Protecting the cauldron from cannons

[Masterofdarkness]

Well the FAQ stated that multiple wound attacks can remove multiple wounds from war machines

How should we go about protecting out cauldrons?

[Desert icon]

Hope you pass your ward save? Really, there's not much you can do to hide that thing against cannons and true line of sight, it's too big to do anything sneaky with. Unless of course you're planning to hide it behind a mountain/wall/building/etc.

[Auere]

Toughness 10 helpes...

First the cannon has to not blow it self up and hit. Then 4+ to wound. Then 4+ ward save. Then 4 wounds.

I would say that the cauldron is still capable of withstanding two rounds of double cannon fire - and if you havent dealt with the cannons by then, you are proberbly loosing the game quite badly anyway.

Another good thing is that if the cannons do not kill the cauldron, their shots have been wasted... so there is a gain also!

[Sturguard]

If I did it correctly, the first cannon hit has a 10.5% chance of killing the CoB, when you factor in not misfiring, wounding, ward save and doing 4+ wounds- not very likely string of events but my main worry is if you do lose it, not only do you lose the CoB, but also your BSB (if that is the way you are plying it).

[L1qw1d]

confused.

shooting and rolling a 6 means you can roll another d6, and add it, but the table for shooting said T 10+ is impossible to touch- not even counting any cover or anything?

[Bitterman]

I think you are getting confused between needing a 10+ to hit (cannons don't roll to hit) and T10 (cannons have S10 to need a 4+ to wound).

[Thanee]

If I did it correctly, the first cannon hit has a 10.5% chance of killing the CoB, when you factor in not misfiring, wounding, ward save and doing 4+ wounds- not very likely string of events but my main worry is if you do lose it, not only do you lose the CoB, but also your BSB (if that is the way you are plying it).

The cannon also needs to hit, that is not under- or overshoot. The Cauldron is not a huge target, that is easily hit. You must hit the right 2-4 inches with the dice rolls.

I would say, let them fire at it! It does leave your vulnerable units free of that nuisance.

Bye
Thanee

[L1qw1d]

...yes. yes I am. sorry. VERY morning here lol

[Tethlis]

Dark Elves tend to be a very target-rich opponent for armies with cannons. Cauldron, Hydra, chariots, Dragons, Pegasi, characters who might fail Look Out Sir!, all sorts of things. If cannon shots are being directed at the Cauldron, that means that some of your other units aren't going to be shot up. Potentially losing the cannon is a small price to pay if any of your aforementioned units make it into a favorable combat.

Also, if you're really worried about it, consider setting up "baiting shots" to potentially draw your opponent's fire away from the Cauldron or split his fire. For example, placing your Hydra and a chariot in line with each other and the cannono. It's a very tempting shot, potentially taking out two targets, but the cannon still has to roll quite well (Hydra has Regen, 5 wounds, the Chariot has 4 wounds, both are fairly cheap in terms of VP). I used this to draw fire away from my Black Dragon last game, and my opponent went for it on a couple of different turns and allowed my dragon to get into favorable combats unscathed.

[Bounce]

Stick a Dragon in front of it as a screen.

[Maldor]

The cannon also needs to hit, that is not under- or overshoot. The Cauldron is not a huge target, that is easily hit. You must hit the right 2-4 inches with the dice rolls.

I would say, let them fire at it! It does leave your vulnerable units free of that nuisance.

Bye
Thanee

On that point, make sure to set your cauldron so that the long edge of its footprint runs perpendicular with the path of fire a cannon shot would use, thereby minimizing the availability to hit it.

[Allhailthemachine]

just put it behind a folding fortress if you want to make certain it is safe from cannon. Of course that means you loose 100 points from your total and xommiting yourself to a defensive strategy and im not sure Khain would like that!

[Lord tsunami]

or... kill the enemy cannon on turn 1 (2 if you start). he will get to shoot once, and if he wastes that on a 200p model he cant even be sure to down id just be happy

[Undeadcatd]

or... kill the enemy cannon on turn 1 (2 if you start). he will get to shoot once, and if he wastes that on a 200p model he cant even be sure to down id just be happy

how so? shade /DR?
Most empire player will protect their cannon with small shooting units.
Even they are careless , with random charge range we onlt get 1/2 chance to get the charge.

