Dark Riders and RXB

How to beat those cowardly High Elves?

Moderators: Layne, The Dread Knights

RXB on Dark Riders

Good Upgrade
70
95%
Making riders expensive for no reason
4
5%
 
Total votes: 74

Warfrog
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Dark Riders and RXB

Post by Warfrog »

What are peoples opinions of RXB on dark riders. First thinking that they were handbows I was a little hesitant. They would have to get within 12 (or 6 for no penalty) putting them well within charge range of most things (provided you arn't flanking). I now have my book and seeing that they are full RXBs not handbows I thought they would be good to increase the harassment of an already fast harassment unit.

So what you do you guys think? Good increase to harassment or making my throw away redirector to expensive?
MichaelMac
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Re: Dark Riders and RXB

Post by MichaelMac »

They do hit a lot less than you think because they're moving and diverting constantly and with T3 they don't pack much punch....BUT

They are really useful for situational things like:
-get the last wound off a war machine/monster that the RBT couldn't get.
-chase down your opponents caster who ran away to hide
-chase down a single model fast redirect unit that your opponent went and hid after you weakened it. +100 for you and a win is only 100 points.
-finish off the last few models of a big infantry block that is worth 300+ points

I have 3 units with xbows and I figure that the 45 points is worth it because at minimum I expect late in game to pick up an extra 100 points from some unit that went and hid.
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Dalamar
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Re: Dark Riders and RXB

Post by Dalamar »

It makes them more universal.
On top of that they are now cheaper than old darkies even with all options.

Only time I'd take them without crossbows would be as a bus with front rank of combat characters.
7th edition army book:
Games Played: 213
Games Won: 114 (54%)
Games Drawn: 33 (15%)
Games Lost: 66 (31%)

8th Edition army book W/D/L:
Druchii: 36/4/16
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Kurze
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Re: Dark Riders and RXB

Post by Kurze »

I always take crossbows, never just vanilla. The number of times they have managed to machine gun down a lonely wizard or polish off the last of a unit is worth the points. Glad to hear they are cheaper now, even with upgrades.
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Warfrog
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Re: Dark Riders and RXB

Post by Warfrog »

That kinda what I am thinking. I plan to use them on the flanks as a distraction/chase down fleeing units. Given the RXB range odds are they would be in range to pot shot each turn even if its at -2 or -3.

Related question. The spears are only used on a turn they charge. Does this mean if they don't charge or its a later round of combat they can get the parry save if they brought a shield too?
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Dalamar
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Re: Dark Riders and RXB

Post by Dalamar »

You don't get parry save while mounted.

Also they use spears every round but only get the strength bonus when they charge.
7th edition army book:
Games Played: 213
Games Won: 114 (54%)
Games Drawn: 33 (15%)
Games Lost: 66 (31%)

8th Edition army book W/D/L:
Druchii: 36/4/16
Warfrog
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Re: Dark Riders and RXB

Post by Warfrog »

Haha forgot about that thanks.
Clockwork
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Re: Dark Riders and RXB

Post by Clockwork »

They are also good, for instance, in plucking that Charmed Shield off Daemon Princes or Scar-Veterans and the like without wasting a full volly from your big Repeater Crossbowmen unit.
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Loran
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Re: Dark Riders and RXB

Post by Loran »

I feel that the RxB upgrade is good, as like Dalamar said, the RxBs make the Dark Riders more universal. I've lost count of the times when the unit would not have been able to do anything if they didn't have the RxBs. The possibility to shoot at something if there's nothing else to do is quite useful in my opinion.

What I mean with that point is that often when you're manouvering for some purpose or another, you don't get there in one turn. With RxBs you can make the most of the wait, as even a unit of five Dark Riders with RxBs has a good chance of killing enough models to justify the points spent on the RxBs...

So yeah, a good upgrade! :D

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marcopollo
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Re: Dark Riders and RXB

Post by marcopollo »

Interesting point about the DR bus with combat characters in it. Very out of the box thinking. I wonder how that would play out. Footprints of cav busses are rather large (I used to play brets alot). But with being fast cav and only 16 pts, you can field quite a lot. Hmm ...

but, by an large, RxB's on DR are good. Gives a greater degree of target selection than a standard RxB unit.

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Saintofm
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Re: Dark Riders and RXB

Post by Saintofm »

Light cavalry in most cases are there to harrass bigger targets and take out smaller targets. Giving them crossbows allows them to do that at a safe distance.

giving them that and shields adds to the price tag, but is perfect for dealing with other fact cavalry (you get a 4+ armor save and fast cav, they are lucky to get a 6 or 5+ armor save and still keep it).
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Trax
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Re: Dark Riders and RXB

Post by Trax »

If I take them with RXB, they don't hit anything. If I take them without, crossbowmen/RBT fail to knock off the final wound of eagles, war machines and the like. At least that's my gut feeling...

