Discussion on Fleshing out the New Cult of Slaanesh

How to beat those cowardly High Elves?

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Discussion on Fleshing out the New Cult of Slaanesh

Post by xFallenx »

For all of us Cult of Slaanesh fans out there I have begun compiling a collection of current options to use in re-creating that list of old we all love & cherish. Ideally I would love for this topic to find a life of its own with input from other cultists, so feel free to make update suggestions for us to discuss.

Cult of Slaanesh special rules:
1) General must be a sorceress of some sort.
To this effect we have everything we need within our rulebook. Morathi is a very good choice & one I am planning my army around.

2) The Army General must have the Mark of Slaanesh.
The current Mark of Slaanesh states that they have armour Piercing & Hatred of Khorne. This can fluffily be replaced with our murderous prowess for armour piercing & our hatred of High Elves. Therefore all of our units could & should possess these traits.

3) Daemons cannot join units of dark elves or mortal chaos.
I believe that we can get currently replace all of the chaos units available to us at that time with units in our new book. See unit selection/comparison for further details.

4) Dark Elves cannot join units of chaos daemons or mortal. Aspiring Champs cannot join daemons or Dark Elves.
I believe that we can get currently replace all of the chaos units available to us at that time with units in our new book. See unit selection/comparison for further details.

5) Dark Elves with mark of Slaanesh still hate HE’s. Slaanesh marked cold ones still suffer stupidity.
Nothing really has to change here.

6) Sorceress with the mark of Slaanesh must use Lore of Slaanesh & gain a further +1 to casting.
The lore of Slaanesh contains 3 Hex, 2 Direct Damage, 1 Magic Missile, 1 Augment(Hex depending on target). As you can see it’s a very offensive type magic lore.

Dark Magic contains 1 Augment, 2 Magic Missile, 2 Hex, 2 Direct Damage & 1 vortex. At a quick glance there is a similar spell breakdown.

So far as actual spell lore’s, there may be one of the eight that compliment/mirror the lore as far as spell effects, but I’ll look into that at a further date (Feel free to comment if you’ve already done so & I’ll update as required).

7) All rules for marks of the Dark gods apply.
Nothing really to worry about here.

8 ) Dark Elf characters with the mark of Slaanesh may take any models with the mark of Slaanesh only’ magic items from Hordes of Chaos as part of their magic item allowance.
Slaanesh has a sword that causes an I test that when failed cause another wound.
The DE Chillblade forces a T test that when failed causes the victim to suffer -3A(to 1) until the next phase.

9) Any Dark Elf unit that has a mark of Slaanesh & access to a magis standard may choose to take the Rapturous Standard (Hordes of Chaos) instead of another Magic standard (regular rules apply: Only one per army)
Basically this standard gave “Insane Courage” which if I remember correctly was auto pass a break test.
To replace this, or at least attempt to get close to replicating it, choices could include:
War Banner, Standard of Discipline or Gleaming Pendant.

10) Chaos characters & units may not use Dark Magic items.
Nothing really to worry about here.

Cult Magic Items:
Weapons:
~ Draich which gave +2S & KB. Used two hands:
Ogre Blade has +2S.
~ Blade of Spite: Rolls of 5/6 auto wound.
Chillblade auto wounds. Obsidian blade negates armour saves.

Talismans:
~ Heart Stone had a 4+ ward.
Talisman of Preservation has a 4+ ward.

Enchanted Items:
~ Wand of Kharaidon casted a Doombolt once per magic phase.
We now have a unit that has the ability to cast doombolt using power dice. This may be as close as we get to this item.

~ Cloak of Dark Souls allowed a character to scout.
This item is lost to the ages with no way of replicating it.

Magic Standard:
~ Allows the unit to make a flee response & auto rally at the end of it’s distance fled. (Meaning it will be able to charge & or move freely next movement phase).
This item is lost to the ages with no way of replicating it. Break out your music.

Anointed Daemonic Gifts:
~ Quick Blood has always strikes first even with great weapons.
DE’s have ASF built in & GW going at I order go first in most situations.

