What to do against Wraiths?

[Burizan]

heat I agree with you, I really wish we could use lifetaker but gw broke it. Its not even a case of RAI/RAW they are just being stupid about it.

[Heat-13]

Hmm yeah I see the problem.

However! From that I presume that wood elves have got a special magic arrow armory, which is a separate thing.

We, as in the druchii do not have a special ammunition armory, hence it would be reasonable to say that that does not apply to us.

[Releaser...]

@Dyvim Tvar:I'm also going to post that on the FAQ thread -and hopefully- get an answer.

[Burizan]

That is probably what I would argue. Deep down I think the wood elf FAQ is clear, but retarded

[Silverheimdall]

This only applies to Wood Elves.

There is nothing supporting that all other armies magic bows are non-magical shooting. It is a magic item therefore the damage caused by it is magical.

The thing about Wood Elf Bows is that they modify stats or allow rerolls - they do not have any magical damage built-in, their arrows do (obviously)

[Dyvim tvar]

Deep down I think the wood elf FAQ is clear, but retarded

Well said.

[Grogsnotpowwabomba]

Lifetaker would be an amazing choice, but I have been told by a gw staff member (who seem increasingly unreliable) that lifetaker doesnt cause magical hits, so cannot hurt the wraiths. This is because the ammunition isn't magical. AFAIK the only ranged ways of killing them is spells and hail of doom arrow, neither of which are attractive choices to me.

These people are completely and utterly incorrect. That FAQ applies specifically to the Wood Elves.

Lifetaker hurts Wraiths...

[Darkwand]

I'd try to kill the necromancers and then cast bolts of magic at them since dark elves really lack things that do loads of magical damage.

Lifetaker would be nice against wraiths but it's an item I would probably never put in my armylist since I don't tailor my lists against specific units or armies or opponents. A combat character on dark steed with pendant of khaeleth and sword of might should do the trick. It's fast and it wounds on 2+ and it doesn't have stupidity.

My local opponent plays a unit of 8 wraiths and a vampire lord with the helm of commandment. It's a real pain in the ass to kill the wraiths thanks to their high weapon skill and ethereal.

[Professor goodvibes]

How about this.....Assassin with venom sword!

[Darkwand]

You'd have to hit and wound with each attack and each attack should kill at least one wraith. If one wraith is left alive it probably causes a wound or maybe kills your assassin. The other problem is getting the assassin to charge the wraiths who have higher movement value.

[Promises]

The problem with oddities like an Assasin with a Venom Sword etc is that its not something one would generally take in a tournament style army, and as such its a no-go for me. I rather like Dyvim's option, altho I'd sooner put him on a Dark Steed or Cold One, altho this might be a bit slower it does mean that in other cases they can reinforce my cavalry units and that the wraiths wont get the "free" wounds on the pegasus.

[Grogsnotpowwabomba]

Lifetaker would be nice against wraiths but it's an item I would probably never put in my armylist since I don't tailor my lists against specific units or armies or opponents. A combat character on dark steed with pendant of khaeleth and sword of might should do the trick. It's fast and it wounds on 2+ and it doesn't have stupidity.

Lifetaker is absolutely qualified as a "tournament" item, simply based on the fact that you will encounter so many VC and Daemon armies in tournaments. And its still a relatively high damage output item against rank and file (could easily remove a rank of Swordmasters, Black Orcs, Black Guard, etc before combat.

[Darkwand]

What's so special about Lifefater vs. Daemons??

As for your argument about rank and file removal, the good old repeater crossbowmen and reaper bolt throwers do it well enough.

[Layne]

Ranged magical attacks is what's so special about it. You can kill them before you fight them, which is nice.

[Shadow dark]

I have an idea on how to defeat wraiths. I began to think about it because i know someone who has made a deathstar wraith unit led by a vampire lord. It is defended from magic by 3 necromancers with 2 dispel scrolls each. However i have found a way to stop it, using my standard list. The premise should hold against all wraiths. The key parts are as follows:

Dreadlord
Executioners Axe, Blood Armour

11 Black Guard
Full Command
Standard of Hag Graef
Tower Master has Crimson Death

D T
B B
B B
B B
B B
B B

In this formation when the wraith attack they will have to whether the attacks of the Dreadlord (with any characters getting smashed in the face by the Axe) and the Tower Master. The beauty increases when you realise that the Dreadlords armour save will soon be so high that even strength 5 will still be saved on a 2+.

Hope that helped.

[Darkwand]

Ranged magical attacks is what's so special about it. You can kill them before you fight them, which is nice.

What does "magical attacks" have to do with anything? They still get their ward saves these days.

I thought Blood Armour's max save is 1+. If there is an ethereal vampire in the unit, he probably challenges either one and the wraiths get to hack the dreadlord.

[Lord temnir]

Funny to hear that, i had a simmilar idea with CoK and a Dreadlord or even a master on CO.

The only difference about my plan is that I use rather the sword of battle for the Dreadknight since 3 S4 attacks are fair enough against T3 enemies

But now that I think about it twice, your idea could probably work even better than mine...

