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Slaan problem solved 
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Malekith's Best Friend
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I faced off against a Slaan today and made it cry. My core was 3 units of 25 DE Crossbowmen and they worked very well. I gave my opponent the first turn knowing his Salamanders would be out of range and his entire army advanced. On my turn I confirm with my oppoent that he knows the Slaan is a large target - yes. Great, I shoot him with 150 crossbow shots and suddenly being a large target in the middle of the battlefield, even with a 2+ ward save, seems like a really bad idea. He spends the rest of the game running for cover which really hurt his magic phase and enables me to wipe out units as required.

The one thing that lizardmen hate are ranks and a 25 block of anything is a problem. Three blocks of crossbowmen were able to face anything he had and at a bargain basement price too. I'll also be trying this the next time I think a star dragon is coming for a visit.

Oh yeah, I need to buy more dice.


Fri Oct 24, 2008 11:08 pm
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Warrior

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I agree the dark elf crossbowmen and spearman are well worth their points. I for instance always take between 3 to 4 units of crossbowmen. This means that I can shoot and then engage the eney in combat with the same units.


Sat Oct 25, 2008 2:34 am
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phierlihy wrote:
I faced off against a Slaan today and made it cry. My core was 3 units of 25 DE Crossbowmen and they worked very well. I gave my opponent the first turn knowing his Salamanders would be out of range and his entire army advanced. On my turn I confirm with my oppoent that he knows the Slaan is a large target - yes. Great, I shoot him with 150 crossbow shots and suddenly being a large target in the middle of the battlefield, even with a 2+ ward save, seems like a really bad idea. He spends the rest of the game running for cover which really hurt his magic phase and enables me to wipe out units as required.

The one thing that lizardmen hate are ranks and a 25 block of anything is a problem. Three blocks of crossbowmen were able to face anything he had and at a bargain basement price too. I'll also be trying this the next time I think a star dragon is coming for a visit.

Oh yeah, I need to buy more dice.


How did you make all your archers fire at the same target in the same turn?

3 units of 25 archers - that is 75 models in 3 straight lines, fireing at the same target.
Did you two play without terrain?

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Sat Oct 25, 2008 3:16 am
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I believed that they are deployed in 3 blocks rather than lines. Based on 7th ed rules, it is possible to for rear rankers to shoot a large target.

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Sat Oct 25, 2008 3:39 am
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Correct. A large target can be seen by every rank so every rank can fire at it. I ran the Crossbowmen in a 5x5 block occasionally doing a 90 degree turn to shoot something else. For 900 points, they were rock stars!!

Also if a target is on a hill then all ranks can fire at it. My opponent accidentally put one of the salamanders (of the three) and two of its handlers on the hill so they took a round of shooting. Then a unit of four Kroxigor became one wounded and lonely Kroxigor because they stood on a different hill. I decimated his army.


Sat Oct 25, 2008 3:57 am
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Nothing special. To me it just seems he did not know how to cope with that.
He could in fact go for lores that mostly don`t need LoS and cast those spells that do need it through a skink priest.


Sat Oct 25, 2008 12:18 pm
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He did have a skink priest...which died. His pair of Salamander packs were kept busy playing with a pair of Hydras because had those gotten in contact, they would have eaten his Slaan and his heroes. A Black Guard unit is nothing to sneeze at. Nor were the Cold One Knights who threatened a flank charge on his Temple Guard for most of the game. With the Cauldron giving stuff Killing Blow all day, he wasn't about to send his heroes rushing out to meet me.


Sat Oct 25, 2008 2:49 pm
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I still don`t see big blocks of crossbowmen as a solution to the slaan problem. It´s more like one trick pony just because the army build is confusing the opponent.

I have never tried such an army composition so I may be wrong but if the two players are equally good, the lizzi player should (IMO at least) have a lot more mobile army than you.
If he played properly, you shouldn`t be able to fire with all ranks on anything except the slaan.

Please don´t take my post as agressive one, I just don`t think this is the solution ;)


Sat Oct 25, 2008 6:00 pm
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Oh sorry, I didn't take that as hostile at all. I didn't mean to sound all nasty =) To each his own but I got the strategy from my local store owner and he said no one brings Slaans anymore because of it. You may not find the same success I did but for me it worked brilliantly and I'll definitely be trying it out again.


Sat Oct 25, 2008 11:37 pm
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And still people wonder why I buy big blocks of RxB's.

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Sun Oct 26, 2008 1:15 am
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phierlihy wrote:
The one thing that lizardmen hate are ranks and a 25 block of anything is a problem. Three blocks of crossbowmen were able to face anything he had and at a bargain basement price too. I'll also be trying this the next time I think a star dragon is coming for a visit.

Oh yeah, I need to buy more dice.


Yep, rank and file core with a 4+ save that can shoot is pretty wonderful.

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Sun Oct 26, 2008 4:07 am
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phierlihy wrote:
Correct. A large target can be seen by every rank so every rank can fire at it. I ran the Crossbowmen in a 5x5 block occasionally doing a 90 degree turn to shoot something else. For 900 points, they were rock stars!!

Also if a target is on a hill then all ranks can fire at it. My opponent accidentally put one of the salamanders (of the three) and two of its handlers on the hill so they took a round of shooting. Then a unit of four Kroxigor became one wounded and lonely Kroxigor because they stood on a different hill. I decimated his army.


can someone tell me where this rule is listed in the book cause i have never seen it


Sun Oct 26, 2008 5:02 am
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Korvek wrote:
can someone tell me where this rule is listed in the book cause i have never seen it



"Interposing models" on Pg 9.

