Thoughts on the new Cold One Knights and the ASF banner

Deadlydeception · Post by **Deadlydeception** » Mon Jul 28, 2008 3:21 am

After ordering a box of CoK on Ebay and eagerly dreaming up tactics I came up with an interesting idea for them. What if I was to use this unit defensively?
Basically, the plan is to give them the ASF banner, then plop them down in front of an enemy unit. As I don't quite have the book yet I'm not sure if the CoK sergeant can get the dragon egg item, but if he could it wound definitely be used here.
In the enemies turn, he will probably want to charge the knights to avoid being charged himself.

Some simple math-hammer has shown me that the 11 strength 4 attacks that the CoK can dish out can effectively stop most of the average enemy infantry. The Cok might even win the combat. Judicious use of the cauldron can make a victory even more likely.
Another benefit of the ASF banner is it can work as a bit of insurance policy for the CoK. If stupidity sends you wandering out in front of a bunch of empire militia, who cares. Your 11 attacks butcher the poor fools if they charge you.
Obviously, this trick doesn't really work against certain units. Anything with a good armour save or high toughness will be a problem. Ranked infantry are also tough to survive through.

Do you guys think that this is worth doing? I would probably still use the unit offensively most of the time, but perhaps this trick could be another ace up the druchii players' sleeve.
Comments are appreciated.

Crawd · Post by **Crawd** » Mon Jul 28, 2008 11:04 am

I would use the AP banner instead, you rarely want them to get a charge anyway and you'll be charging instead, so with the AP battle, if the battle stand more than 1 round, you'll still be able to wound the ennemies with it.

Emperorpenguin · Post by **Emperorpenguin** » Mon Jul 28, 2008 11:24 am

Well you can't give him the Dragon egg, it's too expensive I'm afraid

Personally I feel there are better units to give the ASF banner to but it would help if they get charged (which they will by faster cavalry)

Try it out versus Dragon Princes

Amarel · Post by **Amarel** » Mon Jul 28, 2008 11:31 am

My issues with COK aside, I think they're much better when used aggresively (when you consider their movement value and charge bonuses). Added to thisj I think there are much better units to use the ASF banner on (Executioners for example, who don't suffer from decreased attack strength when not charging).

Joyfulcheese · Post by **Joyfulcheese** » Mon Jul 28, 2008 11:56 am

ASF Banner and Executioners are a great combo. With killing blow and strength 5 (or 6 haven't book on hand) they're fantastic for taking down large number of enemies whether charging or being charged. Tie a unit long enough and you could get some COK's or WE's in on the flank to finish them off.

Crawd · Post by **Crawd** » Mon Jul 28, 2008 12:07 pm

ASF with Executionners is indeed a nice combo but the combo cost too much to worth it, in my opinion.

Since you have to pay the Executionners, let's say 10 to worth it. That's already 110 points.

Since you can't have the banner due to the banner point limitation, you need a BSB. You have to take the Hag BSB, because of Khainite rule, which cost 140 points.

Now you have a 250 points unit that has 11 models in it which no other options and that are really fragile.

For the almost same price, you can have a block of 15 Black Guard FC with the ASF banner with a Ring of Hotek or Crimson Death on the Champion.

Joyfulcheese · Post by **Joyfulcheese** » Mon Jul 28, 2008 12:12 pm

Fair point, good thing I've both units in my army then

Will have to try the BG ASF combo this week and see how it works out.

Emperorpenguin · Post by **Emperorpenguin** » Mon Jul 28, 2008 12:13 pm

120 points for the basic executioners, so more expensive! lol

Narius phinshredder · Mon Jul 28, 2008 12:53 pm

The ASF banner (Standard of Hag Graef) costs 35pts, The executioners can only take a 25pt banner! Says so in the rules, the only units that can take it are COK, Black Guard and the BSB.

Sorry, Just read the comment left earlier which says pretty much what I just said! :shock:

Amarel · Post by **Amarel** » Mon Jul 28, 2008 2:14 pm

Narius Phinshredder wrote:The ASF banner (Standard of Hag Graef) costs 35pts, The executioners can only take a 25pt banner! Says so in the rules, the only units that can take it are COK, Black Guard and the BSB.

Sorry, Just read the comment left earlier which says pretty much what I just said!

The use of a BSB to carry the ASF banner in the Execs is assumed. The fact that they need the BSB doesn't mean that it's not a better marriage than using the ASF on the COK.

Greynightmare · Post by **Greynightmare** » Mon Jul 28, 2008 3:08 pm

:/ I like the idea of using it defensively...
But I wouldn't use it on CoK...
Most definatly useful on Black Guard but you WANT CoK to charge with lances they can take down almost anything...

With 6th edtion CoK I charged 7 into a unit of 6 Ogre Bulls and lost none...

But the ogres routed after first phase and were run down...
:badh:

GO Cold One Knights!!!

Lodark · Post by **Lodark** » Mon Jul 28, 2008 6:32 pm

I might take CoKs with that banner, just to see my opponent's face when I kill all his ASF infantry first...

