death star

Jungly · Post by **Jungly** » Thu Nov 19, 2009 5:54 pm

What is death star?

Camaris · Post by **Camaris** » Thu Nov 19, 2009 6:12 pm

An army that is 90% made up of one unit. An example is the shade deathstar which has 50 great weapon wielding shades, BSB with the standard of hag graef, Pendant noble, ring of hotek/null talisman characters and possibly an assassin. The rest of the army is usually comprised of small units of DR or warriors, which are brought mainly to fill in mandatory core slots.

I, personally, wouldn't recommend them because people cry cheese at them, they are somewhat boring to play, and they're kind of a tactical crutch.

Red... · Post by **Red...** » Thu Nov 19, 2009 7:11 pm

Camaris is right.

It's also an uber space ship, the size of a small moon, built by the Emperor of the Galatic Empire in Star Wars IV and VI

Post by **Layne** » Thu Nov 19, 2009 8:24 pm

I'm afraid the Ring Of Hotek will be quite operational when your friends arrive.

Demetrius · Post by **Demetrius** » Thu Nov 19, 2009 10:34 pm

Layne wrote:I'm afraid the Ring Of Hotek will be quite operational when your friends arrive.

"Its a trap!"

Slortor · Post by **Slortor** » Fri Nov 20, 2009 12:01 am

Demetrius the Betrayer wrote:
Layne wrote:I'm afraid the Ring Of Hotek will be quite operational when your friends arrive.

"Its a trap!"

"Concentrate all firepower on the War Hydra!"

Tu'shan · Post by **Tu'shan** » Fri Nov 20, 2009 1:09 pm

"That's no moon..."

The most common forms in the dark elf army are the above mentioned 'shade death star', and the ever popular black guard death star, which is even harder to beat and kill head on, but vulnerable to flank charges (not that vulnerable still), shooting etc.

If you are considering building one such unit, you need to consider making it resistant to magic (with us that involves a character with magic resistance normally), resistant to shooting (skirmish and 1/2 opponant bs) and combat (hence gw on the shades plus a BSB with banner of hag grief), whilst still remaining offensive enough that the enemy cannot just ignore it (100+ crossbow shots should do the trick).

You may consider items such as the steam tank, or our own invulnerable dragon lord to be smaller versions of the same thing, but these are generally more accepted by gamers.

Red... · Post by **Red...** » Fri Nov 20, 2009 1:55 pm

"Why are we still moving towards it?

We're caught in a frenzied charge! It's pulling us in!"

The most common forms in the dark elf army are the above mentioned 'shade death star', and the ever popular black guard death star, which is even harder to beat and kill head on, but vulnerable to flank charges (not that vulnerable still), shooting etc.

Not that I would ever run it, but wouldn't witchbrew take care of vulnerability to flank and rear charges?

Phierlihy · Post by **Phierlihy** » Fri Nov 20, 2009 2:49 pm

"Aren't you a little short to be a Black Guard...?"

Cananatra · Post by **Cananatra** » Fri Nov 20, 2009 7:51 pm

Lokhir fellheart or a assassin deal with flank charges on a black guard death star too.

Sulla · Post by **Sulla** » Fri Nov 20, 2009 7:54 pm

Tu'Shan wrote:"That's no moon..."

The most common forms in the dark elf army are the above mentioned 'shade death star', and the ever popular black guard death star, which is even harder to beat and kill head on, but vulnerable to flank charges (not that vulnerable still), shooting etc.

If you are considering building one such unit,

...Don't.

Tethlis · Post by **Tethlis** » Fri Nov 20, 2009 11:59 pm

Probably the most infamous Deathstar out there right now in the Grave Guard deathstar. 30+ models with Strength 6 Killing Blow, Toughness 4, heavy armor, Regeneration, WS7, +1 to hit, cannot be broken and can be easily brought back to life. The idea behind all Deathstars is that they destroy all units they come into contact with while being difficult to destroy themselves, thereby amassing victory points while denying them to the enemy.

Tu'shan · Post by **Tu'shan** » Sat Nov 21, 2009 11:44 am

"Witness the firepower of this fully ARMED and OPERATIONAL battle station!"

Not that I would ever run it, but wouldn't witchbrew take care of vulnerability to flank and rear charges?

Ah, of course a hag is ideal for this, and can be the BSB making the unit strike first. Had never really considered putting in the witch brew, the main reason is because if you use a unit like this, sensible players will never want to charge it, even in the flank or rear, they will just avoid it, or bait it around the board with cheap units all game, whilst they kill everything else you have, then grab table quarters etc at the end of a game.

