The Scourgerunner

[Searinox Nagharha]

So has any1 played with it already? I used it for the first time last night and im having mixed feelings about it. i was facing Empire and for the first 3 turns it did nothing, every shot missed, having to hit on 5+ doesnt help.
But when it it it was devastating, clearing half his unit of Knights causing them to panic and run all the way to the other side of the board, and then followed to clear a good amount of his chaff in the last turn.

But I dont know if i will field it again... maybe if i end up making my Monster Mash army and mounting a HBM on it to always hit on 2+
what are other ppls experiance's with it?

[Dalamar]

I had one game so far and used it. Failer to roll a single 4+ throughout the entire game. Bad dice are not a reason two write it off though.

[Maesltrom]

On paper I can't see why i'd ever take it. You can get 2 regular bolt throwers for less.

Actually 2 reasons, i've already got 4 bolt throwers and want to go uber gunline or possibly if the FAQ allows it to change the monsters facing when it gets dragged.

[Lysanthyr]

Does it go throught ranks like a Bolt Thrower? I thought that, since it is a Harpoon with the sole purpose of capturein things, it just hit the one model? I don't have the bookk yet and hav easked this question before, but no one seems to answer it. I am hard pressed to even think about taking one because I can get 2 Bolt Throwers for less, or a Cold One Chariot that is way more effective.

[Sulla]

Played one vs chaos. Nothing worthwhile in range first turn. Missed in second turn. Killed by caress of laniph before my third turn. I'm thinking I need more than one, but then the points become an issue and multiple RBTs start to look better. Might try to squeeze in a beastmaster one instead as I can get the ring of hotek on him to protect the army.

[Searinox Nagharha]

I had one game so far and used it. Failer to roll a single 4+ throughout the entire game. Bad dice are not a reason two write it off though.

thats true, once it gets into the right spot it might be worth it... maybe ill give it another go in future games just as a normal chariot. I realy want to xD I love the model and the fluff behind it

@Lysanthyr
it works just like a Bolt Thrower, so the first model is hit with S7, if killed the next is hit with S6, ect, ect.

[Lysanthyr]

Thanks. Just got a little more viable.

[Calisson]

Does it go throught ranks like a Bolt Thrower? I thought that, since it is a Harpoon with the sole purpose of capturein things, it just hit the one model? I don't have the bookk yet and hav easked this question before, but no one seems to answer it. I am hard pressed to even think about taking one because I can get 2 Bolt Throwers for less, or a Cold One Chariot that is way more effective.

Rules p.38 say it is a bolt thrower which can move.
It is not a warmachine, though.
I take it that no rule BRB p.109 apply (warmachines) and all rules BRB p.111 apply (Bolt Throwers) except for the profile which is superseded: range, S and special rules.
As an effect, armour saves should be allowed against the harpoon, contrary to RBT which deny them.
So, shooting through several ranks is clearly in the rules.


The clear drawback is BS4, hitting most usually on 5+ (moved, distance), sometimes 4+, rarely 3+.
The BM with BS7 hits on 2+ all the time, that's as good as 2.5 s-runners most of the time for the price of 2 (and he may tickle a hydra or K-beast in addition, plus likely provide Ld as general, and make his chariot more worthy in CC).
Worth considering, the shots that matter are not only the ones that hit. The threat of a s-runner shot at 9+24=33" may deter the opponent to take the chance.

[OldCrow]

I've tried it for a few game (3 or so) and haven't been impressed. Needing a 5+ to hit regularly just keeps it from being really useful. I'd prefer Cold One Chariots or regular Bolt Throwers for the cost. All that said I think a beastmaster on one might be an interesting use.

[Searinox Nagharha]

You sure Calisson? I tought that since it says its a Bolt Thrower in the AB it ignored armor saves.
If your right then that unit of 2+ Knights that it send running wouldnt have ran at all. well maybe they could have still ran but it loses some of it potential.

[Calisson]

I am pretty sure, but would like confirmation.
AB p.38, it says it is a bolt thrower which may move and shoot.
Then it provides the characteristics: range 24", S7, special rules Multiple wounds (1D3), wired bolts (or whatever the English edition names them).
Comment: I don't see "ignores armour saves". Let me know if it is a misprint in the French edition.

As it is a Bolt Thrower, I take that all rules BRB p.111 apply.
Except the profile, which is clearly superseded by the AB.
Too bad, in the BT's profile BRB p.111, that's where the rule "Ignore armour saves" is stated.

All together, I can only understand that Ignore AS has been lost in the process.
There is no way to "merge" the two profiles.


Now, at S7, that makes the first AS at -4. Knights having 1 AS would get to roll 5+, the next one 4+...

[Searinox Nagharha]

Ok then... hope we can get some clarification on that in the future. Cause with armor saves it'll become somewhat less usefull to take out dangerous high AS targets

[Saintofm]

Looking at rule books now.


Dark Elves page 38: It is a bolt thrower that can be fired even if its moved. It S 7, and has Barbed Bolts and D3 multiple wounds.

It does not have ignore armor on it's profile, but if it otherwise treated as a bolt thrower then it would go through ranks as well.

However the Bolt thrower profile on page 111 in the big red rule book is S6, D3 multiple wounds and ignores armor.



So either they intended for this not to go through ranks (doubt it, or at least hope not) or they are going to need to FAQ this soon.

[Jvh792]

If it's a bolt thrower, it ignores armor.
Because it's defined as a bolt thrower, the bolt thrower profile from the main rulebook applies unless the profile specifically states that the normal rules are overridden. Such as it being S7. Usually bolt throwers are S6, but the profile overrides that rule. The other rules still apply though.

