2500 Witch elf horde ETC-ish comp tournament!

Kaleth stinson · Post by **Kaleth stinson** » Sat Oct 01, 2011 3:40 pm

Hi all.

This is my newest list for a Norwegian tournament in about 3 weeks. My previous ideas for lists are here http://druchii.net/viewtopic.php?t=69244

The reason I am playing with the idea of changing my list is first of all that I have had some mixed results with my current lists and that I am first now aware of how awsome a horde of Witch Elves are!

So this list "might" be a better than my last but haven't tried it yet, so i don't know.

Here it is:

-----Lords(345)
- Supreme Sorceress; lvl4, Shadow, Lifetaker, Darkstar Cloak, Seal of Ghrond = 345

-----Heroes(598)-----
- CoB; Bsb = 225
- Master; Dark Pegasus, Soulrender, Dragonhelm, Dawnstone, Heavy Armour, Sea Dragon Cloak = 188
- Sorceress; lvl2, Fire, Dispel Scroll, guilding eye = 185

-----Core(659)-----
- 40 warriors; full command, shields, +1lds banner = 310
- 19 Repeater crossbowmen; Shields, Full Command = 229
- 11 Repeater crossbowmen; Musician, Champion = 120

-----Other(110)-----
- 5 harpies = 55
- 5 harpies = 55

-----Special(545)-----
- 37 Witch Elves; Full command, banner of murder, Rune of Khaine= 445
- 1 Cold one Chariot = 100

-----Rare(175)-----
- War hydra = 175

-----Total(2432)-----

This list is more Magic heavy than I ususaly play, but in all exept one game I whished that I had a second mage and a Dispel Scroll, and now i have!

I'm not sure if the RoK is worth it on my champion or if I just should keep the extra 3 bodies for a full 40 unit.

I think that I might try to get 32 points from somewhere and the get 2x5 more Witch elves!

Watcha think?

Rabidnid · Post by **Rabidnid** » Sat Oct 01, 2011 8:59 pm

looking pretty good.

I tend to use a small spear unit of 10/14 to screen the front of the witches from shooting and to stop them being frenzied out of position. they ignre the unit if it flees though them and it can usually be charged off into a flank somewhere if it lives long enough.

I would not run over 30 witches in a single unit. Put the rest in a dart to use early for their mayhem value. I've stopped running witche characters as they are just too vulnerable. The only reason would be for manbane and the opportunity to wound bigger critters.

The Peg master can do fine with full mundane, whip of agony, dragonbane helm and opal amulet. Striking at initiative with an extra attack will make up for the loss of the dawnstone.

Kaleth stinson · Post by **Kaleth stinson** » Sat Oct 01, 2011 10:26 pm

Rabidnid wrote:I tend to use a small spear unit of 10/14 to screen the front of the witches from shooting and to stop them being frenzied out of position. they ignre the unit if it flees though them and it can usually be charged off into a flank somewhere if it lives long enough.

I usualy use harpies to screen them. With the added minus for shooting on skirmishers and that they are dirt cheap makes bs shooters not want to shoot at them. And they can charge over units. But if I had the points and the extra warrior models i would love to not use my precious harpies as fodder.

Rabidnid wrote:I would not run over 30 witches in a single unit. Put the rest in a dart to use early for their mayhem value.

I have never runned a horde like this, so i don't know how big it should be. I'm just afraid that after the first round of combat, or after a direct hit from a catapult or after a dwellers that thier numbers are going to be small to be effectiv. But I guess i will see that after a couple of test games.

Rabidnid wrote: I've stopped running witche characters as they are just too vulnerable. The only reason would be for manbane and the opportunity to wound bigger critters.

Its the champion that gets the RoK for the extra d3 attacks. But manbane could prove to be better in most cases. Another thing I'll have to try.

Rabidnid wrote:The Peg master can do fine with full mundane, whip of agony, dragonbane helm and opal amulet. Striking at initiative with an extra attack will make up for the loss of the dawnstone.

I have tried my build for a couple of games now, and I have to say that your build looks much better! Becouse 2+save is not that much when you fight against str5-6 guys and that extra shield armour is going to help. I also like the Opal Amulet, that way if I get hit by a non-flaming cannonball I might get luck and pass that first save!

Thanks man, this is just the kind of commentaries I needed!

Rabidnid · Post by **Rabidnid** » Sat Oct 01, 2011 11:05 pm

Kaleth Stinson wrote:Thanks man, this is just the kind of commentaries I needed!

you're welcome.

