Overkill *outside* of a challenge-

Fuzzydeath · Post by **Fuzzydeath** » Thu Mar 10, 2011 7:05 pm

Scenario- Character is leading a dwindling enemy unit locked in combat. I have my unit just do non-allocated attacks. I end up scoring more wounds than there are wounds left in the unit. (including the character's)

So what do we do? Does the non-champion character end up taking no wounds and those leftovers are ignored- or alternately included in CR? (other guy's argument- since I didn't allocate any at the character)

Does the character have to save for ALL the wounds left over after his unit is wiped out (my argument- he IS part of the unit)

This nearly derailed a game, we couldn't find it in the big red book, nor in the FAQ. I've since looked again a couple of days after the fact- outside the heat of the moment, and I still can't find it.

I assume I must be missing the answer, this seems like such a basic question that there MUST be a clear answer somewhere. I'm looking just as much for the reference that I'm missing as the answer itself- both for my own education (and potentially my opponent's, who is my league organizer and has a flat policy of ignoring any answer 'off a forum' that he doesn't agree with ;D

Meteor · Post by **Meteor** » Thu Mar 10, 2011 11:55 pm

I don't know where the exact page is to prove my statement to you, but lets sate your thirst to know for now

These 'overkill' wounds you inflicted onto the unit unfortunately goes to waste. The character will not take any wounds because well....you didn't allocate any to him. It'll also mean you won't get those extra CR either. So don't go in blindly swinging at things

.

It'll seem outrageous otherwise, to overkill a T3 master for example, and then force the manticore to take the excess wounds. Heck I'll throw more skaven spears at a master then, if it means I can technically wound a manticore on a 4+ instead of a 6+.

Meteor · Post by **Meteor** » Thu Mar 10, 2011 11:55 pm

I don't know where the exact page is to prove my statement to you, but lets sate your thirst to know for now

These 'overkill' wounds you inflicted onto the unit unfortunately goes to waste. The character will not take any wounds because well....you didn't allocate any to him. It'll also mean you won't get those extra CR either. So don't go in blindly swinging at things

.

It'll seem outrageous otherwise, to overkill a T3 master for example, and then force the manticore to take the excess wounds. Heck I'll throw more skaven spears at a master then, if it means I can technically wound a manticore on a 4+ instead of a 6+.

Fuzzydeath · Post by **Fuzzydeath** » Fri Mar 11, 2011 4:06 am

Well the master/manticore example isn't quite a parrallel, since you're killing the character first rather than being the last model standing with wounds left over.. and you always have to specify your attacks anyway vs a ridden monster.

But the example aside, noone's contradicted you so I assume that must be the correct answer none-the-less. I'll munch on some crow while I re-read the BSB :}

Kaleth stinson · Post by **Kaleth stinson** » Fri Mar 11, 2011 4:04 pm

I dont have the book on me now, but i have to agree with Meteor on this. The way we play it is that you always have to allocate all your attacks (after I order of course), and the excess wounds are lost.

So the root of the problem here is"I have my unit just do non-allocated attacks.".

Again, i dont have the book here, but that is how we play it, and i think it is what the BRB sais.

Greenwhy · Post by **Greenwhy** » Sat Mar 12, 2011 1:37 am

I agree, remaining wounds are lost.

If you want it to make sense you could say that perhaps a model with several attacks has inflicted 2 or more mortal wounds in quick succession before his opponent hit's the ground. Or perhaps two different models both inflict mortal wounds on the same opponent at the same time. This is bound to start happening as numbers are dwindling.

What makes less sense is a model with a character directly in front allocating it's attacks to a diffferent model off to the side. I don't blame you for doing it, I'm just saying it doesn't make perfect sense.

The virgin forest · Post by **The virgin forest** » Sat Mar 12, 2011 8:49 am

fuzzydeath wrote:Well the master/manticore example isn't quite a parrallel, since you're killing the character first rather than being the last model standing with wounds left over.. and you always have to specify your attacks anyway vs a ridden monster.

But the example aside, noone's contradicted you so I assume that must be the correct answer none-the-less. I'll munch on some crow while I re-read the BSB :}

The master/manticore is quite parallel. In both examples you have a couple of statlines differing on some key issues; WS and T - do the example with a chaos lord and marauders instead, and you'll quickly see, where your 'silly litttle idea' breaks the game, when you want to allocate those wounds scored on a WS4, T3 model to a WS8, T5 model - not really fair

Fuzzydeath · Post by **Fuzzydeath** » Sat Mar 12, 2011 8:39 pm

First of all, thanks all for the replies.

But at risk of devolving into a pointless argument over a tangent that's irrelevant to the op... No the manticore example is NOT a parralel

It'd be a parrelel ONLY if someone made a bunch of 'nonallocated' attacks on the rider/manticore unit. Which you clearly can't do. I never suggested that attacks declared against one model could carry over to another. I was talking only about attacks that were never specified- and that appears to have been my failure to understand..

It's easier to understand if I think of it as you're never allowed to make 'unallocated' attacks. Everything is specifically a target- and bam. No carryover issues

Greenwhy · Post by **Greenwhy** » Sun Mar 13, 2011 1:19 am

That last sentence is correct. If you don't allocate attacks they would be assumed to go against the unit as a whole. I think the Manticore example is still quite relevant. I've definately seen attacks made before declaring weather they were against rider/mount in which case the unspecified attacks could be assumed to go toward the rider imo.

Bounce · Post by **Bounce** » Fri Mar 18, 2011 12:41 am

I always play if you don't bother mentioning what you are attacking then the attacks go on common troops.
In the case of a ridden monster then i will choose where your attacks have gone as you don't seem to care.

Katon · Post by **Katon** » Sun Mar 20, 2011 2:13 pm

It would be unfair to attack a unit entirely and kill it outright then state the remaining wounds that can’t be allocated to any more models are resolved against the Hero.

For one the Hero would have a much different stat line to that of regular troops.

Page 48 of the Small BRB (the IoB one) clarifies it enough to me to suggest that you must allocate attacks before you roll, not after you have rolled or after there are no more models to resolve against.

2nd paragraph of page 48 of the IoB BRB under ‘Diving Attacks’

‘If a model is touching enemies with different characteristic profiles, it can choose which one to attack when its turn to strike comes (before any dice are rolled).’

My justification is declare your target, and if you kill it and have 10 wounds remaining bad luck.

Overkill outside of a challenge-

Overkill outside of a challenge-