How do you deal with stubborn units?

Ozzkoz · Post by **Ozzkoz** » Sat Sep 12, 2009 8:35 pm

What is the best way to deal with stubborn units? I just got rolled because I got stuck in combat against eternal guard and don't know how to beat the combination of EG and dryads. Also, is it too much to expect a charging we unit with manbane champion to break dryads?

Thanks

Rabidnid · Post by **Rabidnid** » Sat Sep 12, 2009 10:41 pm

WE versus dryads are hitting on 4+, with rerolls, and and wounding on 5+

A unit of 7 witches with a hag charging will have 18 attacks with rerolls which should hit about 14 times. 3 or 4 of those hits will be wounds due to poison and the balance will wound on 5+ for around another 3 wounds. 6 wounds so far. The hag will hit 3 times and wound twice for another 2 wounds.

8 wounds with a 5+ ward will kill 5 or 6 dryads. Assuming 8 or 9 dryads in the unit should give them 7 attacks back (2 plus champ) of which 5 will hit and 3-4 wound.

You will be 4 up in ACR and and have a reasonable chance of winning. If they charged, you are screwed.

Eternal guard are T-3 and 6+ save, just shoot them and flank them. I find the ItP dryads the biggest problem in the list.

Ozzkoz · Post by **Ozzkoz** » Sun Sep 13, 2009 1:24 am

My problem was the guard are stuborn w general, so even though I won combat by like 7 they test on 9 and won't break.

Post by **Dalamar** » Sun Sep 13, 2009 1:30 am

Fear is your best friend against stubborn units. Just charge them with a unit of cold one knights and watch them crumble.

Unless they're also immune to psychology, then simply shoot them to death.

Rabidnid · Post by **Rabidnid** » Sun Sep 13, 2009 2:17 am

ozzkoz wrote:My problem was the guard are stuborn w general, so even though I won combat by like 7 they test on 9 and won't break.

That is the point to being stubborn. Shoot them a lot and flank them. Avoid the general if you can and just kill rank and file until the unit is destroyed.

Once their numbers are reduced, a big-ish unit of CoKs/hydra will break them if you wan tto speed up the process.

Dannyisevil · Post by **Dannyisevil** » Sun Sep 13, 2009 10:17 am

Agains small units with stuborn you can shoot them down more easy and outnumber by fear.

is there an big unit that is stuborn it's depents on his point cost.
an stuborn unit with a charackter + magic banner + lot of stuborn troops. then it will be hard too kill them in combat and shoot them too death.
Possible this unit cost at leat 600 points and can not shoot (wizzards can shoot but easy kill, except slann).
You concider too kill other troops first and kill the big unit last.

Lars · Post by **Lars** » Sun Sep 13, 2009 10:43 am

My take against Stubborn units:
- Soften them with heavy magic and Reaper Bolt Thrower;
- Charge with an "anvil" in order to make a static situation. Black Guards or Warriors wih BSB are perfect;
- Remove enemy flankers with magic/shooting or charge into battle with COK, COC or Hydra.
- Slowly defeat them charging with flankers (Dark Riders) or wipe them out with Cold One Knights and/or War Hydra.

The Stubborn unit that gave me problem are Empire Greatswords, since they can field a 20 man unit with two detachment of 10 Halberdier each. I usually remove one detachment via shooting/magic or via Dark Riders before they can make the tremendous "countercharge".

Anyway, the key is "soften", imho.

Stonecutter · Post by **Stonecutter** » Sun Sep 13, 2009 10:45 am

For the wood elf eternal guard, they are only stubborn if the hero is alive and in the unit. Kill the hero (fairly easy as they have almost zero armour and poor ward saves) and the unit ceases to be stubborn. Note that thanks to the woodie FAQ, you should never challenge in this case as they will retire their character and the unit still remains stubborn or they will accept and the character will have the annoyance of netlings and only be hit on a 6. Other stubborn units have been covered.

Lars · Post by **Lars** » Sun Sep 13, 2009 11:29 am

Stonecutter wrote:For the wood elf eternal guard, they are only stubborn if the hero is alive and in the unit. Kill the hero (fairly easy as they have almost zero armour and poor ward saves) and the unit ceases to be stubborn. Note that thanks to the woodie FAQ, you should never challenge in this case as they will retire their character and the unit still remains stubborn or they will accept and the character will have the annoyance of netlings and only be hit on a 6. Other stubborn units have been covered.

Reding this kind of things I thanks Khaine for the gift he made us under the appearance of Baldewind. It killed a lot of Champions and heroes. Agianst Eternal Guards can be an useful method of softening.

Ozzkoz · Post by **Ozzkoz** » Sun Sep 13, 2009 1:47 pm

Wow lots of good stuff, I think in my case killing the hero is my best bet.

Camaris · Post by **Camaris** » Mon Sep 14, 2009 10:21 pm

ozzkoz wrote:Wow lots of good stuff, I think in my case killing the hero is my best bet.

If you're planning on facing them in combat, watch out for the amber pendant, which makes you always strike last, and/or annoyance of netlings, in a challenge you hit on 6s or their regen armor.

When I face EG, I just shoot the tar out of them with RXBs/RBTs. After all, my shooting is going to be taking all sorts of modifiers against their other units, so might as well shoot the one ranked up unit.

Post by **Dyvim tvar** » Mon Sep 14, 2009 11:02 pm

My answer for nearly everything in the Wood Elf army -- a Hydra or two.

Ozzkoz · Post by **Ozzkoz** » Thu Sep 17, 2009 2:05 am

Yea I am currently painting a hydra, I just don't see what they really have to combat it aside from massed shooting.

As for killing the character, I'll watch out for the amber item, but had a question about another item this hero has last time I saw him. He had something which would not allow him to claim a strength bonus but prevented me from claiming strength bonus as well. What happens if I had a master with crimson death which explicitly says you always hit with S6 and nothing can prevent it? I would think that it should be taken literally and I hit with S6 but I can see my opponent protesting this citing his magic item which doesn't allow it, who's item trumps who's?

Post by **Dalamar** » Thu Sep 17, 2009 2:52 am

Treemen are pretty effective at monster to monster combat. One treeman can usually beat a hydra though it will be a *long* fight.