Anyway: With the new pricing I'd take them if alone for the potential threat. It's a huge difference whether your enemy can just park his puny wizard right next to them for a round or not. And once in a blue moon they actually *do* deal a wound. That's okay for 15p, and what Clockwerk said about the Charmed Shield is an excellent point as well. Wouldn't want to waste a RBT or 10+ crossbowmen on it.
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Fr0
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Re: Dark Riders and RXB

Post by Fr0 »

Not sure I'd field them without them. I think it's a bargain, and only adds to their versatility.
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Dalamar
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Re: Dark Riders and RXB

Post by Dalamar »

Old Dark Riders with crossbows and musician - 117
New Dark Riders with crossbows, musician and *shields* - 110

What's not to love?
7th edition army book:
Games Played: 213
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Games Drawn: 33 (15%)
Games Lost: 66 (31%)

8th Edition army book W/D/L:
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Re: Dark Riders and RXB

Post by CitizenKhaine »

Thanks for all your advice, I have a dozen dark riders that had been sitting at the back of the cupboard not being useful, but it seems I have just been using them poorly. previously I just went for artillery crew, but clearly there are more options for them. I have always liked the fluff for them, they are very DE.
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Re: Dark Riders and RXB

Post by Forumite »

I bring them with crossbows and they are a big help when whittling down enemy units and clearing chaff, but I can see the point in taking a few units without. The extra points for the unit doesn´t bother me, but rather the mentality it brings. When I have crossbows I want to use them, I avoid marching, avoid getting them into combat, I protect them. With a unit with spear+shield I can´t shoot, so I try harder to find a way for them to be usefull doing more dangerous things, like redirecting, hunting warmachines or doing suicide charges into a combat block to kill an enemy wizard. I wouldn´t sacrifice a crossbow-armed unit like that, even though the few kills they do over the course of the game might be less important than killing that High Elf wizard right now.
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strategem
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Re: Dark Riders and RXB

Post by strategem »

Forumite wrote:I bring them with crossbows and they are a big help when whittling down enemy units and clearing chaff, but I can see the point in taking a few units without. The extra points for the unit doesn´t bother me, but rather the mentality it brings. When I have crossbows I want to use them, I avoid marching, avoid getting them into combat, I protect them. With a unit with spear+shield I can´t shoot, so I try harder to find a way for them to be usefull doing more dangerous things, like redirecting, hunting warmachines or doing suicide charges into a combat block to kill an enemy wizard. I wouldn´t sacrifice a crossbow-armed unit like that, even though the few kills they do over the course of the game might be less important than killing that High Elf wizard right now.


Why do you avoid marching?
They are fast cav, so as long as there is a 3" gap between your opponents units you march 18" to be behind his lines and shoot him in the rear.
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Fallenturtle
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Re: Dark Riders and RXB

Post by Fallenturtle »

I'll always run them with bows. I like lists that are versatile and that's what DR's are. They've actually kept a few of my opponents from deploying their wizards either by themselves or inside small skirmisher units for fear of either being shot off or charged at on turn 2. Never leave home without the xbows! :D
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Re: Dark Riders and RXB

Post by Forumite »

strategem wrote:
Forumite wrote:I bring them with crossbows and they are a big help when whittling down enemy units and clearing chaff, but I can see the point in taking a few units without. The extra points for the unit doesn´t bother me, but rather the mentality it brings. When I have crossbows I want to use them, I avoid marching, avoid getting them into combat, I protect them. With a unit with spear+shield I can´t shoot, so I try harder to find a way for them to be usefull doing more dangerous things, like redirecting, hunting warmachines or doing suicide charges into a combat block to kill an enemy wizard. I wouldn´t sacrifice a crossbow-armed unit like that, even though the few kills they do over the course of the game might be less important than killing that High Elf wizard right now.


Why do you avoid marching?
They are fast cav, so as long as there is a 3" gap between your opponents units you march 18" to be behind his lines and shoot him in the rear.

Really? I thought only skirmishers can shoot after marching. Fast Cavalry can sometimes move and shoot after rallying but can´t shoot after marching. Have I played this wrong?
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Dalamar
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Re: Dark Riders and RXB

Post by Dalamar »

Yes you have, fast cav can march and shoot.
7th edition army book:
Games Played: 213
Games Won: 114 (54%)
Games Drawn: 33 (15%)
Games Lost: 66 (31%)

8th Edition army book W/D/L:
Druchii: 36/4/16
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Gerner
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Re: Dark Riders and RXB

Post by Gerner »

Forumite wrote:Really? I thought only skirmishers can shoot after marching. Fast Cavalry can sometimes move and shoot after rallying but can´t shoot after marching. Have I played this wrong?

Yes - both Fast Cavalry and Skirmishers can shoot and march. Look in the BRB. ;)
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Re: Dark Riders and RXB

Post by Forumite »

They can fire on the march! Why did I not know this? My DRs just got a lot better!

Thanks guys! :D
Lysanthyr
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Re: Dark Riders and RXB

Post by Lysanthyr »

anytime you can get 10 s3 AP shots only needing 5's on average for 100 pts is a good thing. I have actually wounded t5 with my dark riders and are a staple in every list.
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Dangerous Beans
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Re: Dark Riders and RXB

Post by Dangerous Beans »

I've found Dark Riders to be infinitely useful in my most successful list before the new book (see The Death by 1,000 Cuts armylist here) and with their price drop AND the fact that they no longer lose being Fast Cav whilst equipped with shields is a huge boon! Although the items and character builds no longer quite work I'm sure given enough time this list will become viable again (I never lost with it... :P)
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Re: Dark Riders and RXB

Post by Vulcan »

I find that having RXB on my Riders allows them to sweep chaff even more efficiently.

On top of all the other uses for a few extra RXB shots.
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