All Assassin Army?

How to beat those cowardly High Elves?

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Mazrim taim
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All Assassin Army?

Post by Mazrim taim »

I've been wondering about an DE army composed entirely of Assassins. How novel is my idea? has anybody else tried (or even considered) it before? A cauldron of Blood would make them stubborn, and just add some RXB for minimum core and a supreme sorc for magic? Thoughts pl0x
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Tribun
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Post by Tribun »

So you would have two units of rxb and so just two assasines? sounds not like an assasine-army to me! two assasines in a 25 men strong army would even not be fluffy, cause they are very rare and precious adepts of the Khaine-temple, their service is so expensive, that just highborns can hire them and it would be a waist to have them in a small 25 men-skirmish.
Sorry, I think your idea is nonsense.
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Phierlihy
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Post by Phierlihy »

I've seen the army played and it either wins big or loses big depending on the matchup. And tt is not fun to play against. If your goal is to irritate your opponent so you don't have to play him twice, this is the list to use!
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Skilgannon
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Post by Skilgannon »

At 1500pts I saw someone take 6 assassins, cauldron, 3x5 Witch Elves and 3x10 spears. It won one lost one and drew one. I think he got the rules wrong with the assassin placement though.
Mazrim taim
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Post by Mazrim taim »

@Tribun:
Did I ever say i would only take two assassins? I meant to take as many as would fit in my points-range. and no, it is not fluffy. It's not supposed to be.

@phierlihy:
Perfect! Thats the kind of thing I love to experiment with.
"The end is near. The Wheel has groaned its final rotation, the clock has lost its spring, the serpent heaves its final gasps. He must know pain of heart. He must know frustration, and he must know anguish. Bring these to him, and you will be rewarded."
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Yemeth
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Post by Yemeth »

What about the 1 assassin per unit rule? (pg. 95)
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Bounce
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Post by Bounce »

If you want you could take an army along the lines of
Master 80
30 Warriors 180
- Assassin 90

10 Warriors 60
- Assassin 90

10 Warriors 60
- Assassin 90

10 Warriors 60
- Assassin 90

10 Warriors 60
- Assassin 90

10 Warriors 60
- Assassin 90

10 Warriors 60
- Assassin 90

10 Warriors 60
- Assassin 90

10 Warriors 60
- Assassin 90

10 Warriors 60
- Assassin 90

10 Warriors 60
- Assassin 90

10 Warriors 60
- Assassin 90
Total: 2000
Would be intrigued to see how this would play out. Could be fun for a crazy sort of game. Perhaps where the other player is also doing something crazily stupid.
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Post by Layne »

Egads, that's evil. The antidote would be a twin stank list.
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Timz
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Post by Timz »

Yikes.

And early in the game you could migrate the assassins. Get like 3 assassins in the front rank of every squad.
12 ASF poisoned hatred attacks per squad sounds pretty juicy.

Although I personally would rather make jaws drop and go like.

3-5 Assassins with Black Lotus+TouchofDeath+RuneofKhaine in front row.

With 5 that'd be an average 30 always striking first hatred attacks with rerolling 1s and killing blows on 6's. Even Archaon might get stopped in his tracks.

Or imagine this. A squad with 5 manbane+rending stars assassins in the front rank.
Run up, shoot 15 shots, 2+ to hit, which wound dragon on 3+ and wound rider on 2+. Such a unit could reliably wipe a cavalry unit off the board without taking any damage at all.

Run up towards Chaos Knights. 2+ to hit. 15 shots. Wounding on 2+ and -3 to armor save (reducing them to 4+.) On average you'd kill 5.2 Chaos Knights on first volley.

They charge you, stand-and-shoot, thanks to BS9 you'd again kill an average 5.2 Chaos Knights. (10 Knights is probably the largest unit you'd face.)

If any somehow survive, they face 20 ASF attacks with rerolling hits and S5 from manbane, which averages out to another 4 wounds against the T4 1+ save chaos knights.

14 Chaos Knights brought down without getting a single attack.
14 Chaos Knights with command comes in at 680 points.

The 5 assassins which killed them in a single exchange shoot-get-charged cost a total of 755 points, which is a bit higher, but they obviously earned it back in this scenario.

Is a ninja-deathstar pretty rare because it sounds like it'd be hilarious when pulled off. Put them in a unit with super magic resistance + ring of hotek and something either resistant to shooting or just having tons of bodies.

(This might be off topic, but are there any GW models which look the part of a throwing-stars-assassin better than just using a guy holding two daggers?)
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Cananatra
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Post by Cananatra »

There was one in the DE spearhead that was holding a star.
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Yoshiro
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Post by Yoshiro »

I dunno, if I wanted an all-assassin army I don't think i would want them all in units that could easily be annihilated by war machines or for that matter, Light shooting from just about ANYONE.

What i would do is put 5 assassins with RS in with a unit of Shades and run them into the first forest I see.

