Dark Elf FAQ

[Silashand]

-Malus put your Sea Dragon Cloak.

Actually, someone pointed this out to me. Apparently if you read the books it's not a sea dragon cloak at all. Malus was never a corsair. It's the hide of Spite's clutchmate.

Cheers, Gary

[Columind]

Can someone tell me if the Hydra's Teeth and Bladewind attacks are subject to hatred or killing blow?

[Dooks dizzo]

Guys, pardon me for being thick but how is the Ring of Hotek not as good anymore? It might be that I have always played it the way the FAQ went with or that I just don't encounter spells that are effected by the FAQ very often.

But a 25 point stopper for Infernal Gateway will ALWAYS be a good deal to me.

Honestly though, how many spells are there out there that bypass it's effects that get seen with any regularity? And I don't get the Curse of Years thing, why wouldn't the RoH always work on it?

As for Bladewind...no biggy really. What GW should have done was made it 3D6 BS4 S4 attacks with no modifiers for range or multiple shots.

As it stands that's pretty much how it works anyway.

[Vissmh]

I just have a question which ties in with the FAQ on hatred and the HE Standard of Balance. Am I correct in my interpretation that the standard removes the DE hatred, but that our Black Guard still continue the to hit re-rolls, as this is a unit special rule (Warrior Elite) and not due to hatred. Played in a tournament this past weekend during which the HE opponent did not seem to happy about my take on this.

[Dyvim tvar]

Honestly though, how many spells are there out there that bypass it's effects that get seen with any regularity? And I don't get the Curse of Years thing, why wouldn't the RoH always work on it?

Wind of Undeath is the spell that gets past it, not Curse of Years. And Wind of Undeath is a spell that you will have to face with regularity -- pretty much any time your opponent plays VC.

[Dooks dizzo]

I never would have thought that the Ring would have effected that spell anyway, so no biggy to my play style.

I would try to get my Cold One Dread knight within 12" of the wizard casting it.

Really though Druchii players should not have any complaints. We simply have to deal with the spell the same way as everyone else. After our abysmal last book and such a great new book, we can certainly overcome something so minor as using a dispel scroll or dice to stop a casts on 12+ spell.

[Dalamar]

Really, just place RoH next to the most dangerous caster and problem solved.
Wind of Undeath should never be affected by RoH for the same reason Black Horror bypasses it: you don't know what's affected until after the spell is cast.

[Silashand]

I just have a question which ties in with the FAQ on hatred and the HE Standard of Balance. Am I correct in my interpretation that the standard removes the DE hatred, but that our Black Guard still continue the to hit re-rolls, as this is a unit special rule (Warrior Elite) and not due to hatred.

That is correct. Hatred is different than the Black Guard's Elite Warrior special rule.

Can someone tell me if the Hydra's Teeth and Bladewind attacks are subject to hatred or killing blow?

No. Both are now explicitly ranged attacks that simply use WS to determine the number of hits inflicted and also allow a small number of those hits to be allocated.

Cheers, Gary

[Chain]

haven't finished looking at the faq yet, but Life taker shots not being magical... ehh, I thought the point of Magic items were they were supposed to be you know magical


Also regarding Caledors bane, as a lance it bring the extra S in the first round of Combat, but does the effect of negating scaly skin also only work that turn or does that work all the time?

I mean The S of a charge with it is 7 so a 3+ scaly skin become nothing

Is there anything with a scalyskin save of 1+ or 2+?

[Dalamar]

The scaly skin is ignored in all rounds of combat, even if you don't get a charge with caledor's bane.

[Chain]

The scaly skin is ignored in all rounds of combat, even if you don't get a charge with caledor's bane.

Good else the scaly skin info would be pretty much pointless

[Faulkynn grom]

I thought the FAQ was fair, and cleared up most questions. Only thing I'm cheese about is life taker, although from playing WE, I could smell this one coming. What really bothers me though is that HE still have two bows that do cause magical attacks. Why weren't these addressed int he HE FAQ?

FG

[Azure]

Answers are always better than no answers. On the plus side they didn't miss anything that big IMO.

Only one that seems a bit wack is the compliments on the assassin conga line AND the assassin being Str 7. Don't get me wrong I won't complain but it was definitely unexpected.

-Rex

[Thanee]

The Ring of Hotek should stay like it was before.

It is. It hasn't been changed at all.

The Magic rules have changed (or been clarified), that targeted =/= affected.

Wind of Undeath is the spell that gets past it, not Curse of Years. And Wind of Undeath is a spell that you will have to face with regularity -- pretty much any time your opponent plays VC.

Hmm... I've never - ever - seen a VC player use it.
And I have seen a few games with them by now.

Bye
Thanee

[22over7]

I was surprised that they endorsed the "pop-up" shades approach where you can move a shade to have LoS for charging after revealing an assassin. I'll take it but it doesn't seem in the spirit of the game. Is anyone else surprised?

