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Strengths and Weaknesses of Warhammer Armies 
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Malekith's Best Friend
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Hi everyone. As I play warhammer a lot, I thought it would come in hand to know the strengths and weaknesses of the armies that are played by warhammer players. This topic is meant to give new players a view on what they might expect from various races, and to give veterans tips on what weakness certain armies have.
S = Strenght, W = Weakness
I will start:

Dark Elves
S: Manouvrable armies, dangerous magic, monsters, Fast, Flexible core, Good shooting, Hydras, assassins

W: A lot of T3, low armour troops, expensive models, stupidity, frenzy and hatred abound


Vampire Counts
S: Overwhelming magic (raising troops), very strong characters, armywide fear, immune to psychology

W: Death of the General, mostly low WS, immune to psychology


Ogre Kingdoms
S: High Toughness, M6, decent magic, armywide fear, easy access to high strength attacks, gut magic,
MSU tactics (see the hall of fame for explanation of this)

W: Loss of SCR, low AS, low WS, small armies so just a few models with low AS and mediocre T means easy to kill, lack of flyers and other mobile troop choices, few troop choices.


Bretonnia
S: Cheap Knights, fast army, pegasus knights!, option to powerful characters, lance formation

W: Small Army, enormous flanks, low leadership for peasants.


Orcs & Goblins
S: A lot of different units, big SCR, Whaaagh!, hard characters

W: Low Ld, magic backfires very hard, mediocre characters, unpredictable troops, often obliged to move towards the "closest unit"


Skaven
S: Can shoot terribly hard (SAD), different units, cheap fast infantry

W: Low Ld on support units, Things backfiring, low stats except for Mv.

Tomb Kings
S: Reraising, Fast, No Miscasts, Long charge ranges, Strong tunnelers, No Shooting penalties, can have core chariots, armywide fear, immune to psychology

W: Weak on the charge, Individual units are weaker then those of other races, Mostly weak but expensive troops, Expensive and poor magic item choices, immune to psychology



Wood Elves
S: Hard to catch, tough Forest Spirits, shooting, magical attacks

W: Loss of SCR, low T and armour (elves)


Beasts of Chaos
S: Strong units, monsters, core chariots and skirmishers that are quite strong

W: no flaming/kb/s7/fliers/AS/WS R&F/ shooting phase, Low Ld


Warriors of Chaos
S: Very tough units and characters

W: Small Army, limited shooting, no skirmishers, no flying units (heroes can take flying mounts, however)


Daemons of Chaos
S: Ward Saves, Greater Demons, very strong units, many special rules. excellent magic, armywide fear, immune to psychology

W: Small Army, weak against massed s3 shooting, immune to psychology


Lizardmen
S: Slann Magic, Monsters, Cold Blooded, Skinks, Jaguar saurus (Saurus heroes with Mv 9), salamanders!

W: No good armour saves, Saurus are expensive, weak cavalry


Empire
S: Balanced armylist, gives nice combos, Steamtanks, Core heavy cavalry, Von Horstmann's Speculum, Great Cannon, Detachements don't cause panic tests

W: unreliable at some times, poor leadership, low toughness, weak R&F infantry.


High Elves
S: ASF, Magic, Dragons, eagles

W: A lot of T3 troops, Struggles vs hard opponents, as the units do not have enough attacks/strength, or are easily killed by shooting


Dwarves
S: Extreme shooting, Stubborn, Anvil of Doom, High Leadership, Strong warriors, Runic Items, Strong infantry

W: Slow Army, inmanouvrable (low movement), overly reliant on artillery


Dogs of War
S: Hard units, Flexible core, pikes, cannons

W: Bad core, bad combos, no magic items

I couldn't think of any other armies in the warhammer world, so if you see I have forgotten one, please say it. I will use this as a living first post.

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Last edited by Ehakir on Fri Jan 02, 2009 8:27 pm, edited 11 times in total.



