Mobile S7 Characters

[- human]

Speedy characters toting S7 are available to a few armies, and are often featured as no-brainer choices (at least in the case of the lizzies and old VC... do the new VC have this option?) due to their ability to pop chariots and mess up small units. Even fast S6 characters, like Wood Elf alter Nobles, are very popular choices.

And finally, our 7th edition book gives us a +3 strength lance for under 50 points, bringing us into the wonderful S7 territory for heroes. I honestly thought once our book came out that I'd see a mandatory Master on Dark Steed w/ Caledor's Bane in most serious lists. This isn't the case, which is frankly a good thing... there's lots of variety and no no-brainer hero choices (let's not talk about item choices...). Our characters seem to be doing a lot of babysitting infantry on foot, which is frankly pretty cool as far as I'm concerned.

Anybody have some insight as to why our army doesn't seem to need a dedicated chariot popper? We finally have the option to get one and nobody really takes him. Does it have to do with the other strengths in our list, or is it that our hero choices are jam packed full of other uses?

Cheers,

- Human

NOTE: Please keep this topic away from S7 assassins.

[Dyvim tvar]

I use Caledor's bane on a master in pretty much every list, but put him on a Dark Pegasus.

[Sulla]

I take the lance vs VC because of that darned black coach and it's potential etheral-ness but vs most armies, I'm happy with s6 and just wounding.

Also, I don't see that many chariots these days. HE, DE, chaos and daemons have a lot of pressure on the slots that can buy them. Sure, empire can take one but I prefer the killing blow lance on my highborn 99% of the time in case he gets inot combat with an enemy character.

I think the big problem is hunter nobles just aren't that neccessary anymore. Or at least there's competition for their points. Harpies are better war machine hunters for the points, and BSB. hags and even just survivable heroes to buff our more reliable infantry are usually higher up my priority list for hero slots.

[Dyvim tvar]

That's a good point Sulla -- although I take the guy on the Pegasus to pop chariots, I'm not seeing very many chariots out there these days.

[- human]

I use Caledor's bane on a master in pretty much every list, but put him on a Dark Pegasus.

I'm sure he performs very well... I'm certainly considering one. All I'm saying, though, is that he isn't really our "Nikesaurus" like I figured he would be; he's not a shoe-in by any means, despite being very useful.

I think the big problem is hunter nobles just aren't that neccessary anymore. Or at least there's competition for their points. Harpies are better war machine hunters for the points, and BSB. hags and even just survivable heroes to buff our more reliable infantry are usually higher up my priority list for hero slots.

I agree here. Gone are the days where we need a noble to chase off war machine crews and small missile units - dark riders, shades and especially harpies have most of the ground already covered.

Interesting observations about the lack of chariots, though... that could have a lot to do with it, if true.

[Comrade igor]

Don't forget potion of strength. I use it on my Dreadlord allong with Deathpiercer, Pendant of Khaeleth, mundane kit, and mounted on a dark steed. Very versatile character.

[Master of arneim]

I'm using the dreadlord with Hydra blade and potion of strenght on a Dr. I start from the point that many times my hero comes to battle at the 3rd turn, then he pursues, have to turn (4th turn) but usually is alone, so it would be difficult getting another important charge: usually the first he does is fundamental. If the others are minor charges, then even the many attacks he has can do some damage to the little units remained. The one shot potion is great and even in other turns he can be quite useful with an average of 6 attacks. It's a perfect ethereal stalker and havin many attacks means that you use at maximum the hatred option.

[- human]

Don't forget potion of strength. I use it on my Dreadlord allong with Deathpiercer, Pendant of Khaeleth, mundane kit, and mounted on a dark steed. Very versatile character.

*smacks forehead*

I completely forgot about the Potion of Strength. Slightly more situational due to the single-use, but still very handy as Arnheim pointed out.

I think that our list has some incredible support elements that are taking heat off of the characters, allowing them to bolster units that need the extra punch. This is one of my favourite changes in the new list.