There's no point in trying to hide them, so why not at least let them shoot?
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Sadisticity
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Post by Sadisticity »

Defeats the purpose of being Assassins with the Hidden rule isn't it if your opponent knew all your unit contains an assasin.

It is stated in the rulebook. (Word for word)

Each Dark Elf infantry unit (except Harpies) may include A SINGLE ASSASSIN.

I do not know if this was already covered in the FAQ but the word ONLY between may and include is absent. So I suppose you can include 5 assasins in a single unit?


The only reason why I field Assassins is to bait my opponent in charging my executioners. My assassin will be revealed and hopefully killing off the first rank while my executioners get to strike back last unharmed.
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Yoshiro
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Post by Yoshiro »

Oh, that's not what i meant by "with a unit"

I meant like, standing next to them, but not actually JOINING the unit.

Think about it, this way if your enemy wanted to shoot, this way they could only target a single assassin at a time. The shades are there because they're actually better than crossbowmen when if comes to shooting and I would prefer they were protected by my assassins.

Should probably mention that this is what you would call an"uber-unit" and it's not exactly subtle, so it's usually better as part of a death star strategy.
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Bounce
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Post by Bounce »

SaDiStIcItY wrote:Defeats the purpose of being Assassins with the Hidden rule isn't it if your opponent knew all your unit contains an assasin.

It is stated in the rulebook. (Word for word)

Each Dark Elf infantry unit (except Harpies) may include A SINGLE ASSASSIN.

I do not know if this was already covered in the FAQ but the word ONLY between may and include is absent. So I suppose you can include 5 assasins in a single unit?
.

I don't believe you need the word only to preclude you from taking multiple assassins.
The meaning of the rules is extremely clear. Trying to argue otherwise would give you a sports hit from me.


Yes the tiny units would get hit badly by warmachines but look at it this way. Each unit is only 150 points anyway and most warmachines or archers will take awhile to take out just a couple of units and you have 12!They only have to have one model left in the unit and the assassin can always reveal himself and start making his way on foot.
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Timz
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Post by Timz »

Bounce wrote:
SaDiStIcItY wrote:Defeats the purpose of being Assassins with the Hidden rule isn't it if your opponent knew all your unit contains an assasin.

It is stated in the rulebook. (Word for word)

Each Dark Elf infantry unit (except Harpies) may include A SINGLE ASSASSIN.

I do not know if this was already covered in the FAQ but the word ONLY between may and include is absent. So I suppose you can include 5 assasins in a single unit?
.

I don't believe you need the word only to preclude you from taking multiple assassins.
The meaning of the rules is extremely clear. Trying to argue otherwise would give you a sports hit from me.


Yes the tiny units would get hit badly by warmachines but look at it this way. Each unit is only 150 points anyway and most warmachines or archers will take awhile to take out just a couple of units and you have 12!They only have to have one model left in the unit and the assassin can always reveal himself and start making his way on foot.



It's pretty clear to me where the emphasis is.
That sentence is telling you what you are able to do when creating the squad: include an assassin.

If the rule was specifically to stop assassins joining other units it'd say something about it. Or say ONLY one may become included in a unit of infantry"

When creating army -> can do whatever army book tells you is doable. (Include one assassin)
When playing game -> can do whatever you can normally do unless contradicted elsewhere.
(doesn't say ONLY one assassin can join a unit later in the game.)


Four assassins could join a unit of Cold One Cavalry, although it'd move at foot speed.
If it does not say "multiple assassins can't join a squad" then they can because they are normal characters.
Don't see any good reason 6 assassins could join a cavalry unit but not a unit of shades.
Mazrim taim
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Post by Mazrim taim »

why not start them off on their own? Assassins have the scout special rule, so why not start them off on their own and get a Caludron of Blood up there to make them stubbon w/ Leadership 10? or am i misinterpreting something?
"The end is near. The Wheel has groaned its final rotation, the clock has lost its spring, the serpent heaves its final gasps. He must know pain of heart. He must know frustration, and he must know anguish. Bring these to him, and you will be rewarded."
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Yemeth
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Post by Yemeth »

Yes. They must be deployed inside a unit, the scout rule is there simply to allow the assassin to be deployed with shades.
Odi ergo sum - Druchii's illumination


DE noble is talking to a HE prisoner

DE: 'Do you know the difference between you and me?'

HE: 'Hmmmmmgh'

DE: 'That's right, I've still got my tounge.' - Anon
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Post by L1qw1d »

hi. newb here. I thought that Sins were Characters, and therefore counted against that? I thought that carried from 6th into 7. so that in just a small run you could get your general and MAYBE a Sin?
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Bounce
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Post by Bounce »

Assassins no longer take up character slots meaning you can have as many as you have units which can take them. See page 95 of the army book.
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L1qw1d
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Post by L1qw1d »

Oh frakkin sweeeeet!
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