[Calisson]

No, Jvh.
If it's a Bolt Thrower, it applies all rules p.111 unless specifically stated otherwise.
Problem is that the whole profile is provided otherwise. And "Ignore AS" is, with 100% certainty, part of the special rules, which have been superseded by different special rules.
My best proof: they specified in the new profile's special rules "D3 multiple wounds", when the regular BT profiles specifies "D3 multiple wounds" as well. If GW wanted the harpoon to get "Ignores AS", they would have printed it as well. They did not.

Don't cherry pick what rules fit you best. Read the rules and accept them.

Still, at S7, an 1+ AS becomes 5+, that's not that bad.

[Searinox Nagharha]

Ok, then i was playing it wrong allowing armor saves does strengthen the Fluff of it beeing a Monster Hunting Chariot. Tho i think if not those ill send it after lower armored units.

[Omnichron]

The scourgerunner costs too much for my taste. You get a mobile bolt thrower with short range that can't really take much hits at all. It's over twice the points of our RBT and over four times if you have the beastmaster with one...

IMO, the Scourgerunner is way overpriced, at least if you compare it to a certain skullcannon (Although that one is heavily underpriced).

[Cold73]

I will admit i have not used the Scourge Runner yet, but the way I look at it.
(not looking at point cost though, as that may or may not be a bit high)

The Scourge Runner is more then a Bolt Thrower and more then a chariot.
If you compare it to either one of those two it will have already lost.

Why is it more then a Bolt Thrower?
It is more usefull in later turns (impact hits); has less trouble with dealing with Fast Cavalry and Scouts.

Why is it more then a chariot?
A chariot only has an effective threat range of 2d6+7"....the scourge runner...can shoot as well...meaning that opponent will try to keep tough units..like chariots and monsters as far away from him as possible. He has an effective threat range 33"...I will admit that 5+ to hit isn't great...but it is all about threat potential here.

In my opinion winning battles is all about trying to make your opponent react to what you are gonna do...forcing him to make choices early on...the more choices he has to make the more chance he has of making a single mistake...and even in set-up this can be a huge advantage.

[Calisson]

More than a chariot, the s-runner has a devastating Stand & Shoot, in case it missed the charge itself...

[Dalamar]

I will admit i have not used the Scourge Runner yet, but the way I look at it.
(not looking at point cost though, as that may or may not be a bit high)

The Scourge Runner is more then a Bolt Thrower and more then a chariot.
If you compare it to either one of those two it will have already lost.

Why is it more then a Bolt Thrower?
It is more usefull in later turns (impact hits); has less trouble with dealing with Fast Cavalry and Scouts.

Why is it more then a chariot?
A chariot only has an effective threat range of 2d6+7"....the scourge runner...can shoot as well...meaning that opponent will try to keep tough units..like chariots and monsters as far away from him as possible. He has an effective threat range 33"...I will admit that 5+ to hit isn't great...but it is all about threat potential here.

In my opinion winning battles is all about trying to make your opponent react to what you are gonna do...forcing him to make choices early on...the more choices he has to make the more chance he has of making a single mistake...and even in set-up this can be a huge advantage.

This.
Bolt Throwers are static and your opponent can adapt to their position, use cover and screens etc.
Scourgerunner is a mobile S7 threat (that of course doesn't compare to ogre or demon chariot cannons...) that is hard to pin down and catch by your regular war machine hunters. The threat of being hit by an S7 bolt is not to be underestimated.

[Trax]

Hm, I'm afraid I kinda agree on most points Calisson made here, only thing I'm still wondering about is this: Why does it even say "This is a bolt thrower that can be fired even if the Scourgerunner Chariot moves."? There would be *no* point in having this sentence here if the normal BT rules wouldn't apply at all since every single BS weapon may be shot while moving (unless stated otherwise).

On the other hand, especially the Multiple Wounds (D3) rule indicates that the bolts use their completely own profile - if the MW rules wouldn't be quoted I'd be more eager to say "they just listed the differences from the rulebook stuff", but I really think there is an armor save allowed after all. But what about the "This is a bolt thrower" phrase? I'd say that the BRBs paragraph about "Hits by bolt throwers" come to effect (which results in pierced ranks and no stand and shoot, since bolt throwers are classified as war machines which may not choose stand and shoot - on the other hand, the unit is no war machine but a chariot...) - there would be absolutely no reason to call the weapon a bolt thrower if not, and the classification as BT is pretty prominent. Tough nut, kinda. The Skycutter ignores armor saves explicitely, btw.

[Lysanthyr]

With all the discussion surrounding this model, I don't feel it is worth fielding until GW has a chance to put out a FAQ on it. I play with a group of friends and our differing takes on the rules can get heated at times. I would not purposely bring a unit to the field that I did not have a clear understanding of, as it would just incite a rules discussion and ruin the purpose of playing the game in the first place, to have a good time.

[Trax]

It's kinda sad, from day to day I stumble upon new clearly not clarified issues : /

And yes, it would be kinda nice to know *before* the game started whether you do indeed have a mobile bolt thrower (as advertised) or just a single shot... arrow.

[Saintofm]

I beleive the reason they said the bolt beastmaster chariot can move and shoot is because it has a bolt thrower, which is a war machine.


Correct me if I am wrong but all the main war machines are move or shoot, and any variation that can do otherwise has to clearly state it. Bolt throwers are just unique as Balistic skill dictates if it hits or misses.

[Dalamar]

Scourgerunner is a Bolt Thrower, which can fire after it moves and has its own profile, unique from other bolt throwers

As such, its shots pierce ranks but allow for Armor Save (Except the extra wound for monsters that get dragged 4+" which is clearly specified to not allow armor saves)

Was it intended like that? I don't know, but for now there is nothing to support Scourgerunner shots being no save (which does reduce their effectiveness against heavy cavalry considerably)