Horde formations

How to beat those cowardly High Elves?

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Mustangtc
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Horde formations

Post by Mustangtc »

Ok so i've just been thinking about horde formations.

The benefits of a horde formation (10 by x models) are that they get to attack in an extra rank in close combat where cavalry do not get mount assisting attacks.

The negatives are: size (unit can be unweildly), prime target for spells (dwellers ruins horde elves) and all but the first rank have their attacks profile reduced to 1.

Condsidering this I am thinking that units most suited to horde formation are single attack models as they are efficient even in 10x3 or 10x4 (spear) formations.

Consequently the best DE units to horde are: RXB, Spears, Execs and Handbow Corsairs.

Witches, Black Guard and AHW Corsairs however are sub0optimal as they lose out on a lot of attacks.

From this I will be looking at hording 35-40 RXBs with shields in my army for their two line shooting,, lack of need for mobility, formational options (3x10, 7x5, 5x7) and ++6 wards save.

Thoughts?

-MustangTC
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Post by Setomidor »

Agreed, the units gaining the most from Horde formations are single-attack models. I would however put the Execs up as the most suitable unit, and Warriors second, but that's just me. In a bigger perspective, the _best_ units for Horde formations are actually Monstorous Infantry, since they may use their full attacks from all ranks.

The thing to consider is actually not whether to be in Horde formation or not. Units like Black Guard, AHW Corsairs and Witches always want to be exactly 2 models wider than their opponents, creating an intersting "Rock, Paper, Scissors" situation with unit widths:

Assume large unit of Witch Elves (WE) against Empire Spearmen (ES):

- If ES are 5 models wide, the WE wants to be 7
- If WE are 7 wide, the ES probably wants to be 7 wide too (retain some ranks while getting another 6 attacks)
- If ES are 7 models wide, the WE wants to be horde (9 fighting + extra attacks from extra ranks)
- If the WEs are horde, the ES wants to be 5 wide again to avoid some return attacks.

That said, I think a good number for rXbs is between 20 and 30. Read Meteors splendid battlereports for inspiration on using large blockx of rXbs!
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Tethlis
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Post by Tethlis »

I often find myself running my elite infantry 10-wide. This is rarely to take advantage of the extra rank of attacks, but more to make sure I have maximum frontage against all opponents and to minimize the damage I receive from templates. I don't always have the luxury of a quick reform if I'm advancing against shooting-heavy opponents, so already having my Black Guard ready to do maximum damage across maximum frontage while simultaneously minimizing template hits is a nice advantage.
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L1qw1d
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Post by L1qw1d »

I usually run 5 or 6 wide (and am thankful for Musicians lol), but I was thinking:

How are they unwieldy? Basically, the whole unit charges if ONE tip touches, and if you can fit on the charge, the 'close the door' forces a maximization of frontage. This is just theory-Hammer.
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Sulla
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Post by Sulla »

It's usually easy enough to fit one horde width unit in your battleline. It would only be unwieldy trying to manouver two around the field.

That said, I often try to position terrain on the battlefield to limit where horde units can go...
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Thanee
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Post by Thanee »

A friend of mine has played his Chaos Marauders (with Greatweapons) as units of 50 in 5x10 formation up until they hit combat, than combat reform them into 10x5 horde formation for the ensuing grindfest.

I once faced an O&G Troll horde (6x3)... ouch! :lol:
Those guys were complete overkill... unfortunately for him, it didn't help. They were too much of a point sink and just fed some small sacrificial units while the rest of his army was helpless against my real troops. ;)

I think RXB are too expensive for using them as a horde, and too unwieldy when using their Repeater Crossbows. Execs are similar in cost, but at least get a potent attack for the price. Warriors seem the ideal choice for DE to play as a horde.

Like Tethlis I also field (or reform) my elite units (esp. BG) into very wide formations to maximize front-rank attacks.

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Thanee
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Tethlis
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Post by Tethlis »

If it were legal, I would field Black Guard in 10x3, and I will certainly use Witch Elves in 10x3 if I start playing with them more regularly. For us, the ability to minimize templates and have the maximum number of models corner-to-corner with the enemy is a great reason to field 10-wide formations. Any extra attacks from the third rank is simply a useful bonus.
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Yagdresil
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Post by Yagdresil »

i am in the process of testing out an army list around hording WE...the first match they preformed really well...will keep you aprised on further matches.
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Post by Sulla »

Horde executioners have always served me well. They do rely on a 5+ ward from the nearby cauldron to help out. Having a shadow lvl4 to mitigate enemy high strength attacks has helped against chaos too, but I suspect a dark sorceress halving the number of surviving enemies, or a metal mage giving them scaly skin would have been just as handy.
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Post by Bloodsinger »

I ran a 40 unit horde of corsairs to GREAT effect using our favourite, the Mindrazor.

With the serpent banner, and buffed by the cauldron, they are pumping out 4 attacks each from just the front guys, then the 20 more for the two ranks behind, for a grand total of 60 attacks! Mindrazored to Strength 8, they will melt ANYTHING they touch.

Of course, you can't ALWAYS get a charge off on another horde unit like I did, but I'd argue that pretty much ANYTHING fed into this meat-grinder of a unit is going to go down. Fast.

I used to horde the warriors, but I just found that they would lose combat after combat, and I couldn't protect them properly. (Sorc bunker)

So now it's a horde of Corsairs, and a smaller bunker for the Sorceress. (or a peg!)
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Post by Jbtheslipperking »

Ideally the Exec is the best unit for horde formation. S6 KB is painfull for most units. But they are ASL, expencive and voulenrable - so tough coise. I did once use the single rank trick against a dwarf player and it worked fine. If your opponent is not to sensitive about such tactics. Need the COB for making them steadfast ofc.
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Mustangtc
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Post by Mustangtc »

Single rank trick?
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Masked jackal
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Post by Masked jackal »

I think he means the conga line.
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L1qw1d
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Post by L1qw1d »

you can't Conga. Simple as that.
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Bloodsinger
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Post by Bloodsinger »

L1qw1d wrote:you can't Conga. Simple as that.


Yep, from the BRB "...as long as no model moves more than double their movement"

Not allowed, I'd say.
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