"Missile fire from hills" on Pg 28

Basically all of the models on the table can see and be seen by a large target over interveneing models. With troops on a hill its different, as you only get 1 additional rank rather than your whole unit being able to see.

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Sun Oct 26, 2008 7:05 am
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Correct me if I am wrong but can't a Slaan use a Skink Priest for line of sight and range? Staying out of 24" seems pretty easy to me.

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Sun Oct 26, 2008 8:26 pm
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The exact question and its answer are in the upper part of the thread.


Sun Oct 26, 2008 9:57 pm
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Scipio wrote:
Correct me if I am wrong but can't a Slaan use a Skink Priest for line of sight and range? Staying out of 24" seems pretty easy to me.


Well it is more than possible, except I'm sure he didn't at all think that he was going to be facing 3 big blocks of Crossbowmen! I think he was probably thinking, "Mmm, yes, three blocks of Spearmen for me to munch on!"

It's an easy mistake to make, even if the models are visibly holding crossbows, because more often than not Dark Elf players only really field Spearmen in big blocks like that, whereas Crossbowmen are usually fielded in minimal units of 10-12 models in 2 ranks. Therefore it is easy to lose sight of the fact that they're holding crossbows and confuse them for Spearmen.

So it is possible the initial volley made him panic, and thus affected his strategy for the remainder of the game.

Very impressive, and although I had thought of using this fact to my advantage myself, personally I had never heard of it being done with that extreme amount of Crossbowmen! Congratulations.


Mon Oct 27, 2008 5:03 pm
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I'd also like to say I found the "Eye of Guiding" to be rather useful that battle.


Tue Oct 28, 2008 3:27 am
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I had a similar experience with the Lifetaker, some hot dice and an opponent who forgot to take the 2+ save vs. shooting on his Slaan. Took him down to just one wound over two rounds of shooting (my dice WERE hot!), well enough for a Cloak of Twilight-wearing Assassin to finish the job.

Great to see that you're taking blocks of Crossbows - they're fantastic for taking on enemy missile-units perched on hills. As has been stated, all ranks can see a unit on a hill... spend one turn marching forward and hitting on 6s, spend the next turn stationary and hit them on 5s. Usually enough to ruin their day and your block is already ranked up in case they get charged on the field.


Tue Oct 28, 2008 3:21 pm
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He should have stayed off the hills...:)

I play Lizardmen too, but I have never have had the problem he had. I always keep them away or have that 2+ ward save. Of course my opponents have never had that much fire power.

As for range and line of sight through a priest. It only works for line of sight, not range.

But I must agree, that many crossbowmen are great, against large targets, but you were lucky he made so many mistakes.

But good for you, do you think there would be better way to deal with a Slann though?

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Wed Oct 29, 2008 12:22 am
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I can think of a few. The fact is that imo the slann is too vulnerable currently.

A slann is either fielded alone or with temple guard. If with temple guard it is a small unit as the slann is already expensive.

Therefore the solution is to outnumber with fear causers and win combat.

Plenty of ways to achieve this with dark elves. Hydra banner led cold one knights would do the job, as would warriors led by gem of nightmares dreadlord plus assassin.

I know the slann can add fear to his unit thorugh the bsb. But then you have a large unit fo temple guard, plus a bsb slann costing nearly 1000pts. At this stage you have to remember there is a huge negatvie synergy between the slann wanting to avoid combat and the temple guard needing to pay off their points.

As far as stopping magic goes you have ring of hotek and null talismans. Judicious placement of both of these should stop the worst of their casting.

And tager any priests you can see with a vengeance. If he has 2 then he can't have combat characters (below 3000) so my advice would be to go out and get them. A master with ring of darkness leading dark riders would be good at this (poison can't work if you need 7 to hit in the first place, and multiple shooting s+s at range is 8+), and your own units with character support will have the beating of saurus.


Wed Oct 29, 2008 11:45 am
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Mospaeda wrote:
Great to see that you're taking blocks of Crossbows - they're fantastic for taking on enemy missile-units perched on hills. As has been stated, all ranks can see a unit on a hill... spend one turn marching forward and hitting on 6s, spend the next turn stationary and hit them on 5s. Usually enough to ruin their day and your block is already ranked up in case they get charged on the field.


Actually....

Quote:
"Interposing models" on Pg 9.

"Missile fire from hills" on Pg 28

Basically all of the models on the table can see and be seen by a large target over interveneing models. With troops on a hill its different, as you only get 1 additional rank rather than your whole unit being able to see.

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Wed Oct 29, 2008 3:19 pm
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@ Rabidnid
The thing about two raks is for unit that are on hills themselves. Mospaeda was talking about shooting from ground level at a target that is on a hill (which is visible to all models on ground level)


Wed Oct 29, 2008 4:30 pm
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Thanks for clarifying Lakissov. Yep, even a unit 10-ranks deep can all shoot at a unit up on a hill (if they're standing on the ground). Pretty cool.


Wed Oct 29, 2008 8:02 pm
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Lakissov wrote:
@ Rabidnid
The thing about two raks is for unit that are on hills themselves. Mospaeda was talking about shooting from ground level at a target that is on a hill (which is visible to all models on ground level)


Cool :)

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Wed Oct 29, 2008 8:25 pm
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