~ Avatar of Slaanesh grants a re-roll of Break tests within 12”.
This can be replicated with a run of the mill BSB.

~ Allure of Slaanesh required a passed LD test to shoot at the unit/hero.
If the test is failed the unit cannot shoot that turn. This gift is lost to the ages with no way of replicating it.

Army Comp
Lords:
Morathi: Must be general if chosen.
All rules & points from current book. May choose her 4 spells from her available lores &/or Slaanesh.

High Sorceress:
All rules & points from current book.

0-1 Keeper:
As per rules & points from current Daemon book.

Druchii Anointed:
Would the same rules work here?

Hero’s:
Noble:
All rules & points from current book.

Sorceress:
All rules & points from current book.

Core:
Dark Elf warriors:
All rules & points from current book.

Devoted of Slaanesh:
As per the witch Elves in our book.

Shades:
All rules & points from current book.

Dark Riders to replace Marauders of Chaos:
All rules & points from current book.

Daemonettes:
As per rules & points from current Daemon book.

Special:
Cold one Knights:
All rules & points from current book.

Mounted Daemonettes:
As per rules & points from current Daemon book.

Hellstriders of Slaanesh:
As per rules & points from current Warriors book. (Still not 100% sold on adding this unit as they are "human" & share a redundancy with the Daemonettes)

Black Guard as Warriors of Chaos:
All rules & points from current book.

Harpies as Furies:
All rules & points from current book.

Rare:
Spawn of Chaos:
As per rules & points from current Daemon book. Slaanesh Only.

Repeater Bolt throwers:
All rules & points from current book but rare as opposed to special.

Knights of Chaos (0-1) :
As per rules & points from current Warriors of Chaos Book. Slaanesh Only.

Warlocks:
All rules & points from current book.
Last edited by xFallenx on Mon Nov 11, 2013 6:15 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: Discussion on Fleshing out the New Cult of Slaanesh

Post by Dragon9 »

I seem to remember the Devoted were nto like Witch Elves in the old list. I don't believe they had frenzy or poisoned weapons. I could be wrong. I'll have to try to dig up that old list, I know I have the old issues of White Dwarf. Anyone remember which WD issue that was?
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Re: Discussion on Fleshing out the New Cult of Slaanesh

Post by xFallenx »

The devoted had Mark of Slaanesh, Hate HE & Soporific Musk. The mistress was able to take speed of Slaanesh(ASF). No frenzy or poison. My digital DE book has the Dark Elf Warrior summary instead of the Witch Elf one. The Devoted had to pay 12pts/model for less than what the witches get @ 11. I guess the question is: Is soporific Musk worth 1pt & the loss of frenzy & poison? Is there a fluff reason why Devoted wouldn't be frenzied & use poison?
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Re: Discussion on Fleshing out the New Cult of Slaanesh

Post by Drainial »

You don't need a fluff reason not to give something a special rule you need a reason to give it one. There was no reason why Slaanesh devoted ought to be Frenzied since that is a Khainite/Khornate quality for the most part. If you were writing a variant list like the SOC one they shouldn't get frenzy, if you are just using them as effectively 'counts as' you are fine.
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Re: Discussion on Fleshing out the New Cult of Slaanesh

Post by Haagrum »

I love this idea! I had been drafting up a mock list myself last night with the new books.

A couple of thoughts:

1. I realise that Heralds of Slaanesh and Slaaneshi chariots weren't around for the old Cult of Slaanesh, but is there any reason why they could not be included now? Apart from arguably being sub-optimal choices, I mean. :)

2. Given the background and fluff for the Bloodwrack Shrine, would this be a new unit that might be included in the new Cult of Slaanesh list? I don't see the Medusa necessarily getting a spot, and I realise the Shrine is devoted to Atharti, not Slaanesh, but the Shrine fits the general degree of depravity and obsession taken too far which suits the Cult ethos (IMHO).

3. We'd have a hard time costing the Druchii Anointed with his existing rules, IMO - however, we might want to steal the rules and points for the Anointed of Asuryan (a treasonous suggestion, admittedly) with an option to be up to a level 2 caster at the standard magic level increase price, in much the same way as a Daemon Prince is now.

