Are Musicians really worth it?

[Blaznak]

I just dunno. I keep buying musicians, but in xyz battles, I can only remember one memorable time they really did anything. That is a WHOLE lot of Banners I could buy.

What do you think?

~B~

[Demetrius]

They are cheap for what they do, which isnt much. Its better to pay the 5 points than to not pay it and lose combat because of it.

[Bies]

They are cheap for what they do, which isnt much. Its better to pay the 5 points than to not pay it and lose combat because of it.

yea musicians are the ONE command option I always buy except on 10 man bowmen units. Nearly every game either myself or my opponent go, "ah but i got a musician!"

They help you win draws, draw combats when you may loose to an opponents musician, +1Ld on rallying (you feel your dark riders from combat, you rally on a 9+ and then get to move again under feigned flight!) the tactical option there is enough reason to always take them

[Tethlis]

If your troops are fleeing, whether it's from a charge reaction, Terror, Panic or losing a combat, being able to rally reliably makes a huge difference.

Also, support units like repeater crossbowmen and Dark Riders often end up fighting against other fodder, and the combats are often decided by very narrow margins. I find that drawn combats are common among these sorts of units, and the musician can really help.

[Archangel]

same here hardly use musi's and will one day lose from it ahaha

[Bounce]

I am often really tempted to drop musicians but usually keep them for two reasons.
1) They are extremely cheap but can have a critical effect in the game. Losing drawn combats and failing to rally can be the difference between victory and defeat.
2) I have already nicely painted musicians and think units look better with full command.

[Rabidnid]

Our musos move most units from 8 to 9, or more rarely 9 to 10. This is a dramatic improvement in their chance to rally, and is worth it for that alone. Breaking ties is a useful additional attribute.

[Skilgannon]

I didn't have a musican on my Black Guard unit the other day when I was tight on points. I fought 2 rounds of combat against Temple guard lost both on musician failed my second test and got run down my Lord was also in the unit.

I went home and re wrote the list to get one in.

Taking additional leadership tests is asking for trouble. Don't ask for trouble enough will come your way in any event. Same goes for rallying for the points it is well worth it. The odds of failing my be low but the cost of failing is high is high so the actual risk of not having a musician is still quite high compared to the cost.

[Red...]

They seem very useful - fleeing dark riders rallying on a 9 is much better than an 8, and its damnably frustrating when you draw combat, but then lose because you didn't have one and your opponent did.

They're also cheap as chips: just 3 points for a warriors muso and still only 8 points for a cold one knight muso.

That said, I nearly ALWAYS forget to add the extra +1 when rallying troops, which drives me nuts!!! WTF is wrong with me that I never remember? Grrrr. I've got every other rule remembered by rote (except for slavers, which I use very rarely) but for some reason I never remember that one. *sigh*.

[Calisson]

BG are the only unit where the musician is not necessary:
they can't flee voluntarily (ITP), they won't ever panic,
they are Ld9 stubborn so if they loose to 0 margin, no big deal, especially if a BSB is nearby, and all the more that they keep their hatred next rounds.
Still useful as an insurance if the unit is of high value (like having a Lord inside).

COB/BSB-backed Khainite units may take the risk not to have muso:
WE are also ITP while frenzied, so no panic.
Stubborn & reroll test limits risks to flee a lost melee, all the more that WE and Execs are designed to win melee on the charge with ACR.

However, Execs may flee or panic, so you'd be happy to help rally.
WE loose a lot if they loose a charge by a small margin: no more hatred and no more frenzy.
Execs loose a lot too: they would hit last in next rounds, and no hatred.
For these reasons, better take a muso.

Other fighting units may all flee for any reason, the more expensive, the more you wish they'd rally reliably.
They may fluff their attacks, in which case loosing both the charge and hatred makes them less effective. When you NEED to win the melee, the muso won't help it, but at least it provides one more chance to tie.

Units not designed to fight that often need the muso more to help them rally. This is especially true for DR; for which it is a tremendous ability to flee and rally and keep moving & shooting after rallying.

Spearmen need all they can for improving their SCR. A tie is enough for a tar pit.

Possibly the RXBmen may select not to take a muso:
if they are charged by a fighty unit, chances to tie are low.
If they panic and flee, the board edge may be too close to grant them a chance to rally.
Many time, they won't be challenged at all in melee.


See also the Boot Camp.

