Dark Elf Wishlisting

How to beat those cowardly High Elves?

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Dirty Mac
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Dark Elf Wishlisting

Post by Dirty Mac »

There is a topic over at WarSeer.com, that is about Wishlists for the new DE book, if it ever gets written.

I thought you guys might like to look at it, or possibly start our own one here.

http://www.warseer.com/forums/showthread.php?t=325536
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Post by Red... »

Interesting topic. Of course the theme for 8th ed books so far suggests that we'll lose most of our magic items, our models will become a little bit cheaper, and we may get a few new special characters, an extra monster or two and possibly a new unit type or two. Dark magic will be pumped up a bit. Other than that, I doubt we'll see anything too revolutionary.
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Post by Jadin »

I posted onto that thread(I'm AlphaLegionMarine over there), but this is what I really want out of our next book:

Rules for:
Slave Giant
Those Steel Giants the BRB mentions with souls of killers powering them
Mountain Chimera
Sea Serpents(they had that rule in the BRB for a reason)
Cheaper Reaper Bolt Throwers

Plastic Model for:
Cold One Chariot
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Post by Phierlihy »

I honestly can't say I care a whole lot what everyone else wants. GW sure doesn't so the new book will end up being whatever it will end up being. I think a lot of people are going to be very sad when the new book comes out though. Enjoy what you have while you have it because a return to the 6th edition book could be right around the corner.
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Post by Rabidnid »

I actually don't have a problem with our book, and since WE still don't have a new book, I would suspect we won't be seeing one for a while.

The only thing we have that I don't run is RBT. I'f it fire 3x S-6 bolts and did away with the current multishot I would be running them again.
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Post by Dark reaper »

I don't see a return to the 6th edition book happening. The books released so far this edition has been pretty well balanced IMO, our 6th edition book was just terrible.
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Post by Sisstros »

What I will really miss is the Tome of Furion.

If we keep it or get an item that gives a Sorceress the Loremaster ability I will be overjoyed.

I find having the extra roll at the start of the game means I almost always get the right combination of spells whether I'm running Dark or Metal magic.

That said looking at the Orc & Goblin book, there are some really handy items from the few that are available, so hopefully the same will be true of the Dark Elf selection when we get our new book.
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Post by Sulla »

IMO OK is pretty poorly balanced in terms of the cheapness of mournfangs and ironblasters. I think there are going to be a lot of unhappy players with the future armybooks expecting to see units of that quality and cheapness in their books.

I'm keen to see what they will do with a lot of our issues;
fighter character fragility/damage output compared to points better spent elsewhere,
no-brainer cauldron BSB,
mindrazor+multiattacks+rerolls+high I,
unlimited casting + extra power dice generation,
fragile monster mounts vs increased utility of monsterous cav mounts,
general suckyness of special characters,
internet hate of hydras,
updating dark magic for 8th edition (will we still get 2 spells that can potentially damage every model in a unit? will chillwind get buffed in any way? will we keep bladewind, seeing as it reliably kills a war machine every casting? will we see a return of dominion, or even older edition dark magic spells?
what will they do for the lacklustre RBT?
will Khainite stay? If so, will we be able to get magic items into our khainite units somehow?

As for new units, I'm not too fussed. GW love to introduce something new into every armybook, but being new, they are usually pretty 'hit or miss'. Could be overpriced/underpowered or the complete opposite. No point worrying about that right now.
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Post by Dalamar »

Judging by the books so far, Druchii will get at least one new unit. And if it's only one unit, it will be BIG.

Like the giants of steel fueled by the souls of murderers. ;) I'd love those.

Perhaps as a monstrous infantry unit, but I'd rather see them as something really big (and for Khaine's sake, give us a monstrous infantry unit already! We're supposed to be masters of monsters but for some reason only manage to grab the big ones)
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Games Drawn: 33 (15%)
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8th Edition army book W/D/L:
Druchii: 36/4/16
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Post by Drainial »

Hmmm steel giants with the souls of murderers; is anyone else reminded of robo cop two?
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Post by Archon_matt »

I'm not too keen on those steel giants. They sound big, clunky, and chunky. Then again, if the model is done well...
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Post by Dalamar »