I agree with the sentiments here, they are normally not all that much fun, unless of course it is agreed before hand, to, for example both have a deathstar type unit, or some other such scenario

Irtehdar · Post by **Irtehdar** » Sun Nov 22, 2009 7:29 pm

The Death Star does however have one weakness regardless which army have built it.
It is very vulnerable to MSU armies. Not that the MSU army can usually effectively kill it but more that the MSU army has plenty of expendable cheap stuff to keep the Death Star from killing anything of value while the MSU army have plenty of stuff left to kill the Death Stars support units.

Ive always wondered why people gets lured into doing Death Stars. Perhaps other than to try it atleast once. (I must admit I played a Shade Star once)

Sulla · Post by **Sulla** » Sun Nov 22, 2009 10:45 pm

Irtehdar wrote:
Ive always wondered why people gets lured into doing Death Stars. Perhaps other than to try it atleast once. (I must admit I played a Shade Star once)

...because it eats balanced armies. They have no units which can beat it one on one, so must try to get a combined charge to defeat it or else be beaten piecemeal. Unfortunately, then they have to get past the rest of the army which is designed to delay them and give up only minimal VP's.

The shadestar is a particularly nasty deathstar becasue it can also shoot (and stand&shoot) with massed shots not blocking each other's LoS; particularly nasty vs those MSU armies the previous post mentioned. It also exploits the skirmisher rules which always let characters move to the front rank in a combat, meaning that the right guys will always be there and most likely with ASF too. It's a no brainer in a army with a bunch of no-brainer choices and players should resist taking it bacause of that very reason.

Melinia · Post by **Melinia** » Fri Nov 27, 2009 7:27 pm

deathknight27 wrote:Not that I would ever run it, but wouldn't witchbrew take care of vulnerability to flank and rear charges?

Sort of. You'd still lose your rank bonus, which can be pretty brutal.

Fleshcollector · Post by **Fleshcollector** » Sat Nov 28, 2009 3:12 am

Would a 15 strong shade unit qualify for a deathstar? I did that once with the ring of darkness, ring of hotek and Banner of Hag Graef.

At what model count does the shade units qualify as a deathstar?

Sulla · Post by **Sulla** » Sat Nov 28, 2009 3:43 am

Once you put 3 or more characters in it it's really a deathstar. 600-odd points in a single unit. Doesn't really matter how many shades... It's just that fewer shades make for a poorer, less survivable shadestar.

Vesidel · Post by **Vesidel** » Sat Nov 28, 2009 8:41 pm

FleshCollector wrote:

At what model count does the shade units qualify as a deathstar?

I think anything qualifies as something of a deathstar if it's taking up more than a third of the points in your army.

Geist · Post by **Geist** » Fri Dec 25, 2009 3:55 am

With things like the cult of Frost Blade running around, or the ever so annoying twin Engine and Frog OR the twin warshrine chosen Tznch block, one can not truly be dinged for taking a death star build.

No one · Post by **No one** » Mon Dec 28, 2009 9:49 am

what is the cult of frost blade??

Geist · Post by **Geist** » Tue Dec 29, 2009 5:32 am

3 vamps
1 king
lots of dire wolves
everything works around making sure lord can get to combat with whatever needs to die. Hes geared with frostblade and all the trappings to hit and wound you alot.
Runs around killing everything. The army is a master work of mathematics, ie its all based on numbers. It is truly a machine.

Sulla · Post by **Sulla** » Tue Dec 29, 2009 7:53 am

Geist wrote:3 vamps
1 king
lots of dire wolves
everything works around making sure lord can get to combat with whatever needs to die. Hes geared with frostblade and all the trappings to hit and wound you alot.
Runs around killing everything. The army is a master work of mathematics, ie its all based on numbers. It is truly a machine.

That armystyle would get owned by the shadestar though, or even a normal BG, ASF, assassin setup because sooner or later he has to fight them because they chew through everything else in his list. As soon as combat is joined, snikt! the VC lord's head is sent rolling by the deft skills of the assassin and the VC army begins crumbling. To beat DE, VC lords really need the ignore kb, poison armour. Too much potential killing blow in our list otherwise.

Ming · Post by **Ming** » Tue Jan 05, 2010 4:23 pm

This thread allowed me to understand the mechanics of
Shades Deathstar.
I thank you all for explaining to the illiterate masses this monstruosity.

I've just one doubt....
If I combine charges, and foolishly charge it with multiple units; Death star can stand and shoot against only one of my units, right?!

Post by **Dalamar** » Tue Jan 05, 2010 4:25 pm

If I combine charges, and foolishly charge it with multiple units; Death star can stand and shoot against only one of my units, right?!

If you combine charges, and do it right, you will destroy the deathstar.

And yes, they can only S&S against one target, and can't S&S *at all* if even one charging unit is closer than half its charge range.