What? A manticore?

Farsighteds · Post by **Farsighteds** » Fri Aug 15, 2008 11:03 pm

Hello everyone. I'm a bit new to Dark elves and I'm trying to get a sense of what works. I know that I am going to use more of the core choices than elite that this army has to offer, but I do want to use there monstrous creatures. The dilemma that I have is about the manticore. I like the model and would like to use it, but the problem that I have is that it doesn't have any form of defense. Absolutly nothing for armor. That's a tad bit risky in my book considering that the mount would cost me 200 points.

The question I have for you guys is 1. Why do you guys use a manticore? 2. What kinds of things do you equip to your rider or do in the game in order to keep his fragil hide from getting shot up before he gets into combat? and 3. Has this mount been effective in your experience as a dark elf player and what kind of purpose does it normally perform in your army?

Thanks for all opinions and advice

Gibious · Post by **Gibious** » Fri Aug 15, 2008 11:14 pm

Because its big and powerful, and we druchii love power. Not matter the risks or costs, for we are above it all

Basicaly a mini dragon that heros can ride, I like it for flanking of course being US-5 it can do a fair bit of damage

Druchii77 · Post by **Druchii77** » Fri Aug 15, 2008 11:37 pm

The manticore is actually a very viable mount option especially as it is a power mount for a master to take to battle. The key to playing well with a hydra is positioning. You need terrain to keep him out of the way of missile fire and magic. You also have to be patient as this guy rarely will charge before turns 3-4. The good things about him are S5, killing blow, fly rules, and terror. These things if used correctly are deadly.

Mr. anderson · Post by **Mr. anderson** » Sat Aug 16, 2008 12:06 am

Moved to tactics due to content.

If anyone disagrees, feel free to pm me.

Gastronauticon · Post by **Gastronauticon** » Sat Aug 16, 2008 12:35 am

If the Pendant is used elsewhere, the Ring of Darkness is practically tailor made for the MoM. A tad expencive but half WS/BS against the whole model is nifty and this guy can do well with mundane gear anyways.

Or go for Hydra Blade in an army containing a CoB. 8-10 Attacks (10-12 if Uncontrolable...) with hated and KB. Also nifty.

Demetrius · Post by **Demetrius** » Sat Aug 16, 2008 1:57 am

In my new 1500 point list for an upcoming tourny, Im using a Master on Manticore with HA/SDC/SH and Sword of Might.

Last night I had a practise game against the guy who got me into Fantasy, he's been playing for almost 10 years. He plays VCs and I have never beaten him before. Last night was a different story. My Master and Manticore single handedly chewed up a full unit of zombies then moved in for my opponents command unit which was 10 skeletons, Manfred and 2 mages. He killed the whole unit, slaying Manfred first round of combat through a challenge. Straight after, his whole army crumbled, and I won solidly. Throughout the game, niether the Master or Manticore took even a wound.

I have never used my Manticore before as I only recently bought it. However, it has definitely earned it's place in my army and Im hoping it performs just as well in the tournement.

In conclusion, in 2k or less, Manticores are definitely worth it.

Dggrj · Post by **Dggrj** » Sat Aug 16, 2008 6:25 am

Now things to note there so that you don't overhype the manticore (though I like it) are:

VC have no shooting, so it needn't fear that, though there is the rod of flaming death and the one MM in vampiric lore, as well as maybe one other bound item, but all of these can be dispelled (saving IF, of course).

Mannfred has no regen, ward, or armor save, unless mounted, and his AS is ignored by your manti and master. (holy crap the abyssal terror is good for its cost, just saw that)

My dreadlord on manticore combined did only 1 wound (through some unluckiness, granted) to a Bretonnian champion in challenge.

And don't count on plowing through too large a unit of zombies on average. 7-8 attacks that should just about all wound minus a couple ranks means maybe 11 will die to that charge, maybe 8,9.

But yes, now that we have a real hero, not a crap hero, on the manti, its very exciting!

The adept · Post by **The adept** » Sat Aug 16, 2008 9:37 am

The main threat to any Big Flying Beasty (BFB for short) is war machines. Bolt throwers, cannon and stone throwers all have the strength to hurt the BFB, deal multiple wounds, and don't allow an armour save. Combined with the large base/large target, they have a fair chance of hitting. Against these weapons, the dragon doesn't have any defence either (beyond having more wounds).

The only thing that the manticore has to watch out for, beyond what the dragon has to watch out for, is massed low strength shooting. Between the ring of darkness and careful positioning (use of cover/making shooters turn to see it, imposing -1), you should be able to avoid that. Then get yourself into combat, where it's safe!

And you should be breaking its targets on the charge, and killing everything in bases contact. This should mean melee attacks back aren't too much of an issue as well.

Kierath heartshard · Post by **Kierath heartshard** » Sat Aug 16, 2008 9:39 am

My Dreadlord on Manticore was utterly destroyed by two (count 'em) Lion Chariots. The first killed the Lord, then was mauled by the Manti. Then the second charged in and mullered me. To add insult to injury, that was after a HE archer unit ONE RANK DEEP actually managed to hold against a flank charge. So yes, I love my manti, but I am only too aware of it's fragility.

