New DE armybook RULES RUMOURS

[Gidean]

GW games designers love evil. They always have. If you think about it, even the fluff for Space Marines makes them evil.

Since when has Space marines not been facist overlords that exterminate anyone who questions the Emperor and on top of it all finds enslavement and desctruction of whole worlds a better choice then a single critical voice!

All in the name of exterminating chaos!

Ummm....I think that is pretty much what I said in fewer words. Now back on topic. If the rumors are true we Dark Elves got the longer stick from our good old buddy Matt Ward. Though (in typical GW fasion) he appears to have nerfed one of the most complained about components of our army....Hydras. Good...bad...? I think there will be so much more to take we won't shed too many tears. I expect the Abomination to take a serious hit when Skaven are redone.

[Clockwork]

Good news! Anything to make it less ubiquitous. It never fit in with my army aesthetic anyway and I never used one. I'd say, with any luck we'll get something that replaces its role (high strength damage out put), but ASF appears to have done that for us anyway.

[Fallenturtle]

GW games designers love evil. They always have. If you think about it, even the fluff for Space Marines makes them evil.

Since when has Space marines not been facist overlords that exterminate anyone who questions the Emperor and on top of it all finds enslavement and desctruction of whole worlds a better choice then a single critical voice!

All in the name of exterminating chaos!

Ummm....I think that is pretty much what I said in fewer words. Now back on topic. If the rumors are true we Dark Elves got the longer stick from our good old buddy Matt Ward. Though (in typical GW fasion) he appears to have nerfed one of the most complained about components of our army....Hydras. Good...bad...? I think there will be so much more to take we won't shed too many tears. I expect the Abomination to take a serious hit when Skaven are redone.

I honestly don't see it as a nerf.. What we've gained for 5 points more than what we pay now, is 2 extra wounds (the handlers now can take shots away from the hydra) and if you don't kill it outright, you'll get back your wounds.. Look at how many cannons are out there, how prevalent fire is etc. I don't see it as a loss of the 4+ regen but as actual regen than just another save that I'll fail.

You could NOT take the breath weapon and have something Cheaper than we have now.. overall I think it's a good thing.

I'm hoping that the overall army book is what the game needs. Look at WOC,nurgle demons and the High Elves.. those armies are the ones that you see in tournaments on the top tables. From what it sounds we're going to be more balanced, but up there in the scene and I'm all for that

[Liquidedust]

I honestly don't see it as a nerf.. What we've gained for 5 points more than what we pay now, is 2 extra wounds (the handlers now can take shots away from the hydra) and if you don't kill it outright, you'll get back your wounds.. Look at how many cannons are out there, how prevalent fire is etc. I don't see it as a loss of the 4+ regen but as actual regen than just another save that I'll fail.

You could NOT take the breath weapon and have something Cheaper than we have now.. overall I think it's a good thing.

I'm hoping that the overall army book is what the game needs. Look at WOC,nurgle demons and the High Elves.. those armies are the ones that you see in tournaments on the top tables. From what it sounds we're going to be more balanced, but up there in the scene and I'm all for that

Only unit that "suffers" some really is Executioners, but that is mainly due to losing to hit rerolls and probably KB. And well ASF is very nice on them but I guess we cannot have everything on them. (just hope they stay S6)

[Askador]

I honestly don't see it as a nerf.. What we've gained for 5 points more than what we pay now, is 2 extra wounds (the handlers now can take shots away from the hydra) and if you don't kill it outright, you'll get back your wounds.. Look at how many cannons are out there, how prevalent fire is etc. I don't see it as a loss of the 4+ regen but as actual regen than just another save that I'll fail.

You could NOT take the breath weapon and have something Cheaper than we have now.. overall I think it's a good thing.