Wed Nov 05, 2008 6:08 pm
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Highborn
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Hi,

A very good idea, though I think you have two of them quite wrong (I don't mean to be rude, this is of course just my take on the armies). I would change the two armies I play to this:

Skaven
S: Multiple units
W: Things backfiring

Tomb Kings
S: Fast
W: Individual units are weaker then those of other races

There are loads more strengths and weaknesses for all the armies (I think Tomb Kings actually hit very hard, if they hit at the right place and time), but these are the main ones for these races.

Cheers,
Dave

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Thu Nov 06, 2008 12:02 pm
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It's a good idea, but there should be more in it. You should look more into the S and W of the armies. I'd contribute myself if it wasn't so late.

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Thu Nov 06, 2008 12:11 pm
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I'd also say, that one S and one W aren't by far enough to characterize an army. It should at last get a little more specific.
Here are my opinions:

Dark Elves
S: Manouvrable armies, dangerous magic, monsters
W: A lot of T3, low armour troops

Vampire Counts
S: Overwhelming magic (raising troops), very strong characters
W: Death of the General, mostly low WS

Ogre Kingdoms
S: High Toughness, M6
W: Loss of SCR, low AS

Bretonnia
S: Cheap Knights, fast army
W: Small Army

Orcs & Goblins
S: A lot of different units, big SCR, Whaagh!, hard characters
W: Low Ld, magic backfires very hard

Skaven
S: Can shoot terribly hard (SAD), different units
W: Low Ld, chance of backfiring

Tomb Kings
S: Reraising, No miscasts, long charge range, strong tunnelers
W: Mostly weak but expensive troops

Wood Elves
S: Hard to catch, tough Forest Spirits, shooting
W: Loss of SCR, low T and armour (elves)

Beasts of Chaos
S: Strong units, monsters
W: Low WS and AS, Mediocre Ld and SCR,

Warriors of Chaos
S: Very tough units and characters
W: Small Army

Daemons of Chaos
S: Ward Saves and ItP, Greater Demons, very strong units
W: Small Army

Lizardmen
S: Slaan Magic, Monsters, Cold Blooded
W: No good armour saves

Empire
S: Balanced armylist, gives nice combos, Steamtanks
W: unreliable at some times, low LD

High Elves
S: ASF, Magic, Dragons
W: A lot of T3 troops

Dwarves
S: Extreme shooting, Stubborn, Anvil of Doom
W: Slow Army

Of course this is also just a small summary you can say a lot more about every army. Maybe you should combine the input you get from this thread in your first one. I think it is a great idea.

deadly

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Thu Nov 06, 2008 1:55 pm
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deadlydeceiver wrote:
Maybe you should combine the input you get from this thread in your first one.


That was my whole idea behind it 8) .
People may post points they think that should be in the list, and I will add them, to make profiles of the various armies. Posts like the one posted by The Buoyancy of Water are also appreciated :D

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Thu Nov 06, 2008 7:28 pm
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Ehakir wrote:

Dwarves
S: Extreme shooting, Stubborn, Anvil of Doom
W: Slow Army


I don't think that the dwarves are more shootier than empire, i think that a more fundamental strength of dwarves is thier solid toughness, high armour and unmatched leadership.
By my count, empire have 7 shooters and siege weapons whereas dwarves have a meagre 6, and while the dwarf guns are better, they are equalled or surpassed in most of the other ways. I play dwarves and i felt that while they had a good shooting capability, the Empires was superior due to their unbridled experimentation and creativity in gunpowder (see Helstrom Rocket Battery and Hellblaster)
Edit: IMO also Dwarves aren't very fun to play with, and lacking in personality, with DE you can imagine being a very sadistic and evil b****rd of a sentient lifeform, and for the other races they have bundles of personality. Dwarves are dour, grumpy,and moan. That's why i stopped playing as them, oh and i got sick of painting the same body type for miners,warrior,thunderers,quarrelers,engineers and longbeards. Just made me wanna [shout, kick my heels up an-] :P break my paintbrushes


Last edited by Elipsis on Thu Nov 06, 2008 8:20 pm, edited 1 time in total.