[Joey_boy]

I dont have any s7 stuff in my normal lists but then again I'v never needed it before so why should I now? Shooting will normaly take out chariots just fine. Sure the coach can be abit of a bother but a hydra, chariot, knights or just about any combat unit ill be able to deal with it.

[Lakissov]

Well, the Nike Saurus and the Alter noble are so popular not only because they have M9, but also because they are skirmishers. the ability to charge 360 degress around is what makes these "no-brainer choices". Our DS-mounted masters don't have this ability, and are thus significantly less useful (I mean, they can still be very useful, but they are not no-brainers like Nike Sauri)

[Master of arneim]

Something I've forgotten: if pushed in a narrow corner when facing a bloodthirster with the antimagic armour while the caledor's bane becomes useless (if not charging, and vs a bloodthirster it could be really difficult, and even then you gen only +2 S instead of +3), the combo I presented can still grant some damage (you lose the extra D3 attacks, but keep the +3 at strenght). If combined with the Pendant the victory should be ours.

Ps: in my country skies are full of Bloodthirsters with obsidian armour

[Ehakir]

even then you gen only +2 S instead of +3

Wrong, the Caledor's Bane is described in its fluff as a lance, but the rules mention nothing of it being a lance. So it is just a handweapon that ignores scaly skin saves which gives +3 S on the charge.

[Notts]

if you don't play it as a lance then you are a tool.

[Sulla]

if you don't play it as a lance then you are a tool.

Fair comment, I think.

[Master of arneim]

Wrong, the Caledor's Bane is described in its fluff as a lance, but the rules mention nothing of it being a lance. So it is just a handweapon that ignores scaly skin saves which gives +3 S on the charge.

it's even worse so. Vs the bloodthirster above you get only S4 even in charge.

[Uman]

I play the Bane as a Lance on my Lord on Cold One.... I'm sure GW will eventually clarify they just forgot to put "Lance" in the rule. Surely.



U

[Dalamar]

They couldn't put lance in the rules
if it said

Lance. +3S on the charge, ignores scaly skin

then RAW it would give +5 strength on the charge
What they could do would be:

(Mounted Only)
+3S on the charge, ignores scaly skin

That's the best you will get.
It will still mean no S bonus if it's negated in some way.

[Silverheimdall]

star lance has "Lance. +3S instead of +2S"

GWShop likes to keep it shorter and shorter nowadays so they even skip stuff like that to fit some more fluffy words and less ruling words.

Inconsistant annoying writers.

[Dalamar]

or that.
But as it is now Caledor's Bane is a lance-like weapon that isn't really a lance.

[Notts]

it is a lance, unless you are an uptight RaW addict, or someone trying to bend the rules.

[Dalamar]

Or just someone playing at any tournament.

In the same vein. Is executioner's axe an axe?

If you take away it's magic properties it's... a weapon that requires two hands and strikes last
doesn't even add +2 to user's strength.

And completely besides the point:
Caledor's Bane is described as "dire lance"
In all fantasy settings adjective dire used with a weapon means the weapon is double ended
Dire mace for example has mace heads at both ends
Dire lance I presume would have two long blades at both ends.

Do all weapons that give strength bonus on charge have to be lances? no

[Mistr moon]

I play the Bane as a Lance on my Lord on Cold One.... I'm sure GW will eventually clarify they just forgot to put "Lance" in the rule. Surely.
U

XD XD XD

Your a funny man...oh you're serious? Just so you know the dwarf flame cannon doesn't count as a flaming weapon on account of GW forgetting to put the "Flaming." special rule on it...... So despite the fact that this cannon spits napalm...it still doesn't deal double wounds to a flammable target. That book was written 3 years ago, what do you think the odds of GW fixing it are? 0.

[- human]

This is ridiculously off topic. Please start another thread if you want to continue your discussion.

[Dark Alliance]

Personally I think the power increase our magic phase received also has a bearing on the lack of the s7 Master/Lord, along with the effectiveness of hatred, cheaper troops, lifetaker and the Hydra.

In essence, the whole army works slightly differently and much better so our opponents are now the ones having to take builds and items to beat us. Instead of the other way around.