[Blaznak]

I am often really tempted to drop musicians but usually keep them for two reasons.
...
2) I have already nicely painted musicians and think units look better with full command.

LOL!!!!!

I wish I could explain how much that is my mentality as well. How many battles have I lost because I wanted to play with the cool looking minis, not the badly sculpted ones...

~B~

[Crawd]

I almost always have a musician in every unit that can have a musician, they cost almost nothing and may change the battle because of them. I won several CR because of them, just winning by 1 because of this command when it's a draw, makes a huge difference.

In a combat unit: they worth it to prevent losing if the CR is a draw or even win the battle, so it worth it.

In a baiting/support unit: They worth it for the +1 leadership to rally test. so it really worth it.

So yeah, if you ask me if the musician worth it, yes it does in every unit. Never leave without them.

[Dublindawg]

I have musicians in all of my units and have considered dropping them from rxb units. However I always forget the +1 on the rally so I plan on writting up cards for each unit with +1 to Ld for rally in large type. It was devastating to see the entire center of my army collapse due to a chain reaction. The worst part is a complete unit of rxb failed, fled and went right off the table before even firing one shot. 115pts down the drain.

[The virgin forest]

I find that the only units where musicians are wasted are super cavalry like khorne and blood knights that are both ItP and and deliver a world of pain, and in the rare instances that these things lose, they've usually been wiped from the board anyway

[L1qw1d]

I'm w Blaz-but we need to put on a radio really loud and utilise psychological warfare.

[Auere]

Basic rule for me is:

Unless a unit is sacrificial or has 9+ ld, it needs a musician.

I actually normally run my DR naked at 85 points, because I like them in a more sacrificial role. If I were to give them rxbs a musician would be mandatory.

[Drainial]

RXB units definatly need them in my experiance, I never used to take them thinking 'oh well if they get into combat they will loose anyway', no, it doesn't work like that. Time and again they have been charged by fast cav and wood elf Alters (wood elves being then my usual opponant) and lost because of the lack of a musition to break the tie.

Larger infantry units simply need all the help they can get to break the enemy (or to stop the enemy from breaking them more likely), for so few points it is worth it. The only units it might not pay to shell out for are high impact units that realy need to break the enemy on the charge, for dark elves that realy just meens cold one knights, maybe whitch elves as well.

[Ugraczyk]

Quick question while on topic of musicians, if you general is within 12" and the fleeing unit has a musician can I use generals leadership +1 for musician?

[Rabidnid]

Quick question while on topic of musicians, if you general is within 12" and the fleeing unit has a musician can I use generals leadership +1 for musician?

Why wouldn't you be able to?

[Kheel]

MSU is critical in Fast Cav units, and archer units that holds one or more sorceresses that do NOT want to get into cc.

MSU can help you win a battle if tied, which is always nice.
And the few times you don't take MSU, that is the one time you would have needed it the most!

So yeah, they are well worth it and doesn't cost at all much.

And yes, the MSU always adds a +1 to rally rolls.

[Demetrius]

Kheel- MSU means many small units

[Kheel]

I think I've seen MSU used as Musicians, but maybe it was MUS and MSU is many small units... not sure

[Bounce]

Quick question while on topic of musicians, if you general is within 12" and the fleeing unit has a musician can I use generals leadership +1 for musician?

Why wouldn't you be able to?

If your Lord is Ld 10 then you don't get the +1.
Not that this happens very often.

[Scyloc]

Quick question while on topic of musicians, if you general is within 12" and the fleeing unit has a musician can I use generals leadership +1 for musician?

Why wouldn't you be able to?

Can you find a reference in BRB?

I recently played an opponent who insisted that i could EITHER use general or unit leadership+1 from mus, and that i should show how the reference in BRB to allow both. But i could not find it anywere.

[Layne]

The relevant pages are 81 and 82. The muso gives +1 Ld when rallying, and the General's Ld may be used for Rally tests. It does not say you can add the muso onus to your General's Ld, and it doesn't say you can't. He could say since the unit gains the bonus, then it adds to their Ld, not the General's. You could say in this case their Ld is the General's, and now we add on. You could also say that unlike for instance the rules for Stubborn, no specific exception is mentioned, so there isn't any.

So if he challenges you to show why you can, you challenge him to show why you can't. And as usual, the man with the best shin-kick-fu will win.