[Silverheimdall]

I have an idea on how to defeat wraiths. I began to think about it because i know someone who has made a deathstar wraith unit led by a vampire lord. It is defended from magic by 3 necromancers with 2 dispel scrolls each. However i have found a way to stop it, using my standard list. The premise should hold against all wraiths. The key parts are as follows:

Dreadlord
Executioners Axe, Blood Armour

11 Black Guard
Full Command
Standard of Hag Graef
Tower Master has Crimson Death

D T
B B
B B
B B
B B
B B

In this formation when the wraith attack they will have to whether the attacks of the Dreadlord (with any characters getting smashed in the face by the Axe) and the Tower Master. The beauty increases when you realise that the Dreadlords armour save will soon be so high that even strength 5 will still be saved on a 2+.

Hope that helped.

Blood Armour makes your armor better for each wound you deal up to a maximum of 1+, nothing will change that, it won't go to 0+, -1+ etc.
so 3+ against S5.

[Darluith]

In its description, Lifetakers arrows are dipped in the venom of a black dragon, making them magical IMO. As far as fighting Ethereal units/characters, there are 3 ways (again in my own experience). 1) magic item heavy, taking things liek Crimson Death, Lifetaker, Caledors bane, ect.. 2) Magical death, or Fire and Dark Lore should cause enough wounds now (especially fire lol). 3) SCR as most of the ethereal units are small and can't join other units (a different story when it comes to the coach, but there is a tactica in the D.R.A.I.C.H. with that description). They may cause wounds, but you will always outnumber, have ranks, and banners, and such the like. they can cause some wounds, but not enough to win before your support arrives to end it.

Just my slice on it.

[Zzap]

I once cast word of pain on 3 Wraiths and charge my 25 warrriors with warbanner into it...successfully destroy all of them

otherwise , lifetaker is your best choice
some magic weapon (venom sword ,hydrablade , EXE axe)may also useful

just to clarify something. you are reducing the wraiths' ws and bs to one if i am not correct. the helm allows them to use the vampire's ws (instead of their own, which is equal to one b/c of WoP), so therefore casting WoP on such unit would be folly. targeting the vamp would be better, but he would probably prioritize your spell with a scroll or two.

[Undeadcatd]

just to clarify something. you are reducing the wraiths' ws and bs to one if i am not correct. the helm allows them to use the vampire's ws (instead of their own, which is equal to one b/c of WoP), so therefore casting WoP on such unit would be folly. targeting the vamp would be better, but he would probably prioritize your spell with a scroll or two.

You didnt clafify anything
First , my opponent didnt have the helm.Second , He already use his scrolls.
you are talking about complete different situation!So folly!

[Zzap]

i thought warriors naturally had higher ws then wraiths, making word of pain a waste in that situation. my bad. i don't have the de army book. i just think that such a spell would be kinda less helpful when comparing its uses against other armies. overall, vc have really low ws and absolutely no bs. however against he, we or dwarves you make much more of an impact.

a solid vc list with wraiths will probably carry adequate magic protection. so maybe with a bit of effort you could bore some spells through to reduce their numbers. even with the cooperation with that magic item lifetaker or whatever you could isolate that unit with casualties. they cost about 2 dispel scrolls each, so each kill adds up. even if you don't kill the whole unit, enough kills will give you some hefty points. also, remember that he can only IoN that unit with one wound per casting.

[Burizan]

In its description, Lifetakers arrows are dipped in the venom of a black dragon, making them magical IMO

It does say that, but black dragons don't have a magical breath weapon OR magical breath. Additionally fluff =/= rules.


ZZAP: I am fairly sure wraiths have ws3/2, but either way they hit warriors on 4s unless they are ws1.

[Azure]

Fluff doesn't have any control on the rules.

As for if Lifetaker is magical, yes it is. It is a magic weapon and the FAQ only effects Wood Elves. Thats it.

-Rex

[Ehakir]

Dreadlord
Executioners Axe, Blood Armour

11 Black Guard
Full Command
Standard of Hag Graef
Tower Master has Crimson Death

D T
B B
B B
B B
B B
B B

In this formation when the wraith attack they will have to whether the attacks of the Dreadlord (with any characters getting smashed in the face by the Axe) and the Tower Master. The beauty increases when you realise that the Dreadlords armour save will soon be so high that even strength 5 will still be saved on a 2+.

Hope that helped.
Dreadlord
Executioners Axe, Blood Armour

11 Black Guard
Full Command
Standard of Hag Graef
Tower Master has Crimson Death

D T
B B
B B
B B
B B
B B

In this formation when the wraith attack they will have to whether the attacks of the Dreadlord (with any characters getting smashed in the face by the Axe) and the Tower Master. The beauty increases when you realise that the Dreadlords armour save will soon be so high that even strength 5 will still be saved on a 2+.

Hope that helped.

A pity that you can't use your banner in this situation... (your Std. doesn't stand in the front rank => you don't get the benefits of the banner.)