Base size of Pegasus riders?

Gidean · Post by **Gidean** » Sun Dec 16, 2012 7:34 pm

40mm or 50mm?

Pil0din · Post by **Pil0din** » Sun Dec 16, 2012 7:56 pm

40mm

Post by **Calisson** » Sun Dec 16, 2012 8:13 pm

I don't say +1, it could lead to a mistake.

Red... · Post by **Red...** » Sun Dec 16, 2012 8:51 pm

Whatever base they came on is the actual answer.

But typically it's 40mm.

Leduwob · Post by **Leduwob** » Sun Dec 16, 2012 9:37 pm

This pack contains Morathi, a finely detailed resin cast kit that comes in eight components and is supplied with a 50mm square monster base. This miniature is supplied unpainted and requires assembly - we recommend using Citadel Super Glue and Citadel Paints

Gidean · Post by **Gidean** » Sun Dec 16, 2012 9:54 pm

Most monsterous beast are supplied on 40mm bases. That was why I asked. Although the new monsterous cav are coming on some weird 50 by 70 base like the demi-gryphs and skullcrushers.

Samusin · Post by **Samusin** » Sun Dec 16, 2012 10:49 pm

I only know of 40mm... but indeed the morathi thing I noticed too

Gidean · Post by **Gidean** » Mon Dec 17, 2012 5:04 am

I have an older metal version of her (pre-finecast) and she is on a 40mm

Liquidedust · Post by **Liquidedust** » Mon Dec 17, 2012 5:25 am

Gidean wrote:I have an older metal version of her (pre-finecast) and she is on a 40mm

ditto, she has always been on 40mm until she was converted into finecast and became 50mm for some obscure reason.

Post by **Calisson** » Mon Dec 17, 2012 6:59 am

I didn't know they had change the size.
So Red... has it right:
Whatever base they came on is the actual answer.

Q: 40mm or 50mm?
A: 40mm or 50mm.

Liquidedust · Post by **Liquidedust** » Mon Dec 17, 2012 7:01 am

Calisson wrote:I didn't know they had change the size.
So Red... has it right:
Whatever base they came on is the actual answer.

Q: 40mm or 50mm?
A: 40mm or 50mm.

The problem with the 50mm base is that it sorta ruins the tactics for hiding pegasus characters in certain units . . . . Since they then have to be fielded to the side of our unit due to conflicting footprint.

So if we're going to assume, which I hope not, that all pegasi has to be 50mm from now on it will change a lot of stuff for us.

Samusin · Post by **Samusin** » Mon Dec 17, 2012 4:31 pm

lol not like my pegs need to hide lol

Red... · Post by **Red...** » Mon Dec 17, 2012 4:42 pm

liquidedust wrote:The problem with the 50mm base is that it sorta ruins the tactics for hiding pegasus characters in certain units . . . . Since they then have to be fielded to the side of our unit due to conflicting footprint.

So if we're going to assume, which I hope not, that all pegasi has to be 50mm from now on it will change a lot of stuff for us.

No, I still think you're misunderstanding this. There is no standard base size, you are supposed to play with whichever base your model came with. So if you are running a Morathi pegasus, you have to run with a 50mm base. If you are running with a pegasus model that came with a 40mm base, you have to run with a 40mm base. If you are constructing or converting your own pegasus rider, you can go with whichever you prefer, although 40mm would be the norm.

It's a fairly ridiculous and stupid rule gamewise, but you can see why they do it model wise (imagine having to re-base all your miniatures everytime a new model version came out with a different base size).

Gidean · Post by **Gidean** » Mon Dec 17, 2012 6:39 pm

Red... wrote:
liquidedust wrote:It's a fairly ridiculous and stupid rule gamewise, but you can see why they do it model wise (imagine having to re-base all your miniatures everytime a new model version came out with a different base size).

But we have had to do that all the time. GW originially had harpies on 25mm bases. Then there is the whole Ungor thing for the beastmen. The juggernauts for Chaos. They went from 40mm to 50mm square and now some odd 50mm rectangle.

I think since the original Pegasus for our army and indeed the pegasus for Brets are all on 40mm square that is what I am going with.

