Multiple Hills

[Rebmonk]

So my friend's dwarves were sitting on a hill. In the middle of the table was another hill, and behind them was a unit of mine. Now providing he had range, would he be able to see over this second hill and shoot the people behind it. This would be my guess but I am just clarifying.

[Dalamar]

Yes
If he was on flat ground and had hill between you and him then no.
But being on a hill/being large target allows you to see above hills and models that aren't large targets.

[Silverheimdall]

That needs to be discussed before starting the game how terrain works.

[Rebmonk]

Ok so if something is a large target/on a hill they can pretty much see the whole battlefield?

It seems like fantasy uses a mix between true line of sight and "sizes" as it was in the last 40k (ie hills and large targets)

I guess its time to re-read the BRB again.

[Dread_knight666]

I don't think hills/monstrous creatures provide LOS through forests. And I think some common sense is in order here as well. In the games I play LOS only applies from hills where it makes sense. For example if there is a hill and a two level building that is substantially taller I wouldn't allow LOS from the hill beyond the building, that is just silly.

[Dalamar]

Generally.
Buildings and forests block LoS unless it's something exceptionally big (I'd allow war mammoth to see over forests for example)
Ruins only block line of sight if agreed to
Hills only block line of sight like models (double hills like large targets)

[Silverheimdall]

[Hill with Dwarves]


[another hill]

[enemy unit downhill]

I would say the Dwarves cannot see the Enemy unit that is hidden by that second hill.

WArhammer really needs a height system though.

Ground Level
-Hill
--Unit on Hill
---Large Target
----Buildings & Forests

or whatever O:

[Dalamar]

Sorry, I can only explain it in person using dice
But yes, unit on hill can see over other hills.

[Bad beast]

depends on where you play, in many places all terrain is considered infinetly tall for the purposes of simplicity, which means that the intervening hill would block LOS, however in other places they go by model LOS where a tall enough hill can possibly see over forests or buildings

[Dyvim tvar]

The bottom line is that the rules do not explain how to determine line of sight in this situation. Warhammer Fatasy does not explicitly use true line of sight like some other games (I don't even know if 40K uses true LOS these days . . .). So the blocking effect of other terrain is something that needs to be decided through house rules, and it should generally be discussed before the game starts.

My gaming group generally plays things like this:

1) Forests & Buildings -- Infinitiely tall for LOS purposes. Nothing can see or be seen over a forest or building.

2) Hills -- We have hills in 2 heights. A unit on top of a hill can see units on the other side of hill of equal or lesser height. We also play that Large Targets can see or be seen over "Level 1" hills, but not over "Level 2" hills (but if the Large target is on top of a Level 1 hill, it can see or be seen over a Level 2 hill).

But I know that others play things differently.

[Dalamar]

So you play exactly as I do Dyvim, and everyone I play with (since I try to explain it's the most reliable method of seeing it )

And yes, 40k has (since this edition) true line of sight... they even promote using markerlights to check it now <.<

[Izirath]

I go like Bad beast and it works, it's the simplest at least

[Dggrj]

Yup, b/w my friends and I hills block LOS from other hills, generally. I mean, what're you calling a hill these days, Dalamar, a molehill?

[Dalamar]

Raised piece of terrain with no other features on it.

[Oxygen]

We play with most of the current models for the heights and the house rule is about 50% of the model must be visible to shoot or be shot at and large targets can always see over and be seen over hills.

[Sulla]

Hills and forests are infinite height where I play. It just simplifies things and depowers gunlines a little. Playing it where models onhills can see over other hills just ends up meaning the biggest hills get hogged for deployment zones and the little hills may as well not be deployed.

[Kreoss]

Its funny how many people take their way of playing for granted. In my shop, we (generally) use the rules of Large Targets, Hills, and Forests are all the same height. Therefor, If you are on a hill you cannot see over forests and other hills. A Large Target can use either Hills, Forests, or other Large Targets to block line of sight from something. Rarely do any double-level hills come into play, and the rules will be worked out beforehand if someone really wants to use it.

[Lah di d'har]

Like SilverHeimdall said when it comes to terrain its best to ask your opponent before you start deployment, especially if you don’t know the guy. But even if you do it still helps, I’v seen a few arguments start from terrain disagreements.

That said I find the tertian rules to be quite flexible. (as long as your opponent agrees), You can play terrain any way you want using all kinds of wacky rules to spice up your games, like In are gaming group we have a large amount of terrain and each piece has its own set of rules.

For example:

The Volcano:
At the start of each players turn roll a D6 on a 1 the volcano explodes sending the 3” template 5D6 inches in a random direction

Makes for an interesting game especially with hoard armies.

[Viper]

Of course a dwarf player wants to be able to see more targets. This expanded LOS does give more advantage to the gunline. For simplicity sake and for the sake of standing a chance against a gunline Forests, hills, buildings etc... are infinitely high.

And I mostly play with a piece of green felt representing a forest or a brown for a hill etc... so can't use actual LOS over the terrain feature. I hate those huge pieces of colorful terrain that you really cannot use very easily, spent 15 minutes moving my shades into a jungle feature that looked realistic but was a pain to use. Or when you are partly on a hill and your models fall down and get jumbled.

[Aspiring executioner]

I'm sick of models falling down hills as well, I usually chuck a massive hissyfit at my models and they just fall down more often... Anyway where I play, Forests are infinitely high while we use True LoS for Hills and Buildings.