The MantiLord : Can he be trusted with a Magic Lance?

[Andrejko]

Hey All,

Yesterday I received my Manticore model. I have wanted one of these bad boys for a while now. They are, as the book tells us, incarnations of Khaine after all.

So I am now at the point of deciding what equipment I will be giving him. I was looking at some threads on this topic and noticed that many people suggesting the Death Piercer.

I’m not so sure that I like that idea.

As many a wise forum member has pointed out, our friend the Manticre is very vulnerable to shooting. That means if your enemy shoots down the Manti then your Lord looses has magic weapon.

I do think however a lance is a nice weapon for him. Therefore I was thinking about just giving him a normal lance and spending the points other things. One of these other things is always probably going to be the Ring of Darkness.

I have made a poll just to see what other people think about this. It would be nice if forum members could cast some votes so I can see what the general consensus is.

Andrejko

[Tyury]

I dont have experience with mantis, are they big targets? Becouse if they are not, you could screen them with your harpies.

[Krupp]

Manticore is a large target, and yes shooting is a problem. As for items, i'd go with a mundane lance or hydrablade and a potion of strength, armor is personal preference. The ring of darkness is probably more useful than the pendant. But, with hydrablade and potion you can't afford it...tough call.

I wouldn't bother with the killing blow lance, my MantiLord's biggest problem is things like steggadons, star dragons and other things immune to killing blow, as well as shooting and magic. The killing blow lance seems cheap but has a high opportunity cost (the items you could have taken instead).

[Minsc]

Crimson Death, Pendant of Khaeleth, Ring of Darkness - 100 pts of magical item's.

Then add heavy armour, a shield and a SDC and you'll have a nice 2+ armoursave vs any shooting that gets by the RoD, and the Dreadlord won't loose any combatpotential even if his Manticore dies.

[22over7]

Crimson Death, Pendant of Khaeleth, Ring of Darkness - 100 pts of magical item's.

You can't have the Ring of Darkness and the Pendant of Khaeleth (they are both Talismans).

Ring of Darkness, Armour of Darkness and Crimson Death is the build I personally like. Or if you have other ways of dealing with ethereals then Potion of Strength and Halberd.

[No one]

I dont have experience with mantis, are they big targets? Becouse if they are not, you could screen them with your harpies.

they're a rather large target so that won't work.
I would say no, the only magic weapon I would put on a Mantilord is CD (or just use a mantimaster with ring of darkness) manti's die too easy, magic lances are for my heroes on DS, when on a monstrous mount the character always gets a mundane lance or a non lance magical weapon (like SoM).

[Minsc]

You can't have the Ring of Darkness and the Pendant of Khaeleth (they are both Talismans).

Yeh, remembered that afterwards but wasn't near a comp to edit it -_-.

Crimson Death, Ring of Darkness and Armour of Eternal Servitude works as well, I'd never field a Dragon/Mantirider who's only protection is a armoursave. One (un)lucky bolt or similar from your opponent and you have no way of protecting yourself.

[Ehakir]

A master on Manticore with a mundane lance and mundane armour. That is what I use regulary. But my army is designed to keep pressure on the enemy's shooting (lots of knights/dark riders/harpies) to make the Manticore less of a target. The only thing I have ever given him is the Crystal of Midnight

[Andrejko]

@Krupp
I think you have raised a very good point there. Our magic lance choices might not make so much sense here in comparison to the other options available and the things that are likely to give the MantiLord problems.

Here’s a bit of theoryhammer for why the Potion of Strength and a Mundane Lance may be a better option.

Death Piercer

The Manticore has the killing blow anyway, so it seems to bring less in that respect straight away. However there is also a string argument to say that that the more killing blow chances you have then the more actual killing blows you will have. However, it is completely useless against the likes of a Dragon.

Caledors Bane

The Caledors Bane could be useful for making a last stand against a dragon. However, if your opponent has a dragon then the chances are they will be doing their best to charge your Mantilord. If this happened then the Caledors Bane it would be useless. If you are trying to take some wounds of the dragon first it seems a bit risky.

Potion of Strength

You do the completely unexpected and charge the unwounded Dragon at the first opportunity with the Mantilord. Between the mundane lance charge, the Manticore attacks and hatred let’s assume manage to take 3-4 wounds of the dragon.

At this point the Dragon and the Lord focus all of their attacks at the Manticore. It is very possible that it is bye- bye Manticore. It is very likely that your lord is still around, especially if he has the Armour and Ring of Darkness.

If the Manti can survive the first round of combat, it probably gets slain by the lord who will strike before it in the second round of combat.

Now IF The Manticore survives all of those attacks the beauty of it is that it strikes before the Dragon. It might get the opportunity to take another wound off.

Regardless you still have the Potion of Strength to use and it is possible that it is then bye-bye Dragon. If not only has only one wound left and ripe for killing. A fair trade I would say.

mmmmmmmmm…..a good tactic of theoryhammer gone mad?

Anyway that is lunch over for me. Feel free to tear this apart

[Crawd]

Nah, don't use a magical lance with a Lord on the Manticore. Like others said, the Crimson Death is a better choice.

[Marauder mitch2]

I am a big fan of Death piercer with the manti as you have more chance of KB but he doesn't engage dragon or stegs unless he has to. A dragon can take on a another dragon or steg but a manticore is easy cr so the role is different but he is doing better when he chases arfter knights.

I like Potion, Death Piercer and Pendant on a Manticore.

[Prince fabulas]

I find at T5 no 4W no armour save the manticore dies quite often so it is not worth being S4 afterwards.

It's even risky with a dragon.

There is nothing funnier than when an opponet is gloating over killing your manticore and the lord charges in minces something and overruns into something else.

This won't happen if you are strength 4.

I go PoK, CD, 1+ AS armour 85pts.

This happened me against dwarves the Lord marched across the board taking hits from artillery XBows and hand guns then milled through the handgunners into the artillery. Being S6 was esssential.

[Nomen mendax]

I have a list with a Dreadlord on a manticore, she has full mundane armour and the pendant, and heartseeker and the potion of strength.

I've found the potion great for those times you want high strength (chariots, big monsters and so on) and heartseeker's ability to reroll hits and wounds is very useful for combats that last beyond the first round and goes a long way to protect you from lousy rolls on the round you use the potion.

[Sulla]

No. In my experience, the manticore rarely survives the battle, making either a mundane halberd or the crimson death a better choice. (Having said that, I do like Nomen's heartseeker combo... especially if I have a cauldron on the field. Rerolled wounds and killing blow. )

As for the ring of darkness, it's generally not worth it as a protective device either for the manticore. Since the BS reduction rounds up, it's generally only a -1 BS penalty for most of the hard hitting shooting in the game (handgunners, dwarves, razordons and jezzails). Even with that penalty, those guys can still hit enough to rip the manti to shreds. Cover is a much better defense IMO. I would either go Pendant or 3 null talismans for protection.

[Los manticores]

My Manti model is what drew me to start a DE force, I saw all of the things that you see now, PoK, Bane of Caledor, AoD. Problem was that the Manti had a big Bullseye painted on him. So to make this work, I went to the Ring of Darkness, Mundane lance, Mundane Armor, Repeater Handbow Pair,Potion of strength and I went with the Cloak of HG to keep myself from being unhorsed should my opponent get a lucky Bolt in. I'll take my chances with S3 over S6 anyday. The one thing that I can say about this set up is that aggressive play is generally not rewarded. Hold them back, snipe strays and manouver for the and game.

Oh, so long story short, I voted no.