Imagine giant suits of executioner armor. Without the executioner inside it. Doesn't feel clunky or chunky at all. They're not dwarven golems.
7th edition army book:
Games Played: 213
Games Won: 114 (54%)
Games Drawn: 33 (15%)
Games Lost: 66 (31%)

8th Edition army book W/D/L:
Druchii: 36/4/16
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Post by Sulla »

May as well say an avatar of Khaine if you want a giant metal swordsman...
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Post by Dalamar »

I prefer examples of Druchii ingenuity over appearances of a crazy god.
7th edition army book:
Games Played: 213
Games Won: 114 (54%)
Games Drawn: 33 (15%)
Games Lost: 66 (31%)

8th Edition army book W/D/L:
Druchii: 36/4/16
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Post by Omnichron »

I hope we'll see an improved manticore and reaper bolt throwers. Also, I hope for elites with options instead of having what we have today, elites which can't be modified much at all.

We'll probably see a higher cost hydra (even though I think it dies quickly enough as it is today). I think we'll also see more of the cult aspect as well... maybe cavalry? Witches riding some monstrous mount into combat? Well, the latter is wishes more than what I think we'll get.

Anyways, I think we don't need alot of new stuff (except maybe one more rare choice), just getting things balanced up.... we need new plastic kits and models though.
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Post by Dirty Mac »

I don't really know what i'd like, Maybe the BG cap removed, or BG base st4 instead of
3, I see some of their(Warseer's) posts, but it looks a bit like Cry babyism. Banning shadow magic from DE, making our Lvl 4's only able to take dark magic. making PoD the Dark magic Lore attribute., or the unlimited dice ability the Lore attribute.

Totally ignoring that Morathi used the power of chaos to boost her magic ability, and possibly teaching it to other DE sorceress's.

We have Druchii sorcery, HE have ASF, Lizzards have Cold Blooded. , Skaven have lead from the back. Empire has Detachments, WoC re-roll panic tests, Armies have their own special "Gimmick"
But they want to wipe ours out of the book.
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Post by Omnichron »

Dirty Mac wrote:But they want to wipe ours out of the book.


Who are they? If you mean from the Warseer forum, it seems like there's lots of the "Anti-DE" guys around that want Dark Elves down to where they were in 6th edition.

We will keep a army wide rule, and I don't think the Hatred we have now is bad... it's just that the points for some of our units will also be changed combined with this and their own abilities.

What I think is funny, are those that thinks the Hydra should cost 230-250 with the same rules as of today. Seriously, when you meet tournament armies with 2k points, your two hydras might end up just being a waste of points, even with the current cost. I'm even considering dropping hydras entirely as I will meet forces who can take out two hydras in max 2 rounds. Sure, up the point cost for the hydra, but then it has to get stronger too, because a 250 point hydra is a waste.
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Post by Dark reaper »

It is actually quite weird that so many people believe that the Hydra should cost more than a HPA.
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Post by Sisstros »

I think we will keep Eternal Hatred as our race specific advantage and Druchii Sorcery, which is by far the most decisive advantage Dark Elf players have at the moment, will be changed to be a +1 to cast or something similar. Like the High Elves have with their +1 to dispel.

I am fond of my Hydra for aesthetic reasons but realistically the 175 points could probably be spent better elsewhere. Sure sometimes the Hydra will munch through an entire army on its own, but if your opponent has any sense they will be able to zap it before it can do any damage.

I have never played against an army with two Hydra, but if I did end up facing one I would be fairly confident of getting them both before they reached combat.

If it was as expensive as an Abomination, would any of us take one?
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Post by Phierlihy »

Omnichron wrote:What I think is funny, are those that thinks the Hydra should cost 230-250 with the same rules as of today. Seriously, when you meet tournament armies with 2k points, your two hydras might end up just being a waste of points, even with the current cost. I'm even considering dropping hydras entirely as I will meet forces who can take out two hydras in max 2 rounds. Sure, up the point cost for the hydra, but then it has to get stronger too, because a 250 point hydra is a waste.


Dark Reaper wrote:It is actually quite weird that so many people believe that the Hydra should cost more than a HPA.


Sisstros wrote:I am fond of my Hydra for aesthetic reasons but realistically the 175 points could probably be spent better elsewhere. Sure sometimes the Hydra will munch through an entire army on its own, but if your opponent has any sense they will be able to zap it before it can do any damage.

