VC raising models during a charge in cc phase

[Ozur]

Had a few questions after my last battle against VC.

First, he had a unit of knights. I shot them to pieces in my turn. He charge with 1 model and raise the rest of his knights back up in his magic phase. I allowed his raised knights to get the charge bonus...but it didn't feel right and I can't find any rules about if they should or should not have gotten it.

And another issue. later that battle, his vampire lord and his unit was in combat. I struck first and killed every model in his front rank (except the lord). Then the lord struck back and killed 4. Which then raised 4 models in his unit. He then claimed these models should be able to fight in this combat phase, as they were not dead after all.

This also doesn't seem right, but his unit had not struck yet and those models were raised back up before it was their turn to attack. Could claim that the newly raised models are added to the rear of the unit, but then one of the raised models was the unit champion.

[Dyvim tvar]

First, he had a unit of knights. I shot them to pieces in my turn. He charge with 1 model and raise the rest of his knights back up in his magic phase. I allowed his raised knights to get the charge bonus...but it didn't feel right and I can't find any rules about if they should or should not have gotten it.

It's in the description of the spell itself if I recall correctly -- the raised models do not count as charging.

On the second question, I don't know the answer for sure off the top of my head, but check the description of the item he was using. In other words, when in doubt, read the rules ...

[Druchii77]

Dyvim is correct. The actual spell description states that raised models don't get a charge bonus.

In regards to the second question, I believe you are talking about the sword, blood drinker. The models would be raised immediately, but as all combat technically takes place simultaneously even though it is a turn based system, the raise models would not fight until the next combat phase.

[Desert icon]

Killed models affect the number of models that can fight back. So if he lost 4 knights, that means that 4 knights would not be able to strike back regardless of whether he brought them back or not. However the champion would be able to fight back because he didn't specifically aim for the champion, although he would not count as charging.

[Geist]

First question as stated already, no charging bonus for those raised up after combat is joined.

Second question those raised up from the blood drinker would be able to fight, as the blood drinker works exactly like Invoc. So yes they would swing, but with out charge bonus and in Initiative step.
Lord, surviving undead, then raised troops.

[Ozur]

Yes, I am talking about the Blood Drinker. And I targeted and killed the champion as well as 3 normal troopers.

I struck first, as I charged. Then the Vampire Lord struck, before his unit, as he had higher initiative. And then finally the Vampire Lords unit struck.

And these were 2 different combats. Dread Knights charging me was one combat, while me charging the vamp lord in a skeleton unit was another combat.

[Stonecutter]

I would like to offer a counter opinion on ALL the newly raised skellies being able to attack based on the IoN description. The spell description states that raised models are placed in the rear if the unit already has a rank, which it apparently did. Accordingly, if the unit had a rank other than the front (even a 2nd rank with 1 model would qualify), the newly raised models would fill out the rear and thus not be in contact and able to attack. The one exception would be the champion, since the spell restores lost command models first. The BRB (pg 32) supports allowing the skellie champion to attack as models fight "when it is their chance to attack". Since the champ was last in initiative, he was killed, then raised, and thus present when it was his turn to attack.

[Silverheimdall]

IoN specifies they may fight in the following close combat phase, so since its already the close combat phase for those raised through blood drinker, they must wait till the next turn to do their attacks.

[Stonecutter]

IoN specifies they may fight in the following close combat phase, so since its already the close combat phase for those raised through blood drinker, they must wait till the next turn to do their attacks.

Good point. I certainly prefer this rule although I am sure some vamp players will beg to differ

[Drek]

Correct. IoN states that they can fight in the next CC phase. So not the one they are in at the time of their raising.

[Kurze]

Ah, the VC. How I hate them so.