few more shots where the main missile units just need another casualty or two to force a panic test. They are a lot more mobile than the other missile units in the army and can put those extra shots exactly where they are needed while still fullfilling many other Fast Cav tasks. My units without RxBs do most of the Baiting and Redirecting since their low cost make them more sacrificial.

Faucon · Post by **Faucon** » Fri Sep 19, 2008 8:56 am

@Kylekin: they have been annihilated in the games with our new armybook? because it seems like with hatred rules they should be ok for flanking, getting at least 2 dead opponents.

Dark riders should go with rbx, because it is what makes them better than other fast cavalry. If you remove it, they could maybe not manage to beat that pistoliers and go to that empire army's flank.
Rbx doesn't prevent you from flankink around turn 3. 5 points is ok.
Dark riders were woth the point coast in 6th ed., now they rock(2^points less plus hatred rule making them much more reliable).

Cheers.

Andrejko · Post by **Andrejko** » Fri Sep 19, 2008 10:51 am

I agree with having them too. They provide you with more options and make them a more flexible unit.

I take dark riders without really having a solid plan for them. Im not sure about planning absolutley everything as plans never go according plan.

The plan for them develops as the battle unfolds - that why i like them to be as flexable as possible.

Saying that, I could see mix working....

Iskiab · Post by **Iskiab** » Fri Sep 19, 2008 1:17 pm

Hum, well what about shields?

Is it worth it if you're going to lose the fast cavalry rule? My thinking is no.

Cisse · Post by **Cisse** » Fri Sep 19, 2008 2:00 pm

I take RXB's for my dark riders.

They might not do a lot of casualties, but they do enough. Without shooting, they will be hard pressed to remove or combat threats like imperial pistoliers. Pistoliers are likely to get two sets of shots before you can even think about charging them (one time normal missile fire, one time stand-and-shoot since no matter how close you are they get to do that), and dark riders can't absorb that kind of firepower. So, they have to shoot them first.

As for shields, no, I don't take any. Going back to an example of the Empire army, outriders can take bading but they too lose the fast cav rule if they do that. General consensus is not to take it, since the 360° fire arc is much more important. And outriders have move-or-shoot weapons... So for mobile light cav like dark riders the fast cavalry rule is even more important.

Of course, if you take them with shields, you can field them as a very fast, semi-heavy unit of cavalry. Perhap with the ring of darkness somewhere in the unit, it could work. Hmm...

Brad · Post by **Brad** » Fri Sep 19, 2008 9:00 pm

Faucon wrote:@Kylekin: they have been annihilated in the games with our new armybook? because it seems like with hatred rules they should be ok for flanking, getting at least 2 dead opponents.

I've been to scared to charge them in for many years now. I completely forgot about the hatred - perhaps I should try again if the opportunity presents itself.

Jarlaxle · Post by **Jarlaxle** » Sat Sep 20, 2008 5:14 pm

I've always taken xbows with my dark riders. There's no reason not to spend the pts. I figure that dark riders help you dominate the movement phase by march blocking, the magic phase by killing wizards and with xbows they help you dominate the shooting phase by annihilating enemy warmachines and by being able to shoot a bit themselves.

Besides, it scares the bejesus out of my opponents when I have 6 different units that can shoot at them.

Furgil · Post by **Furgil** » Sun Sep 21, 2008 3:31 am

In my games so far, the RXB's have been completely useless. On a unit that is largely sacrificial it's not really worth the 25 extra points to have the privilage of killing an average of 1 toughness 3 model per shooting phase (uaually less if at long range, skirmish, stand-&-shoot, etc...)

Instead I have noticed that Hatred has been an amazing strength I didn't at first explore. Over several games I've found my charges, evenfrontal assaults) are very deadly with well over 75-85% hits and thus significantly higher chances of causing successful wounds.

I'm thinking from now on I'll likely only use the spears and charge enemy formations when opportunity permits, rather than waste time helplessly firing volley after volley at my enemy.

Tigtoad · Post by **Tigtoad** » Mon Sep 29, 2008 1:40 pm

I take xbows for a couple reasons...

I typically use the dark riders more as march blockers and for the threat of a flank charge rather than actual combat troops. The xbows reinforce this. Dark riders are usually at close range, so they typically hit on 5s so its not bad with 10 shots.

They can threaten war machines and make other units or characters react to them, then move away from the new threat and still shoot.

As for combat... I have had them do some great things under the new book. They charged a unit of flagellents in the flank. THey did lose eventually, but they held up a big, expensive block of unbreakable troops for half the game. After they finally broke and ran, the 2 left rallied as well.

Post by **Grogsnotpowwabomba** » Mon Sep 29, 2008 2:01 pm

I take a mix of naked units and units with RXB. Sometimes I want Dark Riders as a sacraficial unit (redirect charges, suicide a unit to kill a mage, etc), and in these cases a naked unit is better because it is cheaper.

The RXB armed ones are better for taking out other fast cavalry and generally harassing and being a pain in the ass to my opponent.

My standard mix is 2 naked units and 1 RXB unit, but I am constantly playing around with this, as their is no right answer.

Mirz do ordas 2 · Post by **Mirz do ordas 2** » Wed Oct 01, 2008 2:23 pm

i often have untis with rxb's and units with banners, and well, giving them an rxb does not remove the spear, they can still (and will still) charge a nice exposed flank