As far as hordes go the bigger ones are too much of a target. I would always 30 with 10 tucked away somewhere than risk all 40 getting stuck in a fight they can't will or being wiped out by a heavy magic or shooting phase. You could even try the spare 10 witches in 2 units of 5 as a screen for your horde block of 30.

All just Ideas. I always try to have a few spear or RXB units around that can rank up and charge a flank rather than just depending on the killing power of the witches to reduce their opponent below steadfast. You can even charge a ranked 4 or 5 deep RXB or spear unit into the front of the same unit the witches are charging if their is room. The girls will still be getting 28 to 35 attacks plus the 10 from the ranked unit. You target is going to probably go below the ranks of your ranked unit so steadfast won't apply.

Kaleth stinson · Post by **Kaleth stinson** » Sun Oct 02, 2011 10:46 am

Here is my second try:

-----Lords(345)
- Supreme Sorceress; lvl4, Shadow, Lifetaker, Darkstar Cloak, Seal of Ghrond = 345

-----Heroes(600)-----
- CoB; Bsb = 225
- Master; Dark Pegasus, Whip of Agony, Dragonhelm, Opal Amulet, Heavy Armour, Sea Dragon Cloak, Shield = 190
- Sorceress; lvl2, Fire, Dispel Scroll, guilding eye = 185

-----Core(692)-----
- 40 warriors; full command, shields, +1lds banner = 310
- 19 Repeater crossbowmen; Shields, Full Command = 229
- 13 Repeater crossbowmen; Shields Musician, Champion = 153

-----Other(110)-----
- 5 harpies = 55
- 5 harpies = 55

-----Special(575)-----
- 30 Witch Elves; Full command, banner of murder, Rune of Khaine/Manbane= 375
- 5 Witch Elves = 50
- 5 Witch Elves = 50
- 1 Cold one Chariot = 100

-----Rare(175)-----
- War hydra = 175

-----Total(2484)-----

First of all, I don't like to have almost 1000 points in characters, but I don't know what to take away.

What I like with the list is that I now have a lot of cheap units to use in my deplyment fase.

What I don't like is that I have a kind of "All my eggs in one basket" thing going on here, if something happends to my WE early on, I'll have a hard time.

I'm still not sure if I want Manbane or RoK on my Hag, but i'm leaning more for Manbane at the moment (Maybe becouse my 5 wound Hydra was killed my a Manbane Assassin last game...).

(Edit: I know have 3 points left, I put in 2 more rxb and gave that unit shields)

Rabidnid · Post by **Rabidnid** » Mon Oct 03, 2011 7:41 am

if I was going to thin characters it would be the lvl 2. Dropping her to a naked lvl 1 and dropping 10 spears would save you 155 points. Drop the 10 witches as well for another 100 points. 255 points will get you 8 CoKs with a muso STD and the banner of swiftness. You have points to take the ASF banner if you want.

I would spend any spare points after that on a few more RXB.

Just for comparison this is my 2.5K list

lvl 4 general with familiar and PoK (dark)
lvl 2 with ToF and LT (metal)

20 Spears with shields, muso, std & BoDisc
18 RXB with shields, muso & std
13 RXB with shields & muso
13 RXB with shields & muso

6 harpies
6 harpies

30 Witches with muso, std and BoMur
8 CoKs with muso, std and BoSwift
1 CoC

1 RBT
1 war Hydra

Kaleth stinson · Post by **Kaleth stinson** » Mon Oct 03, 2011 3:20 pm

Thanks for showing you list, but this is where the comp for the tournement strikes in. Your list would be illigal and hard to play with. Mostly to the fact that all types of rxb are max 35 and that PoD and dark elves magic fase is much weaker.

The reason I felt that I needed a second mage is that I have trouble beating other magic heavy lists like WoC, HE and Empire. With the addition of the Fire mage I can now keep the Guilding Eye and the Lifetaker for a stronger shooting face, and also have 2 chances at channeling and always have a extra PD and DD, plus the DS.

I have used CoK so much that people seem to have a counter for it in every list i play against, so i'm starting to give up on them. That is why i felt i had to have the Pegasus Master.

But the fact that someone mentioned that if i drop the lvl2 and the master I would have enough points for a unit of 20 Black Guards with FC and 50 points to use one item and banner made me consider if I need those 2 chars that much.

I hope to test this list in a couple of days, so I will keep you posted.

Rabidnid · Post by **Rabidnid** » Mon Oct 03, 2011 3:38 pm

Yeah, i know what you mean, but I find the CoKs draw a lot of attention. I don't expect them to achieve much most days, but they they give me another way to win in case the witches fail for any reason.

As for magic. i much prefer a lvl 2 as well, but you are a little short bodies because of all the characters. If your peg master works out it might not matter though.