I have never played against an army with two Hydra, but if I did end up facing one I would be fairly confident of getting them both before they reached combat.

If it was as expensive as an Abomination, would any of us take one?


Only on a Dark Elf message board would you see these kinds of comments...
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Post by Sisstros »

phierlihy wrote:Only on a Dark Elf message board would you see these kinds of comments...


Indeed :)

However I would argue that a Dark Elf player is in a better position to understand the strengths and weaknesses of the army's individual units than an opponent who only plays against Dark Elves every now and again.
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Post by Phierlihy »

A fair point however I think it's perfectly valid to both compare the Hydra to what else is out there. Just because there are a few things out there of similar power level doesn't mean it isn't heads and shoulders above the majority of monsters out there (pardon the pun). Giants, Shaggoths, anything from the Beastmen book, and the list goes on and on. And those monsters are ALL more expensive! A Hydra isn't 175 points of Goblins that you can ignore for the entire game. It has to be dealt with or it is going to wreck stuff.
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Post by Red... »

Hydras for 200 points would probably be fair. In 7th ed they should have costed more, but now with the massive increase in flaming weapons, the increase in impact of flaming weapons on regen saves, and the limitation of breath weapons to once per game, I think 200 points is probably a fair cop. In all likelihood they'll stay the same price - GW likes to ship big monsters, they cost more to the consumer for less to the manufacturer. There's also a general trend in GW to push points costs down, not up, because the cheaper that models cost to field the more of them we need to buy. Don't expect to see prices of any of the models to really go up.

Big monsterwise, I expect to see them give mantis a 4+ save (same as in the SoM expansion) and possibly the other add ons too. I would also not be suprised to see a new monster or two - such as a chimera - possibly either as ridden options or as a monsters and handlers. I don't think we'll see any monstrous infantry - there's no real precedent of them giving these to elves (except wood elves, and I don't think treekin things count) and I don't think they'll go this way. We may see more heavy cavalry options though, similar to the TK expansion in this arena. I think we may see chariot units too.

I think eternal hatred will stay, but druchii sorcery may be tweaked with slightly. Power dice spamming is on the decrease, so I think both sacrificial dagger and darkstar cloak will probably either be binned or tweaked. The pendant will be made an arcane item, dropped or nerfed - and about time too.

But overall I think my original prediction stands: slightly cheaper models, less magic items, a couple of extra special charactrs (including upgrading Tullaris and Kouran), an extra monster or two, and possibly an extra unit type or two.
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Post by Omnichron »

phierlihy wrote:Only on a Dark Elf message board would you see these kinds of comments...


Well, I guess it's the player that looses the hydra in the first round that sees how easy they are beaten. One magic phase with the right spell is all that's needed.

I'll go as far as saying it's easy to deal with a hydra, so why should it cost 230-250 points? So much for it would be a joke.

190-200 points would be okay and more balanced compared to others I'd guess.

phierlihy wrote:A Hydra isn't 175 points of Goblins that you can ignore for the entire game. It has to be dealt with or it is going to wreck stuff.

Yes, and that's why most people have something to deal with such a thing. I'd never field an army in WH40k and not have any anti-tank in my armies.

The war hydra is one of our hard-hitters, able to deal "high" strength attacks and take down armor and high toughness... we dark elves don't have much of that (except our much hated pegasus lord and the overpriced executioners). So, the reason there's lots of war hydras from a DE player is that he actually doesn't have much options. Manticore gets shot down before he'll do anything and the dragon costs too much to get into smaller battles. Reaper bolt throwers is one option, but it dies as quickly as the manticore... maybe it gets off a shot first (With 50% chance of hitting).
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Post by Sulla »

Dark Reaper wrote:It is actually quite weird that so many people believe that the Hydra should cost more than a HPA.
You can't take a single statement about a specific unit as evidence of a blanket policy. Players could think both the Hydra and A-bomb are overpriced but in a post about dark elves, only the pricing of the hydra would be relevant.

Personally, I hope they get both more expensive, and better in our next book. I would be quite happy with a 250pt+ beast that can't be taken out by a single war machine shot and had 6's for s,t and w. Plus actually following the M&H rules instead the current rules.
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