To stop the Cannon :

Magic :
Dark lore : chillwind does nothing , bladewind is cool
Death lore : short range , maybe a upgrade version of signature spell
Shadow lore :
most spell does nothing ,pit of shade got better targets than it
Metal spell : does nothing
Fire : the upgrade version of fire ball got range and hits

shooting :
RBX : need 6 to wound , 18 shoots will cause a wound
RBT : use mutlishot , 2 RBT will cause a wound

Close combat :
Shades , harpies , DR all suffer from same problem : unreliable charge range

[Maldor]

How do you figure chillwind does nothing? One six to wound and the thing can't shoot for a turn.

[Swab]

It probably won't prevent from firing because of the wording.

". . .any unit taking casualties cannot shoot in it's next turn."

The cannon is now a single profile with the crew counting as wounds. Removing a crewman is just like taking a wound off of a monster now so it wouldn't prevent it from shooting. I could be wrong but thats how I see it anyway.

Also Dark Magic has the perfect spell against warhmachines. Bladwind.

Because of it being close combat attacks, you don't have to worry about the cannon and just kill the crew off. Unless your just talking about signature spells.

[§]

Yesterday I played my first 8ed match and I can tell that cannons isnt that much of a problem. The Cauldron is very sturdy so it vill stand against a lot of cannonshoting. And a 4+ ward isnt to shabby on top of that ^^. It took three rounds of shooting total and it didn't take a singel wound. Also a little luck on my part.

/Shinzou

[Thanee]

Close combat :
Shades , harpies , DR all suffer from same problem : unreliable charge range

You can place Harpies 12.5" away with a single 20" march move usually. Out of range for grapeshot and within charge range unless you roll a triple 1.

That's hardly unreliable.

Bye
Thanee

[Haplo]

I had a great idea for a counter cannon unit. Noble on peg with the magical sea dragon cloak and the reroll AS item from the BRB. This will allow you to save cannon balls on a 3+ with a reroll and it frees up the pendent for another character. Just watch out for bolt throwers that allow no save.

[Maldor]

I thought cannon shots ignored armor saves.

[L1qw1d]

At this point, after facing a flaming dwarven cannon, i say "send in the harpies and hydras and take it down FAST!!!"
Harpies for the -2 cover, and then the warmachine hunting, hydra because it stops the cannonball no matter what.

Just as a note: only Grapeshot is noted as being Armour Piercing; beyond that, it only notes that they do Multiple Wounds (D6) in BR2. Runes change SOME of that (Flaming, etc) I don't know exactly what a Master Engineer is for anymore since all they really DID for a Cannon was raise it from D3 to D6...

[Babnik]

Use the old version of COB miniature. The one with wheels. It is smaller than last one with Khaine statues. You reduce the real line of sight threat.

[Lord tsunami]

ye... i must say that the TLoS is the dumbest rule ive ever seen... would be so easy to just say "there are 5(or what ever) "model sizes" a model can see and be seen over a model with a smaller size" and then just define each units model size in the appendix just as they did with "unit types". like this:

swarm:1
goblin, dwarf and such: 2
human, elf, orc and so on (and id put wolves and stuff here too): 3
Cavalry, trolls, ogres: 4
hydra, dragon and such: 5

in my gaming group we have house ruled it like that. its ridiculous that it should be a handicap to convert an awesome CoB with a huge statue instead of using the old school (and unimpressive) version.

join me in the struggle to abolish TLoS!

[Dangerous Beans]

I'm with you Tsunami! Though I think its cool getting down to look at models point of view, it does detract rather badly from the spirit of the game in terms of modelling opportunities (theres a thread on it in the Warhammer Discussion section here on D.net).

Could popping some harpy models in front it be a viable option? Im not entirely sure if the cannon has to aim at the harpies or can still aim at the statue (because its a bigger model and can still be seen over harpy models).

Dark Riders are theoretically more efficient at the charging on turn 2 role (they cant charge on a turn that they 'vanguard' move) as they have their vanguard move (12") then march (18") and then charge (11" minimum) = total of 41", the harpies can muster 20" + 12" (min charge) = 32"

Quite remarkable really!

I think the most obvious is a combination of these tactics: offer multiple targets (Hydras make especially handy targets due to the regen save) and also threaten the enemy with dark riders/harpies/possibly shades too.

I think theyll be under too much choice/pressure and probably won't effectively target the cauldron properly: just make sure you have some of these elements in your army!

- Beanz

[Killerk]

If you don't want your opponent targetting your CoB, give him a better target, Hydra, Manticor, or some thing else.