Khainite Army - What Would/Wouldn't Be In It?

[Guinea pig hydra]

I'm only just underway with my general purpose 1500pt Druchii force, but I was considering a future endeavour may be a Khainite specialised force - or more specifically a force from Har Ganeth. So aside from the obvious units of WE and Execs (along with Death Hags, Assassins and COB's) what units would be found in a specialised Khainite force from the City of Executioners?Which definitely wouldn't? Any advice much obliged.

[Tethlis]

A Manticore is a good choice, if you feel like going that route; it's said to be an embodiment of Khaine.

Similarly, spearmen, crossbowmen and reaper bolt throwers are "generic" enough to be present in every major Druchii city, and Dark Riders are likely employed to help round up escaped slaves for sacrifice. Similarly, Harpies have a strong connection to Khaine and Witch Elves. Assassins obviously have a strong place in a Khainite list as well. Shades and Cold Ones don't violate the theme, but they don't do much to actively support it either, so you could go either way with them.

[Dalamar]

Corsairs and Bolt Throwers would be out IMO, they're too marine for a khainite focused list.

Cold One Knights and Chariots aren't servants of the temple, and aren't *that* commonplace (they're nobles after all) so I would steer away from them.

Hydras should fit as they are big, nasty, bloodthirsty monster. Definitely to Khaine's liking.

Shades are "savages" I would say they don't follow Khaine as much as other druchii, instead favoring wilder druchii gods.

I would focus the list on spearmen, crossbowmen, harpies, witch elves, executioners, hydras, death hags, manticore master, assassin or two and a sorceress (Khaine, unlike Khorne has nothing against bloodshed caused by magic) focusing on some mass destruction lore, like fire.

[Calisson]

Corsairs and Bolt Throwers would be out IMO, they're too marine for a khainite focused list.

Agree.
The reverse is true: myself, as a sailor, don't have any Exec nor WE!


In a Khainite army, I'd expect to find:
Characters:
1. Hellebron riding a Manticore!
One or two COB (one can be general, the other one BSB).
Shadowblade and regular assassins.
2. Sorceresses are not excluded, so why not a Sorceress on Manticore?
A dagger-happy sorceress can be justified, too.
3. Already too many characters.

Core
1. No specific Khainite core besides WE when Hellebron is there.
2. Spearmen are OK. DR could be considered.
I'm not sold on Harpies: they cannot be blessed, showing that Khaine does not love them much.
3. RXBmen are less fluffy. Corsairs are even more off fluff.

Special
1. Many WE, Execs, Tullaris included.
2. COK, COC could be found in the city.
3. BG, Shades sound less likely.

Rare.
1. Hydra can be blessed, so obviously it should be part of the gang. The more the merrier.
3. Naval gunfire is not much consistent.

[Guinea pig hydra]

and a sorceress (Khaine, unlike Khorne has nothing against bloodshed caused by magic) focusing on some mass destruction lore, like fire.

This was what I was concerned about. I didn't want to rule myself out of an entire phase but didn't know if taking a Sass would destroy the theme/fluff, which is obviously the most important aspect of the army.

[Tethlis]

I disagree about the bolt throwers. Guinea Pig Hydra mentioned a Khainite theme, but he also mentioned making a list from Har Ganeth, which opens up some other options and broadens the scope a bit. Bolt throwers are used in the Druchii navy, true, but are also a part of the defensive garrisons for Druchii cities and watch towers. I see spearmen, crossbowmen and bolt throwers all falling into the same category of militia support.

[Brad]

I belive that the RBT was originally adapted from the weapons on the Black Arks, but I personally see it now as a part of the regular standing army/garrison forces so would put it in the same category as spears and xbows. The crew figures, for example, are closer in appearance to the regular army dudes than the marines.

As for sorceresses, there's supposed to be fierce rivalry between the cult of Khaine and the covenant of sorceresses - to the point where, in a previous army book, sorceresses and assassins were not permitted to be in the same unit. I would avoid a sorceress for thematic reasons, although I'd probably want to include one (call it a Priest(ess) of Khaine if you need to justify it) just so you don't get totally whacked in the magic phase.

[Dante valentine]

I thought that the RBT's we use are the ones that are on the black arks and decks of our ships, so they can be used both at sea and then unbolted and carried onto the battlefield? Not sure if that is correct or not, but i would say that even the smallest Druchii outpost would have plenty of RBT's and so, i dont think including them in a Khainite list would be a problem in terms of the fluff.