Thu Nov 06, 2008 7:44 pm
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Organ gun >>>>>>> Hellblaster.
and being able to put non hero slot engineers onto dwarven artillery pieces is a fairly big advantage.

the Hellstrom is awesome though.


Thu Nov 06, 2008 7:56 pm
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Shade

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Dark Elves
S: Fast, Flexible core, Good shooting, Hydras, assassins
W: T3, expensive models, stupidity, frenzy and hatred abound

Vampire Counts
S: Overwhelming magic (raising troops), very strong characters
W: Death of the General, mostly low WS

Ogre Kingdoms
S: M6, decent magic
W: Loss of SCR, low WS, mediocre strength, few troop choices.

Bretonnia
S: Cheap Knights, fast army, pegasus knights!
W: enormous flanks, low leadership.

Orcs & Goblins
S: A lot of different units, big SCR.
W: Low Ld, magic backfires very hard, mediocre characters, unpredictable troops, often obliged to move towards the "closest unit"

Skaven
S: Can shoot hard, different units. cheap fast infantry.
W: Low Ld on support units , garbage stats.

Tomb Kings
S: Reraising, Fast, No Miscasts, Long charge ranges, Strong tunnelers
W: Weak on the charge, Individual units are weaker then those of other races, Mostly weak but expensive troops

Wood Elves
S: Hard to catch, tough Forest Spirits, shooting, magical attacks
W: Loss of SCR, low T and armour (elves)

Beasts of Chaos
S: Core Chariots and skirmishers
W: Lousy leadership, no flaming/kb/s7/fliers/AS/WS R&F/ shooting phase

Warriors of Chaos
S: Very tough units and characters
W: limited shooting, no skirmishers, limited access to fliers.

Daemons of Chaos
S: Ward Saves and ItP, Greater Demons, very strong units, core fliers, many special rules. excellent magic.
W: Small Army, weak against massed s3 shooting.

Lizardmen
S: Slann Magic, Monsters, Cold Blooded, Skinks,Jaguar saurus, salamanders!
W: Saurus are expensive, weak cavalry options.

Empire
S: Core heavy cavalry, von horstmans speculum, Steamtanks, great cannons, detachments don't cause panic tests!
W: poor leadership, low toughness, weak R&F infantry.

High Elves
S: ASF, Magic, Dragons, eagles!
W: A lot of T3 troops, low strength struggles against t4 with armor.

Dwarves
S: shooting, high leadership, Anvil of Doom,
W: Slow Army, inflexible, overly reliant on artillery.

Dogs of War:
S: Flexible core, pikes, cannons
W: No Magic items

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Thu Nov 06, 2008 8:40 pm
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B1B wrote:
This post has some potential for the know thy enemy section:
http://druchii.net/viewtopic.php?t=58529
Done!
Thank you for telling me by PM.
D.R.A.I.C.H. - Know your enemy

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Thu Nov 06, 2008 9:57 pm
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Just adding points that have not been mentioned yet.

Tomb Kings
S: No Shooting penalties, can have core chariots
W: Expensive and poor magic item choices

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Fri Nov 07, 2008 2:21 am
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As far as the highelves and low stregnth go you have s4 pheonix guard s5 a2 swordmasters and s6 white lions all of these with ASF so i don't think that is an issue

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Sat Dec 06, 2008 3:40 am
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Bretonnian characters may have low ld but virtually all the units have ld 8. That's not low ld! Especially looking at other races. eg: Empire, Ogres, Orcs and Goblins and Skaven who have average ld 7 and lower.

However I find it silly how the Bretonnian king only ld 9. He's the king for goodness sake! :x


Tue Dec 30, 2008 9:22 pm
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Orcs & Goblins

S: Cheap Characters, choppas
W: Animosity


Thu Jan 01, 2009 8:12 pm
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You forgot one of the most important aspects of Undead, Daemons, Tomb Kings, and Ogres: Causes Fear. Undead, Daemons, and Tomb Kings are also Immune to Psychology.

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Thu Jan 01, 2009 8:59 pm
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Quote:
Ogre Kingdoms
S: High Toughness, M6, decent magic

W: Loss of SCR, low AS, low WS, mediocre strength, few troop choices.


