Logo
View unanswered posts | View active topics It is currently Fri Apr 03, 2020 6:24 am



Reply to topic  [ 12 posts ] 
Shields 
Author Message
Trainee Warrior

Joined: Thu Oct 30, 2008 3:22 am
Posts: 38
Ok, now my friend and I were talking about armour saves. He was under the impression that shields confered no save in close combat and only offered any protection against ranged weapons. I.e. DE warrior with light armour and shield gets 5+ save against ranged attacks but only 6+ in close combat.
I am doubtful and can't find anything to that effect in the rule book but I thought it was best to check with you guys.

Love and Kisses
A.Gentleman


Sun Dec 28, 2008 11:53 am
Profile
Slave on the Altar

Joined: Sun Nov 30, 2008 7:00 pm
Posts: 7
Post 
Shields always give you +1 AS, and in close combat another +1. Foe example, you have warriors with LA and shields. Armour save against ranged attacks is 5+, while in close combat it is increased to 4+. Hope this helps.


Sun Dec 28, 2008 1:03 pm
Profile
Dark Illusionist
User avatar

Joined: Thu Jun 14, 2007 7:25 am
Posts: 2270
Location: Dating a Witch elf...
Post 
aenor wrote:
Shields always give you +1 AS, and in close combat another +1. Foe example, you have warriors with LA and shields. Armour save against ranged attacks is 5+, while in close combat it is increased to 4+. Hope this helps.


Wrong. Shields always give +1 AS no matter what. If you happen to be using a mundane handweapon (or any weapon that has the "handweapon" rule) you receive another +1 for fighting with handweapon and shields. So in aenor's example you would still only have a 5+ AS in combat (spearmen for example) while using any weapon other than a handweapon. If the Spearmen use handweapons, then their spears cannot be used so they only attack from one rank but then they do get the 4+ armour save.

HUZZAH!

_________________
When I think of something witty, I shall put it here.


Sun Dec 28, 2008 1:12 pm
Profile
Malekith's Best Friend

Joined: Wed Feb 14, 2007 4:49 pm
Posts: 1076
Location: Québec
Post 
I might be wrong, but isn't it just in the front that you get the Handweapon + Shield bonus?

_________________
And the server wrote:
Internal Server Error


Sun Dec 28, 2008 1:56 pm
Profile
Malekith's Best Friend
User avatar

Joined: Sat Apr 07, 2007 5:54 pm
Posts: 2503
Location: Québec, Canucksda.
Post 
The rules you are looking for are..

Shooting - Armour Saves on page 30
Close Combat - Taking Saving Throws on page 36 (explains that you use the same rules for armour save as found in shooting section)
Weapons - Fighting with Hand Weapon and Shield (Infantry) on page 56

These will give you the answers you need to convince your friend on how it works.

Also, Hand Weapons need to be defined as such, a Spear is not a Hand Weapon, for example. So as it was said above, when fighting an enemy in the front arc of your unit, you can select Hand Weapon & shield, ignoring your spears to give you a better armour save.

Against anything S3-S4, youll still have a decent save.
Against anything S5-S6, just go for the spears to get whatever few attacks back and hope to get some combat result back.

And remember you cannot swap weapon/shield style unless its an entirely new combat, in ongoing combats you have to keep to what you chose to fight with in the first round.


Sun Dec 28, 2008 3:20 pm
Profile
Malekith's Best Friend
User avatar

Joined: Tue Jun 06, 2006 12:31 pm
Posts: 1180
Location: Tallinn, Estonia
Post 
I would like to add a it to Silver's advise about the choice of hand weapon versus spears for spearmen. As I have personally found (based on some number crunching), what should mainly affect the choice is the toughness and armor of the opponent. Against anything with T3, you use spears, unless the armor of the opponent is 3+ or better. With T4, armor of 4+ is enough to prefer hand weapon. Against T5, always use hand weapon - your additional S3 attacks are worthless anyway.


Sun Dec 28, 2008 4:25 pm
Profile ICQ WWW
Black Guard
User avatar

Joined: Sat May 03, 2008 2:17 am
Posts: 294
Location: The Spire of Malice
Post 
I'm pretty sure that what they mean by 'hand weapon + shield' is any one-handed weapon paired with a shield.

Using your example, though, in answer to the original question, shields will always give a +1AS, and a further +1 if in close combat to the front. This additional bonus is only available to infantry, though. So this means that a warrior with a shield will have a 5+ AS against range, a 5+ AS against attacks from the flank or rear, and a 4+AS against the front.

I'll be posting back shortly to my first point. I'm heading to a Games Workshop today, so I'll ask the question to them, see what we can get out of it.


Sun Dec 28, 2008 6:03 pm
Profile
Malekith's Best Friend
User avatar

Joined: Sat Apr 07, 2007 5:54 pm
Posts: 2503
Location: Québec, Canucksda.
Post 
No no no. Hand Weapon is clearly defined in the rulebook. A spear is not a Hand Weapon.

Choppas and Beastmaster's Scourge are Hand Weapons.
All Magic Weapons are NOT Hand Weapons unless defined as such (Whip of Agony, Dagger of Hotek, Bretonnian Sword I forget the name, etc)
Spears are Spears, not Hand Weapons, different rules for different weapons!

If you use Spears, you do not gain the Parry Bonus to the front, so 5+ armour.


Sun Dec 28, 2008 6:43 pm
Profile
Malekith's Best Friend
User avatar

Joined: Mon Nov 12, 2007 8:31 pm
Posts: 3023
Location: The Tower of Dust
Post 
SilverHeimdall wrote:
No no no. Hand Weapon is clearly defined in the rulebook. A spear is not a Hand Weapon.


Yep, pg 56 of the BRB

_________________
"Luck is the residue of design"


Sun Dec 28, 2008 8:14 pm
Profile
Trademaster
User avatar

Joined: Wed May 25, 2005 7:32 pm
Posts: 3170
Location: Ontario, Canada
Post 
No, because you can't get the parry bonus if you use a spear and shield.

_________________
Trading Forum


Sun Dec 28, 2008 8:49 pm
Profile ICQ WWW
Black Guard
User avatar

Joined: Sat May 03, 2008 2:17 am
Posts: 294
Location: The Spire of Malice
Post 
I checked with GW staff, and you guys are right. Spears do not count as hand weapons. My bad. 8)

_________________
Blood stains the snow. Glory to Khaine!


Sun Dec 28, 2008 8:59 pm
Profile
Dark Illusionist
User avatar

Joined: Thu Jun 14, 2007 7:25 am
Posts: 2270
Location: Dating a Witch elf...
Post 
Prince Daerlythe wrote:
I checked with GW staff


Umm... there is a general rule around here - if someone asks a GW employee for rules clarifications and then post whatever they said, the argument is automatically lost for that side ;)

GW staff usually are no more capable at solving rules problems than experience players are, and often you will get contradicting answers from different GW employees, sometimes ever from the same person.

And I forgot to add that HW/S only counts towards the front as it has been said.

HUZZAH!

_________________
When I think of something witty, I shall put it here.


Sun Dec 28, 2008 10:30 pm
Profile
Display posts from previous:  Sort by  
Reply to topic   [ 12 posts ] 

Who is online

Users browsing this forum: No registered users and 0 guests


You cannot post new topics in this forum
You cannot reply to topics in this forum
You cannot edit your posts in this forum
You cannot delete your posts in this forum
You cannot post attachments in this forum

Search for:
Jump to:  
Powered by phpBB® Forum Software © phpBB Group
Designed by ST Software