French ETC Dark Elves Flying fun.

How to beat those cowardly High Elves?

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Benji
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French ETC Dark Elves Flying fun.

Post by Benji »

Hi Guys,

The ETC lists went up a week ago and team France are bringing 5 Pegasus riders. 2x dreadlords and 3x Masters. No magic other than Hotek.

I very nearly took a similar list myself (but with a big corsair unit to give the pegasus riders a 'deathstar' option and gain them all frenzy.

The actual list at ETC is:

1 Dreadlord on pegasus, heavy armour, sea dragon cloak, talisman of preservation, crimson death, dragonhelm, 282
1 Dreadlord on pegasus, General, sea dragon cloak, shield, armour of destiny, whip of agony, dawnstone, 299
1 Master on pegasus, great weapon, sea dragon cloak, heavy armour, shield, pendant of Kaeleth, the other trickster’s shard, 194
1 Master on pegasus, lance of cavalry, heavy armour, shield, cloak of Hag Graef, ring of Hotek, 190
1 Master on pegasus, BSB, lance of cavalry, sea dragon cloak, shield, armour of eternal servitude, dragonbane gem, 205
13 Dark riders, FCG, 256
8 Dark riders, musician, repeater crossbows, 183
7 Dark riders, musician, repeater crossbows, 161
5 Harpies, 55
5 Harpies, 55
10 Shades, great weapons, 180
9 Shades, great weapons, 162
1 War hydra, 175

What are your thoughts on it? (there is comp involved, that's why some combos are not he clear winners)

Cheers
Ben
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Post by Dyvim tvar »

Interesting list. Even a mild amount of shooting will tear up most of the list, but the characters are all fairly resilient. And If all those characters can coordinate their charges, they could do some damage.
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Post by Benji »

I think the idea with the Dark Riders is that they stay out of shooting range or team up with the shades to move into range of 1 unit and shoot it off before it fires back. Its also a team environment to things with lots of BS shooting can be avoided. Warmachine shooting is a fair trade, the Warmachines die very fast and the dark riders are less points
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Post by Calisson »

What they say in WarFo (French forum) about a very similar list (2 hydra, 1 sass, everything else pretty similar):
- stable: one-shot charges with 3d6, kills with hatred, move on
- no magic, no trouble
- Ld9 or Ld10
- no über
- first to place, 1st to move but moves easily to the other side
- moves where it wants, cannot be directed
- very difficult for opponent to control everything in charging position from 5 peggies
- opponents are not used to fast cav
- can suicide-charge mage
- very few spells are must-dissipate; just avoid to charge boosted units.
- very few spells actually threaten characters
- DR serve to protect characters from shooting, dive goblins...
- DR are mobile banners when objectives involve banners
- shades are played on sides to harass opponent
- hydra to kill massive units that peggies have trouble to eat up in one turn

The list has been posted in mai 2012 and has been fine-tuned since.
It has been applauded because of creativity, off-the-beaten-track, elegance, ...


My advice:
- kill hydra first
- concentrate on winning objective, ignore everything else
- the more you can keep them in combat, the less effective.

Good luck!
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Post by Dyvim tvar »

There are some builds that would be unfavorable match ups for this list, but the way the ETC works, they can hopefully avoid them. Lore of Metal would be a potential problem, and lots of Chaos Warrior disk-riders could be as well. But this list could just as easily be a nightmare for lots of enemy builds.
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Post by Benji »

Calisson wrote:The list has been posted in mai 2012 and has been fine-tuned since.
It has been applauded because of creativity, off-the-beaten-track, elegance, ...



Ha! Nice attitude, in the UK you don't get applauded, you get accused of breaking the system and comped out of the next event :)
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Post by Tomcowlin »

Might be missing a trick here but how come the great weapons on the shades? I see their benefit for dealing with armour but monstrous cav will rip through them and probably won't take much in return (since they get to go first). Where could the extra points be put?
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Post by Dyvim tvar »

I'm not sure I understand that either. I guess the hope is that the shade units are big enough that they can a few hits in combat, and when they do strike back they will be striking hard.
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Post by Vulcan »

Looks like a holdover from 7E, when you went first on the charge (barring ASF) all the time. Back then, GW shades were the way to go; they'd tear stuff up on the first round of combat, hopefully clear the battleline, and win the combat.

Now that charges no longer give the first attack, the only thing that GW shades do is die before they can swing.
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Post by Amarok »

Is it possible that player is running Manflayers as Shades? From what I understand the ETC are pretty strict on WYSIWYG, and the Manflayers are clearly carrying Draichs. It's the only thing that really makes sense to me. Unless I have missed something glaringly obvious. Which is very possible! :)
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Post by Killerk »

I do not think the shades are there to charge anything, They rather use the GW to take down thing's like lone heroes, who charge them. Hopefully get a wound with S&S, and then park another in cc, and with the numbers they can pull it off.

Also they can hit a flank, limiting the number of attacks, while one of the peg's holds it up in the front. with S5 you can do some damage.

IMHO generally the unit will keep as far from combat as possible.

As far as the WYSISYG is not that strict ;)
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Post by Amarok »

Cheers KillerK. I have just finished putting together sixteen Manflayers myself, so I am glad to know it isn't as strict as that (as I eventually do wish to play competitively).

It would certainly be an interesting list to play against, although I would imagine a little frustrating.

As far as target priority goes, is the hydra there as a big bullseye/magnet? Present an obvious target to keep the heat off of everything else?
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Post by Calisson »

The hydra is remaining from the original list's 2 hydra.
Possibly due to ETC comp?
If you consider how many units have high S attacks, you'll see that the hydra has a role.

IMO it is a good idea to kill it early.
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Post by Thanee »

ETC doesn't restrict flying units? Well... :lol:

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Post by Dyvim tvar »

They will next year ... But only for Dark Elves.
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Post by Benji »

KillerK wrote:I do not think the shades are there to charge anything, They rather use the GW to take down thing's like lone heroes, who charge them. Hopefully get a wound with S&S, and then park another in cc, and with the numbers they can pull it off.


I think this is the best explanation. Scar Vets are the bane of shades, but with Great Weapons they may think twice.
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Post by Killerk »

Thanee wrote:ETC doesn't restrict flying units? Well... :lol:


Of course they do :evil:. They lifted the restriction on flying Heroes, but on the other hand limited harpies to 2 unit's :?.

And yes the hydras are restricted too.

The funny thing is, that in 8th a flaming banner is an asset, while in ETC it's a liability.


The list can be challenging to play. It's nearly impossible to engage it in CC, for it will surround you and pick you apart. Your best hope is magic, since the only protection they have are, bare DD, and the ring of hotec.

Even when facing them with my De, I think I would practicably turtle my army dwarven style, in the corner or around a hill. Counter charge his Hotec Pegasus, and blast him with magic and shooting.

I think your list Ben has the best tool's to take it apart, Fire for shades and death for heroes. The only problem is keeping him back long enough, to get the upper hand.
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Post by Lord tsunami »

just a though: why great weapons on shades? (in the OP). do ETC have some secret rules that makes that viable or is it just a brain-fart? :D
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Post by Babnik »

So far, ETC Poland for the french druchii player:
- 1 draw vs Swedish druchii
- 1 win vs Greek Empire
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