Red... · Post by **Red...** » Mon Dec 17, 2012 7:12 pm

Nope, still not getting it. You shouldn't have shifted any of those models by gw ruling. I have the original gw lascannon dudes, they came on 25mm bases. Now they come on 50mm bases. Rules as written state that I should use the 25mm bases still. That's not my opinion, that's a GW ruling, complain to them if you don't like it. Or run with rai, but be aware out its rai you are using

Liquidedust · Post by **Liquidedust** » Mon Dec 17, 2012 7:31 pm

Red... wrote:
liquidedust wrote:The problem with the 50mm base is that it sorta ruins the tactics for hiding pegasus characters in certain units . . . . Since they then have to be fielded to the side of our unit due to conflicting footprint.

So if we're going to assume, which I hope not, that all pegasi has to be 50mm from now on it will change a lot of stuff for us.

No, I still think you're misunderstanding this. There is no standard base size, you are supposed to play with whichever base your model came with. So if you are running a Morathi pegasus, you have to run with a 50mm base. If you are running with a pegasus model that came with a 40mm base, you have to run with a 40mm base. If you are constructing or converting your own pegasus rider, you can go with whichever you prefer, although 40mm would be the norm.

It's a fairly ridiculous and stupid rule gamewise, but you can see why they do it model wise (imagine having to re-base all your miniatures everytime a new model version came out with a different base size).

The issue is still a conflict, if I bought the old Morathi I would still be able to use her mount inside a unit of 20mm bases for example and use some clever positioning to rank up another sorceress on foot in the second rank of the unit by going 4 wide on the unit.

Now if I used the same model bought in finecast I cannot do this due to the conflicting footprint rule since she comes with a 50mm footprint. And I cannot exactly rebase her since I am supposed to use the base the model came with, in this case the 50mm one not the 40mm one she used to be on.

Gidean · Post by **Gidean** » Mon Dec 17, 2012 9:06 pm

Red... wrote:Nope, still not getting it. You shouldn't have shifted any of those models by gw ruling.

Oh, I get it. I know GW's 'use the base provided' rule. The original Doomwheel had no base. But now they are on chariot bases. Sometimes it is just not practical to follow that arcane rule. It makes your gaming experience easier to conform to custom.

Seems like custom is more or less 40mm for pegs.

Leduwob · Post by **Leduwob** » Mon Dec 17, 2012 11:09 pm

I have remade Morathi`s base. Its now 50mm. If GW says its 50 than its 50. My Lords dont care for a fact that more fighters in close combat will be touching them. Even if its mean our doom.

More kills more glory

Red... · Post by **Red...** » Tue Dec 18, 2012 1:18 am

The issue is still a conflict, if I bought the old Morathi I would still be able to use her mount inside a unit of 20mm bases for example and use some clever positioning to rank up another sorceress on foot in the second rank of the unit by going 4 wide on the unit.

Now if I used the same model bought in finecast I cannot do this due to the conflicting footprint rule since she comes with a 50mm footprint. And I cannot exactly rebase her since I am supposed to use the base the model came with, in this case the 50mm one not the 40mm one she used to be on.

It's not a conflict. A 40mm based pegasus will fit into a unit of 20mm models, a 50mm based one will not. So if you have a pegasus that came with a 50mm base in the box, you cannot - rules as written - place it inside a unit of 20mm models, it has to go on the edge as per the rules for differing base sizes. If you have a pegasus that came with a 40mm base in the box it can go in a unit. There's no conflict, it's fairly clearly laid out.

Now, you can quibble with the idea of different base size options being available for the identical model entry in the armybook, but that doesn't make it a conflict, that makes it a dislike of a rule, which is something different altogether.

@Gidean, I agree, and in fact I have re-based many of my older models onto more up-to-date sizes (my dragon, for example, has been changed from a 40mm base to a 50mm one - the same size as the current Malekith dragon has, but not the same one as the recent standard dark elf dragon has). But I am aware when I make that change that this is a rules as interpreted approach, because technically I should play with the model on a 40mm base because that is the one it came on, back in 1980 something.

Liquidedust · Post by **Liquidedust** » Tue Dec 18, 2012 1:37 am

Red... wrote:
The issue is still a conflict, if I bought the old Morathi I would still be able to use her mount inside a unit of 20mm bases for example and use some clever positioning to rank up another sorceress on foot in the second rank of the unit by going 4 wide on the unit.

Now if I used the same model bought in finecast I cannot do this due to the conflicting footprint rule since she comes with a 50mm footprint. And I cannot exactly rebase her since I am supposed to use the base the model came with, in this case the 50mm one not the 40mm one she used to be on.