[Dark Alliance]

IMO we got an unnecessary power boost with the faq. Sure the Assassin/s7 ruling and the Assassin/Shade thing is what I have been saying all along, but it doesn't mean it was needed. No pleasure in saying 'I told you so' at all! !cry!

But, it can be dealt with by most armies. They are only t3 unarmoured troops after all. I do think we will see more Assassins around now though. I think Khaine has been improved with the answers given.

The COB was an odd one though. The attendants being champions has increased it's life expectancy, but I can see all kinds of odd situations occuring when the crew are broken and not run down... especially when the Death Hag is your general! I don't agree with the COB being destroyed like a war machine though. That is against what it says in the army book.

(By them choosing to clarify what the crew can and can't do, seems like I was correct about the crewing of other war machines though...lol!).

Lifetaker is odd. And we are ruling the opposite way for the ETC.

Focus familiar just got a tremendous boost.

The most interesting thing for me though, is the whole Assassin getting hatred when he is revealed in round 2. By my understanding we are now presented with a situation whereby troops already engaged in combat, will get hatred re rolls for their comrades who are charged in the side or rear next turn.

Quite interesting. Will that principle apply to the Hydra Banner?

[Silverheimdall]

It only applies to Assassin getting hatred because its his first round of combat.

[Dark Alliance]

It only applies to Assassin getting hatred because its his first round of combat.

Why does it only apply to him?

The rule says 'models' not 'units' in the army book. In the BRB it refers to 'troops' not units.

Ergo if a unit of 20 DEs is engaged to the front, and then gets charged in the rear next turn. Those warriors in the back ranks are fighting 'their' first round of combat. The same as the Assassin.

If you try to argue that the Assassin gets this second round bonus just because he was hidden, he was still in the unit during the first round. As were the warriors in the back rank of my example above.

[22over7]

This whole situation becomes quite "messy" if you look at models, although GW does seem to imply this is how it should be viewed. If you lose your front rank in combat but hold does that mean you get hatred in the second round (as the second rank models step forward) it is after all, their first round of combat.

[Dark Alliance]

Exactly right. Although a problem to a lesser degree.

GW have addressed a question which I personally have never come across, and opened up a new can of worms. It's the whole MR target vs affect debate all over again!!

[Keledron]

Wish I could find an emoticon of my head shaking but to add to the debate here's another example open for debate:

A unit of spearmen charge in T1 you fight in 1 rank so the front rank reroll misses thanks to hatred. in T2 you fight in 2 ranks the 2nd rank are now in thier first round of combat using the examples in the thread I should now get to reroll misses for hatred from my 2nd rank spearmen as it is their first round of combat.

An interesting debate, the problem is caused by the fact the assassin is not a separate unit to the unit he is concealed in he is part of it and as such the simplest solution would have been that as the unit was already in HTH then there is no reroll for the assassin he missed his chance to benefit from his hatred. The fact that GW chose the opposite to this would validate the idea that any model that had not fought previously should be treated as in the first round of combat.

Remembering casualties are removed from the unengaged models unless they are specific figure such as a champion then if your front rank is wiped out then no you do not get hatred re rolls after the intial round for troops engaged on the same frontage as you should not be removing them and remembering we are talking here about models but the model that moves forward to replace the champion or a character should benefit from hatred given the argument for an assassin getting the benefit in the units 2nd round of combat.

None of this is something I personally like the look of but it opens up an unneccessary debate which could and probably should have been avoided.

[Duffman327]

This whole situation becomes quite "messy" if you look at models, although GW does seem to imply this is how it should be viewed. If you lose your front rank in combat but hold does that mean you get hatred in the second round (as the second rank models step forward) it is after all, their first round of combat.

Messy indeed. i think DA was meaning that the back rank would have their first round because the back rank (or even the unit) is facing a new opponent, which at that time would be the new opponents first round which is in-turn the DE's first round against that unit. i think its fine and should be the same with a 3rd or 4th unit charging in the flanks in subsequent turns. (have to be one tough DE unit)

There maybe an easier way to put it but my brain's not fully on yet

[Dark Alliance]

@ Kel: you know why I have started this debate. It is bound to come up at the UK GT Final next month. Therefore I am looking for concrete reasoning to be able to rule AGAINST it if someone tries to pull it.

It is not always possible to rule against something just because it isn't sporting in an environment like that. GW don't like people ruling against their core rules at their own event unfortunately...

[Dark Alliance]

the simplest solution would have been that as the unit was already in HTH then there is no reroll for the assassin he missed his chance to benefit from his hatred.

Precisely, and is how I have always seen it played since the early days of playtesting.

[The skaerkrow]

The difference, I should think, is that the revealed Assassin is technically a new "unit" (being a character) entering combat. Ergo, the assassin being revealed is more in line with charging a second unit into the combat than it is fighting on an additional front or with an extra rank. In that situation, it's fairly obvious why he benefits from Hatred on the turn that he's revealed.

Heh, I do wonder if Gav isn't watching these topics from afar and praising himself for getting out of this business .