I'm hoping that the overall army book is what the game needs. Look at WOC,nurgle demons and the High Elves.. those armies are the ones that you see in tournaments on the top tables. From what it sounds we're going to be more balanced, but up there in the scene and I'm all for that

I think its a big nerf. Not like its unplayable or something. Its still cool and i plan to play 2 of them, but it is a nerf.
Hydra lost Hatred. And the chance to not even get the wound is much better then the chance to heal a wound.
Old: Cannon shoots, Hits, wound, Rolling a 6 on life roll. Hydra makes a 4+save and nothing happens at a 50% chance.
New: Cannon shoots, hits, wound, Rolling a 6 on life roll. Remove the Hydra from the game at a 100% chance.

Its a big difference for me.

And its not only a Cannon or an other War mashine. Its the same with alot hits. And since the Hydra has a "I" of 2 there will be already missing hits when its the Attack turn of the Hydra or even worse she is dead then already. A Regeneration roll would help here too.

[Kzar]

I see a lot of people mentioning Execs losing re-rolls to hit. With the ASF, we will still get re-rolls if we have a higher I. I keep thinking of using a shadow with a miasma to give that little edge to anything that is equal I. That way we will have re-rolls to hit on I order with S6 (maybe 5) while re-rolling 1s to wound with possible d3 wounds.

Wow typing all that makes me think that Execs will be like 17 ppm.

[Gidean]

I see a lot of people mentioning Execs losing re-rolls to hit. With the ASF, we will still get re-rolls if we have a higher I. I keep thinking of using a shadow with a miasma to give that little edge to anything that is equal I. That way we will have re-rolls to hit on I order with S6 (maybe 5) while re-rolling 1s to wound with possible d3 wounds.

Wow typing all that makes me think that Execs will be like 17 ppm.

You are reading the ASF and using great weapons rule incorrectly. No re-roll no matter how high init. is.

[Saintofm]

This should sum up my thoughts right now:

[Dragon9]

I see a lot of people mentioning Execs losing re-rolls to hit. With the ASF, we will still get re-rolls if we have a higher I.

ASF and the ASL of the great weapons cancel each other. So they get to attack on their I instead of last, but don't get re-rolls.

EDIT: Saintofm, I need a like button for your post. lol

[Bounce]

Just thinking if the CoB gives an extra attack to the unit it is in, is this not going to be compromised by the fact the massive base will remove a stack of attacks in the first place?

[Helle]

Just thinking if the CoB gives an extra attack to the unit it is in, is this not going to be compromised by the fact the massive base will remove a stack of attacks in the first place?

While this is true, you must consider that the CoB is rumored to be a Chariot. So there are d6 impact hits (S5 I guess) and the attacks of 3 crew members making up for the loss of RnF attacks additional to the frenzy.

I don't like the fact that the unit is frenzied. Whatever unit you take, with the CoB in it, it will probably cost 400+ pts, often in horde formation i guess. It's so easy to redirect a friezied horde by forcing it to overrun.

[Omnichron]

MSU is coming back to town for real!

I like most of these rumors, even though I still don't believe the D3 for Executioners. WL kept their S4, so I don't think that Execs are in danger of losing it (At least I hope they won't).

[Ichiyo1821]

It was leaked alread y that the new COB is akin to Skaven's Screaming Bell. It can/must join a unit. Nice because it will be less prone to canonball shots me thinks and POS but might be a nerf as it will make that spearman/WE unit a more enticing target for Dwellers. Another overlooked fact is if it can join a unit does it mean it can now march with the unit? The old COB can only move 5". Hehe my brain is already working just from pics alone.

[Omnichron]

I think the new Executioners might do very well as MSU as well... used as monster killers and flankers. We'll have to wait and see with the new book

[Daeron]

These rumors certainly make me nervous with anticipation! It sounds like a lot can be done with the future book. If it will be viable, I might try a go for a Temple of Khaine theme

[Clockwork]

I picked up the white dwarf at lunch, though there's not much more to glean from it. No pics of the second wave models so I don't know where 40k radio got that from. Only one bestiary page unlike the lizardmen one which had four roster pages in it.

Ware guffs for two pages. Its mostly unintelligible blather without any indication of rules design or approach. He does say that he wanted to highlight malekith, because I guess he's really underdeveloped or something, so those of us hoping for a revision of fluff away from him will be disappointed.