I think this is wrong, nowadays getting S6-7 is so easy on so many units that..

Ogre Kingdoms
Strengths:
-MSU playstyle (Because of the lack of concentrated static CR, they can adapt a very strong MSU (Multiple Small Units?) style with bait/flee tactics that forces the opponent's hand
-High Strength (Ironguts are S6 and people usually field 3+ units of these, along with characters that usually take Tenderiser and Siegebreaker, this means S7 with ease, add to that all the S5 around (Maneaters, Gorgers, Yhetees)
-Gut Magic (While it lacks in the magic damage department (a single 2d6 S2 No armor missile) all the spells offer great support to the army - in the form of increased stat or ability gains, or by sending enemies fleeing (Panic spell) when applicable (annoying Undead & Daemons!).

Weaknesses
-Low Toughness. Yes. T4 is not high, its Low for an army that has almost no armour saves whatsoever and very low WS across the board. Sure characters are T5, but so are little Orcs!
-Lack of choices. It was their first edition after all, back in 2004 I think? No flyers, expensive point per model cost, a single warmachine in the form of a chariot-stone-thrower, a weaker Giant than other armies, very very expensive Yhetees and Maneaters - too expensive really, compared to today's War Hydra, Chaos Trolls, etc. many more exemples.
- Low WS and Armour saves, already wrote about it above, not much else to add.


Fri Jan 02, 2009 2:03 am
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I have updated the list according to your comments. As I don't have much experience with gut magic (whooh, a RIP spell on a 3+? gimme more!, haha), I haven't had any problems with it for the last years, so I am unsure about this one.
Why do you think it is so strong?
A single panic test won't make an army run, they have RIP spells that can be dispelled in your turn with one die and they have a MM of 2D6 S2 hits no armour save? Ok, I'll keep my dice for that one, and let the others go through...
Ow, and you can heal your ogres again? with the chance that you will inflict more wounds? Gimme more :)

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Fri Jan 02, 2009 8:36 am
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Actually, RIP Gut magic spells require a 7+ to dispel in subsequent turns, rather than the normal 3+, so it's going to require two dice to remove it.

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Fri Jan 02, 2009 9:25 am
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I totally forgot that :shock: . Makes it a bit harder indeed :roll:

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Fri Jan 02, 2009 6:00 pm
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I tend to disagree with two of the army selections you've made. The first one is the Bretonnians.

They don't have a low leadership and most of the knights that you will likely to find on the battlefield will have the same leadership as most of our army, LD 8.

Their characters have the potential to be absolute beasts in combat with their virtues. That's something that we shouldn't forget. A Bret lord that re-rolls everything is quite a formidable foe. A BSB that adds +3 to combat res on his own, and remaining less than 150 pts, a BSB that negates rank and outnumber bonuses for less than 200 is also great. I would argue they have some of the most cost effective to powerful characters in the game.

The Dwarves...I have to disagree with a few points on their weaknesses. The Dwarves are not an inflexible army. They can make lists to counter absolutely anything that ours can. Yes they lack speed to get to war machines but if they have the Anvil their Miners can take care of those just fine. Just because they're slow and only have slow units, outside of the Gyrocopter, doesn't make the list inflexible. If you would like specific examples on this please give them to me I'm slightly hungover and can't think of any at this moment.

This army also is not overly reliant on artillery. As an example of my army list that took 3rd in battle points as well as causing a terror to most around my store, I had 4 war machines and 2 of which were Gyrocopters. It's easy for Dwarves to run an effective combat heavy army with few war machines. Granted the typical Dwarf list will include a lot of war machines because those are the most obvious things with punch to put in the army. A good Dwarf general can get away with minimal shooting from artillery in a list because what they have can be very effective on it's own and won't need any other help. That leads me to a point of strength about the list that most people miss...