It's not a conflict. A 40mm based pegasus will fit into a unit of 20mm models, a 50mm based one will not. So if you have a 50mm based pegasus, you cannot - rules as written - place it inside a unit of 20mm models, it has to go on the edge as per the rules for differing base sizes. If you have a 40mm based pegasus it can go in a unit. There's no conflict, it's fairly clearly laid out.

It becoms a conflict when the exact same model is placed/played diffrently based on when you got the model. Morathi for example has been supplied with two diffrent base sizes, but in this case regarding the rules you must position her diffrently depending on when and which one you purchased.

The model is identical in all other respects, but since GW repackaged her base you have the same model, but in this case depending on when you bought her you have to position her diffrently in a unit. This really becomes a problem, especially in tournament play since people would argue you cannot take advantage of the rules with the new model and rebase her to her old model.

And as far as I know, morathi is the only monstrous cavalry that comes with a 50mm monster base. All of a sudden you are at a certain disadvantage with the new model since you got the new model with a bigger footprint that doesn't synergize as well with the rest of your armys footprint.

And even weirder, have two models of her but from diffrent releases where both are used as count as Sorceresses on Dark Pegasi, where one is allowed to be placed in a unit in a particular manner but the other isn't since she is on a larger base and cannot be rebased to match the other models footprint.

Then it does become a conflict since in all other aspects the models are identical, but you cannot play them in an identical manner based on when you bought the model.

Red... · Post by **Red...** » Tue Dec 18, 2012 1:43 am

I can only really repeat again, whatever base the model came on is the one it has to be played with, even if its an identical model that has been repackaged. The sequence is - you buy the model and you glue it onto the base that it came with it in the packet. That is the model's base size, and the rules are applied to the model according to that base size (i.e. a 40mm base model can go in a unit of 20mm ones, a 50mm base model must go on the outside). Thos all occurs regardless of what base size the identical model may have had in an earlier release - the base size that the actual physical model that you purchased came with in its packet is the base size that the model has.

That's not my rule, it's GW's one. Complain about it being a conflict or unfair etc all you want, but the rule is the rule and it's clear. I'll stop contributing here.

Liquidedust · Post by **Liquidedust** » Tue Dec 18, 2012 2:04 am

Red... wrote:I can only really repeat again, whatever base the model came on is the one it has to be played with, even if its an identical model that has been repackaged. The sequence is - you buy the model and you glue it onto the base that it came with it in the packet. That is the model's base size, and the rules are applied to the model according to that base size (i.e. a 40mm base model can go in a unit of 20mm ones, a 50mm base model must go on the outside). Thos all occurs regardless of what base size the identical model may have had in an earlier release - the base size that the actual physical model that you purchased came with in its packet is the base size that the model has.

That's not my rule, it's GW's one. Complain about it being a conflict or unfair etc all you want, but the rule is the rule and it's clear. I'll stop contributing here.

Games Workshop wrote:Any conversions should be clearly obvious as to what they are, and be the same size as the
Citadel miniature sold.

So since there are only one model with a Dark Pegasus sold, and it is on a 50mm base I now have to rebase all my Dark Pegasi Lords and Masters conversions from 40mm to 50mm?

Red... · Post by **Red...** » Tue Dec 18, 2012 2:17 am

The conversion quote you've pulled refers to conversions, not older models because older models are still legal. So it's irrelevant here. Your models go on the bases they came with in their original GW box and that is their base size for the rules, regardless of any and all other releases (before or after) of a model for that same model entry in the army book. I don't get why this is so confusing. I really am going to stop replying this time, we're moving into troll zone.

Gidean · Post by **Gidean** » Tue Dec 18, 2012 5:46 am

Red... wrote:I can only really repeat again, whatever base the model came on is the one it has to be played with, even if its an identical model that has been repackaged. The sequence is - you buy the model and you glue it onto the base that it came with it in the packet. That is the model's base size, and the rules are applied to the model according to that base size (i.e. a 40mm base model can go in a unit of 20mm ones, a 50mm base model must go on the outside).

But what if you buy a new Morathi and sneak her onto an old base? How will your opponent know? Pick her up and if she is resin you are a cheater?

L1qw1d · Post by **L1qw1d** » Tue Dec 18, 2012 7:25 am

Yes, but we're Dark Elves so it will be expected :lol: