Breaking units out of buildings

How to beat those cowardly High Elves?

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Burizan
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Breaking units out of buildings

Post by Burizan »

I have found particular difficulty in removing large, ~800 point units (in particular mannfred/regen bsb in grave guard unit) from buildings. This often means I can't begin to get enough VPs from my opponent, as frankly I don't have enough combat rounds (half per player turn) to kill them.

I'm just wondering what tactics you use, I have currently relied on units like witch elves/frenzy corsairs or a hydra, but I have found that a decent armour/ward save or simply flaming attacks is enough to stop me. If I still have a mage alive I can sometimes force a mindrazor or something through, but this isn't reliable enough.

Any ideas?
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Post by Eglard »

Well if the unit costs around 800pts you can still win without destroying it. Just kill everything else and avoid being killed. One nice trick would be to place someone with the Ring near the building, effectively stopping Mandfred from casting.
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Dalamar
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Post by Dalamar »

Ignore the building, snipe Mannfred out with Death Spells and leave them stuck in there. They can't charge out of the building, so your opponent is wasting around 800 points of combat troops.

It's different when you're playing the Watchtower Scenario... but that's one out of 6.
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Sulla
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Post by Sulla »

Remember manfred will be sniping you with those same death spells (at ld10 and with the stats to shrug it off largely himself)

You're better off completely ignoring them and hitting the rest of his army IMO. It will be very easy for the VC to keep reraising the causualties suffered while buffing themselves and debuffing your troops.

I'd be pretty happy knowing such a large amount of the VC army is not floating around vanhels-ing into my flanks while I attack the rest of his army.
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Meteor
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Post by Meteor »

Yea absolutely, simply ignore them. When they realise that, they'll pop out of the building at their own accord. Even in watch tower mission, ignore them for most of the game and go around killing the rest of his army first, before coming back around and concentrate on kicking the remaining unit out.

It's not easy, especially when such a large elite chunk is sitting in there with regen. Unless you have some form of flame attacks, or fire magic to give you flame sword, you're going to suffer. It's also why it's good practice to give the flame banner to one of your units. It's only 10pts, but it saves you more than it wastes the space and points. I give it to my medium block of WE and they handle all the regen targets quite well.

If it's not the watch tower mission, you can actually trap them in by surrounding the building with things like Harpies and Shades. Then he can't move out :)
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Burizan
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Post by Burizan »

Thanks for the tips guys, there's usually a lv4 mage in there. I generally take shadow magic with my single level 2 as it complements my army well, and as mentioned I don't think death magic would be effective enough.

The manfred unit in particular is irritating because it can leave the building and still van hel's, meaning I need to keep a very large distance to avoid obliteration. Often he has 75% of his points in that one unit, and can do enough damage to me with magic that I can't make up the VPs. I don't like playing with or against denial but I suppose I should put the pressure on him if I haven't any other options.

I have only recently tried putting flame banner on the witch elves, though they got turned into clanrats via 13th spell on turn one, but I can see it being a good place for it. Also surrounding the building is a brilliant plan, what are the criteria for not being able to leave (ie how surrounded does it have to be?)
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Post by Gethsemane »

They have to be able to have a model in the back rank that is 'touching' the building I believe. And of course be an inch away from your models.
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Meteor
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Post by Meteor »

When a unit leaves a building, it basically undergoes a reform, with its rear touching the building as Gethsemane said. So if you're 1" away from the building on all sides, he can't get out and reform without touching your units or be 1" away. It also means your units don't have to be as wide either when you're closer.
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Jacks -Shade
- WS 5 - - S 3 - - T 2 - - D 6 - - I 5 -

Equipment
Short Sword, MC Long Sword*, Dagger, RxB & RHB [20/10] MC Shade Cloak, 4 Throwing Daggers, 3x Healing Vials, 451C, [3]Dark Venom, [4]Unseen Chains, Food, Dark Steed- Spike

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*Magical properties possibly imbued
Burizan
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Post by Burizan »

Sounds good. Better get me some more harpies!
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Dalamar
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Post by Dalamar »

Though he can just smack the harpies with a magic missile and van hels out of the building if he really needs to.
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Calisson
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Post by Calisson »

Leaving a building (p.127) has been slightly FAQed:
“Place the unit in any desired
formation, with at least one model of the rear rank 1" away
from the building and no model within 1" of the building.”

Basically, you place the unit in any legal formation (even different from the formation it had when it entered the building) and you cannot move further.
No model can be closer than 1".
The rear must be at 1".
No model can be further than twice its normal movement away.


With this slight modification,
if you have enough troops to prevent any gap allowing a single R&F to be at 1" from the building and farther than 1" from your troops, then the tactics is valid.
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Meteor
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Post by Meteor »

Obviously it has its risks. And you're no better off than him bunkering his 800pt Graveguard unit in the building if you use R&F troops of your own to trap him. But it's a method to render him useless.

Or you could at least dictate which side(s) he's only allowed to exit from.
What's mine is mine, What's yours is mine.
Now that we understand each other, lets get down to business.

Jacks -Shade
- WS 5 - - S 3 - - T 2 - - D 6 - - I 5 -

Equipment
Short Sword, MC Long Sword*, Dagger, RxB & RHB [20/10] MC Shade Cloak, 4 Throwing Daggers, 3x Healing Vials, 451C, [3]Dark Venom, [4]Unseen Chains, Food, Dark Steed- Spike

Skills
Basic Stealth, Awareness, TWF, Suithenlu Khythan, Ride

Magic Item
Eye of the Jabberwock

*Magical properties possibly imbued
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