Spearmen, RXB, are going to be your mainstay units. I can't see why a Khainite army would be heavy with shade units but i'm sure, for sufficient bribes and likewise, they could include a few shades. (maybe use the models for the manhide flayers to represent some absolutely crazy shades, rather than "normal" ones).

Manticores are going to be great - being the most favoured beasts in the eyes of the Druchii in regards to Khaine.

I agree with Brad that a Sorceress may be a little difficult to work into the equation. Maybe go with the War Online idea with a Disciple of Khaine idea, giving your hero's plenty of magic protection items and try it without a sorceress?

Alternatively, write a bit of your own fluff and use male mages from exiled bloodlines or maybe even captured Mages from other races that have been enslaved and awaiting execution. For added fun deploy them next to the cauldron of blood.... their performance is being very closely judged and if they fail...well, the big brass cauldron is there for a reason.

While this may not be a power gaming build and it might make things difficult, it would be interesting to play IMO ;-)

What i would avoid would be: Corsairs (makes no sense), chariots and CoK's (maybe one chariot with a hag in (i know they cant take them as options but just class her as a Hero and model it that way)), and too much of anything that is more interested in avoiding melee (RXB, Bolt Throwers, Shades, Dark Riders)).

Anyway, they are my opinions. As much as I pay homage to Khaine, my faviroute theme is that of Shades and Cavalry, so i could never go too far down that route.

Have fun!

D

[Maldor]

My first question is, how open to conversion are you? You can use the rules for many of our units using alternate models to better fit your theme. For example, I run a unit of Witch Elves with SDCs using the rules for Corsairs with the SSS as a Temple sanctioned raiding squad that captures whole villages and takes them back for sacrifice. Similarly, although BG don't fit the theme in and of itself, however, it's easy to imagine that one of the 20 Towers operates in the belief (with the help of Malekith's propaganda agents) that the Witch King is the living embodiment of the Lord of Murder.

However, if you want to keep things simple and go by given fluff, I would say that all our missile troops can well compliment a ToK army. In the 6th ed book it was said that those unfortunate enough to be left incapacitated but alive by DE missiles would soon find themselves on the altars of Khaine.

As for magic, the lores available to us are all very murdery, though I personally feel Shadow and Death are the most inline with how our assassins operate.

[Guinea pig hydra]

Thanks all for your replies

1. The ToK theme is more important than being from Har Ganeth. As such I'm not too keen on using RBT. Crossbowmen on the other hand I'm still undecided on.

2. I really don't want to completely ignore the magic phase but as has been said, and I agree with, that a Sass would not go with the fluff of the army. So I think I'm just gonna have to go with the RoH and a Dispel Scroll somewhere.

3. I can see Harpies fitting the fluff more than Shades. I couldn't see the Temple actually bribing anyone and Shades are a bit too solitary to join an organisation such as the ToK. Plus, as Dalamar said, they have their own Gods to worry about. Harpies on the other hand would probably flock to the battlefield in their droves at the amount of blood being spilt.

4. Agreed that Corsairs, COK, COC and BG are out of the question.

5. Don't much fancy using Crone. I know WE as Core is good times, but I don't like the character. Plus she seems a bit more Ghrond than HG (I know I said Khainite was more important but shh)

6. @ Maldor. Not very is the answer lol. I'd prefer to use given and existing models just to save the explanation and confusion.

[Malus99]

I would say: spearmen, crossbowmen, maybe DR. Harpies are thought to either be the souls of slain witch elves or embodiments of khaine or so it says in the fluff, very khainite. Witch elves, execs and then a hydra or two for rare. Character wise I think hellebron is worth considering, and she is certainly not more Ghrond than Har Ganeth, Hellebron lives in Har Ganeth and loathes Ghrond because Ghrond is Morathi's lair and pet project. Otherwise obviously there are Death Hags and the CoBs.

Consider Malus, he is the scourge of Khaine, Khaine's chosen warrior to bring blood and ruination to the world, there is nobody more favoured by Khaine than the bearer of the warpsword.