The Dwarf army has some amazing combat units. Your basic Dwarf Warrior is only 9 points, WS4, T4, LD9, AS 3+ that's pretty damn cheap if you ask me. Then they have units like the Hammerers and the Longbeards. Especially the Longbeards on their cost effectiveness they can basically gain the Mark of Slaanesh with a banner that can be taken over and over again. The Hammerers are a very versatile unit that are very good on defense and very good on offense with their GW and having a 3+ AS in combat with shields they also show off some WS 5 and S4 stats.

I guess to people who only see gunlines they don't exactly get to see the greatness of the Dwarf combat units. The name of the game for those Dwarf units is to grind you out and in a straight up fight the Dwarf units would probably win their wars of attrition better than anyone else. Only VC do the wars of attrition better because they can be re-raised.

Just some food for thought on some things that I noticed to be not quite there.

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Fri Jan 02, 2009 7:23 pm
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Interesting that you have Immune to Psychology listed as a weakness.

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Thu Jan 22, 2009 1:44 pm
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Icon Hack wrote:
Interesting that you have Immune to Psychology listed as a weakness.


That is because like some of the other "Psychologies" this is a double edge sword. It is a weakness for example, in that you can't "bait and flee" with ItP but in most other aspects TtP is beneficial.

On Dwarves: A special caveat should be made because while, yes they are slow and lack much manuerability; this does not really hurt them all that much. Due to their other strengths and unit choices the weakness of having a substandard movement phase is mitigated. It is like saying a stone fortress is weak because it can't move. If dwarves were also highly mobile they would go from an obscene army to a game breaking army.

Also with the miners and the gyro copters they are not as immobile as people think. Flyiers with a shooting attack are very special and kind of fill a category of their own.

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Thu Jan 22, 2009 2:41 pm
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Viper wrote:
Icon Hack wrote:
Interesting that you have Immune to Psychology listed as a weakness.


That is because like some of the other "Psychologies" this is a double edge sword. It is a weakness for example, in that you can't "bait and flee" with ItP but in most other aspects TtP is beneficial....


Yes, I understand that. It's very common that a strength can also be a weakness in some specific situation, but generally speaking, Immune to Psychology is beneficial, which is why I find it interesting that people often list it as a liability and think of it that way.

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Thu Jan 22, 2009 3:47 pm
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Quote:
Also with the miners and the gyro copters they are not as immobile as people think


don't forget the anvil too


Thu Jan 22, 2009 4:12 pm
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You listed immune to psychology under vampire counts as a weakness.
Your reason...they can't bait and flee?
What?

They just send in a zombie unit. It doesn't flee if it loses combat. If it gets small they use their god awful amount of dice to summon summon summon summon summon.

Then while your bogged there not able to move. They flank you.
Never ever running away while your a hoard army that can easily replenish itself is a major asset.


Fri Jan 23, 2009 2:40 am
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Viper wrote:
Also with the miners and the gyro copters they are not as immobile as people think. Flyiers with a shooting attack are very special and kind of fill a category of their own.


Actually yes they are. Having a single flying unit and a unit once arriving isnt mobile doesnt make them mobile. Anvil helps though. They might not be as immobile as people think but "Empire with a limp who lost their horses" kind of slow :P

Nor do I agree the shooting is "extreme" in any way, it's slightly more reliable but all this comes at the cost of runes and power(dwarfs got the less powerful cannon for some stupid reason). Organ gun is great but seriously, what else in the dwarf army really makes you think twice about anything, I mean in the sense of "oh shiz, that will get my unit charged by khorne knights" kind of scary. Nothing.

Quote:
I guess to people who only see gunlines they don't exactly get to see the greatness of the Dwarf combat units. The name of the game for those Dwarf units is to grind you out and in a straight up fight the Dwarf units would probably win their wars of attrition better than anyone else. Only VC do the wars of attrition better because they can be re-raised.


Sadly this is no longer the case, there are so many units today who just eat through the ranks of the dwarfs and all dwarfs can do is more or less die less quick than other units.

In a nutshell, what was traditionally considered the dwarfs strength isnt all that powerful anymore. Some struggle but that is just how it is in warhammer, every army have their bad match-ups.

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Fri Jan 23, 2009 4:59 am
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