From memory, the Devoted of Slaanesh had 2 Attacks and poisoned weapons, as well as additional hand weapons. In short, they had the benefits of Frenzy (being ITP because of the Mark of Slaanesh and never being able to lose the Extra Attack) without the drawbacks, relative to a Witch Elf. Still, I don't see why using the straight Witch Elves rules couldn't apply here.

Drainial wrote:You don't need a fluff reason not to give something a special rule you need a reason to give it one. There was no reason why Slaanesh devoted ought to be Frenzied since that is a Khainite/Khornate quality for the most part. If you were writing a variant list like the SOC one they shouldn't get frenzy, if you are just using them as effectively 'counts as' you are fine.


I agree, but there's a Slaanesh spell which gives a unit Frenzy.

It's not a stretch to suggest that these devotees either (1) had it cast upon them pre-battle, or (2) being dedicated sense-freaks, that they took something like Witchbrew which is intended to heighten battle awareness and sensation, and that they've gone into an ecstatic frenzy as a result.
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Re: Discussion on Fleshing out the New Cult of Slaanesh

Post by Archamedius »

I think soporific musk today is like anti swift stride in that it requires you to roll 3 dice and choose the lowest two when fleeing from a unit with it.

I believe it used to half weapon skill and initiative of units in base to base contact with the unit bearing it. The second would be AWESOME for a high elf unit, and I would think would be a fair trade for poison and frenzy. Being able to make sure you hit on 3s and with Elf ASF guarantee rerolls should make for an excellent unit. I think they also had base 2 attacks so they were at the same # of attacks despite lack of frenzy.
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Re: Discussion on Fleshing out the New Cult of Slaanesh

Post by Layne »

Warlocks should move up a slot or two and you should have to take some. Fluff along the lines f, you wouldn't be able to keep them away without losing Slaanesh's favour so you have to include them.
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Re: Discussion on Fleshing out the New Cult of Slaanesh

Post by Archamedius »

Layne wrote:Warlocks should move up a slot or two and you should have to take some. Fluff along the lines f, you wouldn't be able to keep them away without losing Slaanesh's favour so you have to include them.



Actually, I think warlocks shouldn't be allowed in a CoS list, despite how awesome they are. It's a fluff list and from a fluff standpoint, warlocks are running scared from Slaanesh, I cannot se how they would end up in an army with a bunch of Slaanesh units. It seems counter intuitive.
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Re: Discussion on Fleshing out the New Cult of Slaanesh

Post by Drainial »

All chaos worshipers owe their souls to their deity when they die, it is (one of) the price you pay for their favour. Warlocks may have a more extreme and rather less voluntary form of this but they are still killing and maiming to Slaanesh's benefit. I am not sure they should be a requirement but I wouldn't ban them either.
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Re: Discussion on Fleshing out the New Cult of Slaanesh

Post by xFallenx »

Haagrum wrote:1. I realise that Heralds of Slaanesh and Slaaneshi chariots weren't around for the old Cult of Slaanesh, but is there any reason why they could not be included now? Apart from arguably being sub-optimal choices, I mean.

Good Suggestion, what are the thoughts of others on this? The Chariots would have to be pretty rare in my opinion, or at least be limited to an army that includes at least one core daemon choice (Daemonettes).
The heralds I could almost live within the core selection, but feel that if they were to be made available, the Dark Riders would have to bump up to special.

Haagrum wrote:2. Given the background and fluff for the Bloodwrack Shrine, would this be a new unit that might be included in the new Cult of Slaanesh list? I don't see the Medusa necessarily getting a spot, and I realise the Shrine is devoted to Atharti, not Slaanesh, but the Shrine fits the general degree of depravity and obsession taken too far which suits the Cult ethos (IMHO).