Sorceresses: I think a sacdagger sorceress is worth considering and is fluffy enough. Otherwise, have you read the Malus Darkblade novels? Urial is a sorcerer and servant of Khaine, I did up rules for Urial, you can find them in my Chosen of Khaine thread which is in the history of the druchii section (I think). I made a urial model from the high elf hero with axe and shield and simply replaced the shield with a warrior's arm which the shields are stuck onto. You could use a Urial model (or another disciple of Khaine) and use the rules for sorceresses for him if you want to include magic without Morathi's girls.

[Guinea pig hydra]

I stand corrected on Hellebron being too Ghrond However, I'm still unconvinced on taking her, she doesn't seem worth the points (WE as core is a nice idea but they are a bit too squishy to be the centre of your battleline which is the point of core). I think a MantiLord, and DH with Cauldrons may be the way to go.

I love Malus. I really really do. As a character he's unparalleled. I am in the process of reading the Chronicles (in the second omnibus) and I share your love. In the game however, I hate what they've done to him. He's not worth 275 pts at all. He's only decent when you unleash Tz'arkan, and then if he's in a unit he starts going through them if you're not in combat (and there's no way of ensuring you won't be), he will probably be in a unit of COK for NJADB, and you can't afford to lose 27pts worth of models in a small unit. So i agree, as Scourge of Khaine Malus would be perfect for this list; I would love to take him in an army, this or my general force; but sadly I can't.

I don't like the Sac Dagger (shock horror I know), and I wouldn't like to use non-GW rules models. I understand why you want to and fully encourage anyone who does, but I can't be bothered faffing round explaining, particularly when my gaming will be on a Sunday night at GW solely. So I wish the best of luck to your Urial but the cripple will not be part of my force (that was very consciously not meant to be offensive in case I get in trouble for it lol)

[Malus99]

Sounds like a plan, I can see your reasoning in all of that, have you got a list ready for what you want to take then? With Urial, I just meant that if you want to take magic without a sorceress to keep it in line with your army fluff, you could just call a model an acolyte of Khaine and use the rules for sorceresses for him, which just requires you telling your opponent before the game that that model is a sorceress. It says in the Malus darkblade books that many of the temple's acolytes and even the Shayar Nuan learn some sorcery, I don't think it is entirely beyond Hellebron to subvert Morathi's girls by teaching magic to her own followers, Hellebron spends all of her time trying to get back at Morathi.

Either way good luck with your Khainite force, The call of blood is answered in sundered flesh!

[Guinea pig hydra]

Can't decide between these Lord/Hero combinations...

1. Crone Hellebron on Manticore/Master on Manticore/COB (BSB)/Lvl 2 Sorcerer

2. MantiLord/COB (BSB)/COB/Lvl 2 Sorcerer

3. Crone/The two COB/Lvl 2 Sorcerer

I'm favouring the second option but need help from people with experience.

[Valkyre]

I feel shooting is not khainite, which is up your face with daggers and stuff

I do think corsairs fill the fluff nicely, expescially if ye tool them up as apprentice witch elves, thye are alos melee orientated maniacs after all.

a big no would be any shooting and cold ones (knights or chariots) and black guard.

Hellebron is nice, but definetly suffers from the weak defence trouble any death hag not in a cauldron suffers from.

for a sorc, i would feel fine with one with sac dagger (sacrificing for murdering, very khainite in my opinion) but no second one without a dagger (unless ye give it the dagger of hotek for fluff reasons).

hydra, rather not.

so, core: corsairs and harpies
special execs and WE
rare, nothing
chars, lvl 4 with sac dagger
2 DH with cob
an assassin or 2

Hellebron, will unfortunatly not survive, was a great choice in 7th, not anymore unless ye just use waves and waves of WE and stick hellebron in a cob (thou hellebron in cob with BSB with hag greaf is very good point denial, hellebron can join one, not buy one after all)

[Uberskooper]

Interestingly enough, I have been trying to come up with a Khanite army.

Like others have mentioned before, include at least one of each variety of Khanite units. In my list I have Witch Elves, Executioners, A Cauldron of Blood, an Assassin, and Harpies.

I also included a unit of Cold One Knights with a Dreadlord for a "crusading noble" theme. The idea is that a noble has joined the Temple's armies in an attempt to gain favor, as well as for other political reasons. I also included spearmen and crossbows as my core troops to represent the noble's personal soldiers contributing to the force.

I have one level 2 sorceress as part of the force for magical support, but I have tried to keep magic to a minimum on the count of the rivalry between the Temple of Khaine and the Convent of Sorceresses.