Post by **Grogsnotpowwabomba** » Mon Jul 28, 2008 6:49 pm

Its a decent idea, but I think the Black Guard with the same banner and tactic is a WAY better choice.

Standard of Slaughter and Banner of Cold Blood (and Hydra Banner with BSB) are the ways to go with Cold One Knights...

Dread_knight666 · Post by **Dread_knight666** » Mon Jul 28, 2008 7:30 pm

There is some merit to this idea especially considering CO stupidity. It all comes down to unit placement and I think if you were going to try and play a defensive roll, you might want to give the champion crimson death or include a master in the unit. Then you can lure in weaker units who fear the CO charge but will still be defeated regardless, then overrun into something else. This way you don't have to rely on the charge in order to get the ball rolling. The ASF banner will help you win defensive battles and give the unit a little safety from their own stupidity.

Colonel · Post by **Colonel** » Mon Jul 28, 2008 8:48 pm

ASF banner on CoK plus a Hydra banner on BSB on coldone.. thats 20 something S4 ASF attacks with hatred! You can park that in front of most anything, just dont give up a flank

Bounce · Post by **Bounce** » Mon Jul 28, 2008 11:12 pm

ASF banner on the COK's seems a waste, they are the units in our army that gain the most from actually charging due to their lances. While S$ is pretty good on the defensive. S6 is a lot better on the offensive. This also means they won't be standing around getting hit by cannons or magic that ignores armour saves. Even normal archery can take its toll on COK's as there are so few of them.
You only have to roll 2 1's and they might panic and flee the field.

Mordru · Post by **Mordru** » Tue Jul 29, 2008 12:28 am

I am not likely to run it as my units of cold one knights are almost always 5-6 models and usually naked.

I used 6 with banner of murder in 6th edition. This time around its going to be 5-6 naked knights most of the time and occasionally standard of slaughter. I agree it might be a blast to take against HE just for fun.

Bounce · Post by **Bounce** » Tue Jul 29, 2008 2:44 am

If you knew you were playing High Elves than it would definitly be worth it. Especially when attacking swordmasters or White Lions which could normally chop downh a couple of your knights before they can even attack!
Against all other armies though you wouldn't need it as much.

Deadlydeception · Post by **Deadlydeception** » Tue Jul 29, 2008 6:04 am

"ASF banner on the COK's seems a waste, they are the units in our army that gain the most from actually charging due to their lances." -Bounce

This seems to be the general consensus above. I still think it could work once or twice though. The reason to use CoK for this instead of black guard is because of the unexpectedness of it all. Also, i do plan on fighting high elves regularly, so I get good use of it here.

It would be awesome to see the look on an opponent's face when my hardest hitting unit chooses to stop in front of him though...

Faulkynn grom · Post by **Faulkynn grom** » Tue Jul 29, 2008 7:06 am

I think Standard of Slaughter is best for cold one knights. On the charge they'll destroy most things, so ASF shouldn't come into play. +1-3 CR is always usefull, and will help guarantee the win. Think "War Banner Plus". If you can overrun consistently, you'll gain the benefits of this 4-5 times a game.

FG

Poisonblade · Post by **Poisonblade** » Tue Jul 29, 2008 2:11 pm

I would only use the ASF banner on COK if the following 2 conditions are met:
1) I'm not taking Black Guard (it's just too nice on them)
2) I'm taking Malus. I like to think of ASF as a defensive item for Malus, he should have no problems clearing his base.

I'm going to try running 2 units of COKs in the future. One with BSB with Hydra banner, and the cold blooded banner on the unit std bearer. And the other unit with my Dreadlord and the +d3 combat resolution banner. That should give me 2 very hard hitting hammers.

Gastronauticon · Post by **Gastronauticon** » Tue Jul 29, 2008 2:37 pm

If you can overrun consistently, you'll gain the benefits of this 4-5 times a game.

Is the Standard of Slaugther not one use only anymore?

No one · Post by **No one** » Tue Jul 29, 2008 3:31 pm

Gastronauticon wrote:
If you can overrun consistently, you'll gain the benefits of this 4-5 times a game.

Is the Standard of Slaugther not one use only anymore?

nope, nice isn't it?
i think it's a good idea however i would prefer it on my black guard as they will need it more becouse their armoursave is so low.

Draln · Post by **Draln** » Tue Jul 29, 2008 3:58 pm

I think this idea has merit against high elves, but in most other cases I think the ASF banner fits in better with the Black Guard.

Konrad von richtmark · Tue Jul 29, 2008 4:04 pm

While those S4 attacks can indeed accomplish things, relying on them is to discard the charge bonus of the lances, throwing an offensive asset to the wind.

Also, what do you really gain by getting to strike first? The kind of weak troops you'd butcher with a flurry of S4 attacks usually don't have much chance of injuring the CoKs with their 2+ save anyway. The order in which blows are struck only matters if those who strike later are at a risk of dying from guys who strike earlier.

Thoughts on the new Cold One Knights and the ASF banner

Thoughts on the new Cold One Knights and the ASF banner

Re: Thoughts on the new Cold One Knights and the ASF banner