Kreoss · Post by **Kreoss** » Sun Aug 17, 2008 8:07 am

The Cloak of Hag Graef is also a decent item to wear while on the Manticore, since it cuts the S of ranged fire towards the model (Won't help much against regular bows and such, but it makes cannons wound on 4+ and bolt throwers on 6's. Though I think the Ring of Darkness will be better in the end.

Post by **Dalamar** » Sun Aug 17, 2008 8:55 am

Cloak of Hag Graef states "character" not "model" so it doesn't work on mounts.

Bigalthebrute · Post by **Bigalthebrute** » Sun Aug 17, 2008 7:31 pm

Well, the potion of strength says model not character, so does that mean if you give it to a hero on a maniticore, does the manti get +3 str?

Lac.desariel · Post by **Lac.desariel** » Sun Aug 17, 2008 7:43 pm

one way to protect the manticore is put a dragon in a threatening possition, and let them choose, either way they wont kill both if they can kill one at all..

with a dragon and a manti you should be threatening turn 2 onwards, thats not to say you will attack tho, I like to give terror across the army on turn 2 and see some run before i hit home

Kir · Post by **Kir** » Tue Aug 19, 2008 1:50 pm

BigALtheBRUTE wrote:Well, the potion of strength says model not character, so does that mean if you give it to a hero on a maniticore, does the manti get +3 str?

potion of strenght working on a manti/dragon would be awesome, anyone confirm that this works?

Deadlydeception · Post by **Deadlydeception** » Tue Aug 19, 2008 11:51 pm

I usually view my Manticore as a dragon-lite. The master gets the dragon egg so I can get that nice dragon breath attack on a unit.
Enchanted Shield+Heavy Armour+ Sea Dragon Cloak actually gives a respectable 2+ save now.

Don't forget that Null stones and the Ring of Hotek can also help you survive those magic attacks that large creatures are so good at attracting.

In the past, my Manticore has been a huge part of lots of my games. Terror works great against orcs and beastmen, and has even won a game for me by scaring away a unit of questing knights. I would tell you to watch out for ranked infantry, but now that we have hatred it should be doable.

Well, the potion of strength says model not character, so does that mean if you give it to a hero on a maniticore, does the manti get +3 str?

I looked in the book, and it says that you apply the item to the model. Also, the dragon egg has the same wording. Seems pretty clear to me

Gastronauticon · Post by **Gastronauticon** » Wed Aug 20, 2008 1:03 pm

Well, the wording on char+monsterous mount is very clear on that is counts as a single model.

However, both the poition and the egg do have a wording about the consumpition (single use-itude) of the item that separates them from the RoD.

I will play the battlesnacks (egg and potion) as char only for moral reasons unless an official faq explicitley sats otherwise.

Kaseliegth · Post by **Kaseliegth** » Wed Aug 20, 2008 2:35 pm

How does a master on a manticore with 2 Null talismans, sword of might. Heavy armour, sheild and SDC sound. It comes to 335 points.

Norngahl · Post by **Norngahl** » Wed Aug 20, 2008 4:14 pm

Well, I would give the Master a beastmasters scourge (-1 AS and additional hand weapon), SDC, SH, Blood Armor and Potion of Strengh.

For usual guys the 4 strengh 4 rending with hatred combined with the manticor are enough (why take a hydra blade, it just gives +1 attack and I ALWAYS have strengh 4), for hard guys take the potion of strengh and for one round you have the power to kick 4 knights + a few from the manti out of her seats! Also very useful if you get challend by an enemy character, you will blast him if he hasn't a 1+ reroll armor save and 4+ ward save.

In short:
-You got 4 strengh 4 rending attacks against lighter guys+ manti
-You got 4 stengh 7 rending attacks against characters
-You got a 2+ Armor save against shooting and after the first round of combat you got a 1+ AS

With a Manticor you usually don't target bloodknights or chosen, so with this combination you will shred every stuff your manticor usually targets, whlie your rider is save.

Biggest Problem with the Manticor is that he has no Armor save, so you shouldn' target units that will survive a charge and hit back hard anyway. And IF you need to charge such units or IF yo have to fight an enemy char, you will win (sterngh 7 rending with 4 attacks and hatred is pretty hard muhahaha :twisted:

)

greetings

Zeb · Post by **Zeb** » Wed Aug 20, 2008 4:39 pm

It is a problem that you can't use an additional hand weapon when mounted, and since I don't have the book I don't know if the Beastmaster scrounge is an additional hw, but you sure can't take an additional and gain an extra attack... Sorry, the rest seem to be interesting though.

Cheers.

Norngahl · Post by **Norngahl** » Wed Aug 20, 2008 6:40 pm

hmpf

Well than take a hellebard, bloodarmor and potion instead.