Ask any questions and I will try to answer.

[Omnichron]

Ask any questions and I will try to answer.

For the rumors of WE as core... is there any death hag/khainite characters that might be the reason that the WE are core, or does it seem that WE actually are core no matter what?

[Clockwork]

They are definitely in core and there's a cauldron. But I don't remember if there was hellebron
Sorry I'll need to check after work.

I actually quite like the background for sisters of slaughter. They are the dispossessed daughters of fallen noble houses who take to the gladiatorial rings and rise to the top. The rules sound more fitting for war dancers, but there's plenty of conversion opportunity there (and room for using dark eldar wyches as cheaper alternatives).

[Trax]

So, the sisters are basically carbon copies (models and background) of Hagashîn. Now, that's inventive, Ward. Hm, even the ward save is copied, so it doesn't even stop at the rules, I guess. Let's see if they somehow hinder the enemies offense...

[Omnichron]

Thanks for the info. I guess there's a character on the cauldron... is that the general?

Personally I will just use the Raging Heroes witch elves. Also got the scifi versions for wyches from there and might try a bit of conversions to have them as Sisters of Slaughter... mayhaps

[Liquidedust]

So, the sisters are basically carbon copies (models and background) of Hagashîn. Now, that's inventive, Ward. Hm, even the ward save is copied, so it doesn't even stop at the rules, I guess. Let's see if they somehow hinder the enemies offense...

I think Hagashîn is a german anem for a troop type, what would it be in english?

[necrotix]

There's a Death Hag on the Cauldron, no Hellebron and not the general, the general is the Dreadlord on Dragon.

[Trax]

So, the sisters are basically carbon copies (models and background) of Hagashîn. Now, that's inventive, Ward. Hm, even the ward save is copied, so it doesn't even stop at the rules, I guess. Let's see if they somehow hinder the enemies offense...

I think Hagashîn is a german anem for a troop type, what would it be in english?

Oh sorry, wyches?

Which is funny btw since "Hagashîn" is everything *but* German^^ But gotta put those fancy names in there.

[Liquidedust]

So, the sisters are basically carbon copies (models and background) of Hagashîn. Now, that's inventive, Ward. Hm, even the ward save is copied, so it doesn't even stop at the rules, I guess. Let's see if they somehow hinder the enemies offense...

I think Hagashîn is a german anem for a troop type, what would it be in english?

Oh sorry, wyches?

Which is funny btw since "Hagashîn" is everything *but* German^^ But gotta put those fancy names in there.

So basically Witch Elves +1 with a 4+ Ward in close combat.

I so can foresee them being arrow and template magnets . . . and never ever see close combat

Lets call Wytches Hexekrieger from now on Trax!

[Calisson]

Just thinking if the CoB gives an extra attack to the unit it is in, is this not going to be compromised by the fact the massive base will remove a stack of attacks in the first place?

While this is true, you must consider that the CoB is rumored to be a Chariot. So there are d6 impact hits (S5 I guess) and the attacks of 3 crew members making up for the loss of RnF attacks additional to the frenzy.

I don't like the fact that the unit is frenzied. Whatever unit you take, with the CoB in it, it will probably cost 400+ pts, often in horde formation i guess. It's so easy to redirect a friezied horde by forcing it to overrun.

It was leaked alread y that the new COB is akin to Skaven's Screaming Bell. It can/must join a unit. Nice because it will be less prone to canonball shots me thinks and POS but might be a nerf as it will make that spearman/WE unit a more enticing target for Dwellers. Another overlooked fact is if it can join a unit does it mean it can now march with the unit? The old COB can only move 5". Hehe my brain is already working just from pics alone.

It was leaked that the COB can march.
Based on the pic, it seems that the COB is 3 infantry models wide, and probably more than 4 models long.
That would help to make a horde. Instead of 10 models per rank, you'd need only 7 + COB.
Crazy number of attacks...