A good suggestion, but as I haven’t really had the opportunity to dig into the book on this unit yet, have to leave it up to others to discuss for a bit.
In my opinion, I’m not sure the CoS list should be an “everything & the kitchen sink” army as it’s a subtle cult operating on the fringe…

Haagrum wrote: 3. We'd have a hard time costing the Druchii Anointed with his existing rules, IMO - however, we might want to steal the rules and points for the Anointed of Asuryan (a treasonous suggestion, admittedly) with an option to be up to a level 2 caster at the standard magic level increase price, in much the same way as a Daemon Prince is now.

Well worth looking into. I’ll take a look at the HE book later as well.
Taking a quick look, I'm not sure he's a fit really. He can't be a lvl 2 caster, whereas the Loremaster of Hoeth is one. I would vote for him based on the following:
~ Loremaster of H is 230pts. Anointed is 235pts
~ Loremaster is auto lvl 2 caster. Anointed can be for 40pts.
~ Loremaster has -3M, -2WS, -3WS, -1S, -2I, -2A compared to the anointed. Would this make up for the 45pt difference between the two casters?
~ Loremaster has no mount choices, weapon/armour upgrades. He is what you get, whereas the original anointed had some serious versatility depending on how you equipped him.
Maybe there is something in either of the Chaos books that could fit a bit better.

Haagrum wrote:From memory, the Devoted of Slaanesh had 2 Attacks and poisoned weapons, as well as additional hand weapons. In short, they had the benefits of Frenzy (being ITP because of the Mark of Slaanesh and never being able to lose the Extra Attack) without the drawbacks, relative to a Witch Elf. Still, I don't see why using the straight Witch Elves rules couldn't apply here.
It's not a stretch to suggest that these devotees either (1) had it cast upon them pre-battle, or (2) being dedicated sense-freaks, that they took something like Witchbrew which is intended to heighten battle awareness and sensation, and that they've gone into an ecstatic frenzy as a result.

The devoted entry states: 12pts, 2A(3for mistress) & two hand weapons. No poison. Everything else looks pretty similar.
I would also vote to just use the witch Elves. I would much rather include units with rules/stat’s as written for 8th/9th as opposed to a) using the 6th ed. outdated list & b) scrapping them completely(or even shoehorn something else in.

Archamedius wrote:I think soporific musk today is like anti swift stride in that it requires you to roll 3 dice and choose the lowest two when fleeing from a unit with it.

I believe it used to half weapon skill and initiative of units in base to base contact with the unit bearing it. The second would be AWESOME for a high elf unit, and I would think would be a fair trade for poison and frenzy. Being able to make sure you hit on 3s and with Elf ASF guarantee rerolls should make for an excellent unit. I think they also had base 2 attacks so they were at the same # of attacks despite lack of frenzy.

This, in my opinion, sounds like it would be a little overboard. The witches as they are, are official and won’t cause any issues on the tabletop with friendlies. Your suggestion, as interesting and worthwhile as it is, has to be play tested before we can start replacing rules with our own. Soporific musk must have been nasty to deal with.
I’m going to side with Drainial on the warlocks. Slaanesh is a pretty subtle shady character that is used to getting what he wants, so finding a way to draw the warlocks into the list, maybe not the ‘army’, wouldn’t be all together unheard of. I feel a rare slot would reflect their disdain as well as represent the pull Slaanesh has on his lessor minions.
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Re: Discussion on Fleshing out the New Cult of Slaanesh

Post by Kzar »

I have always been a fan of the Culf of Slaanesh lists, and even played a few games with them back in 6th. I do have some thoughts on refreshing it for today though.

1. Could the new cult of slaanesh lean towards a mostly elf army along with some few demonic characters? Of course daemonettes would still be a part of the list, but rather than using mounted daemonettes, we could have elves on the steeds of slaanesh, similar to the WoC hellstriders. This would follow along the lines of replacing warriors with black guard options.

2. What about the daemonic gifts and chaos mutations? Should there be a small list for annointed to choose from similar to WoC. or could we give the anointed a lesser gift like the daemon book? I like the randomness of the daemonic gift chart, especially since some of the mutations in the WoC book don't follow along the slaanesh theme.
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Re: Discussion on Fleshing out the New Cult of Slaanesh

Post by xFallenx »

Kzar wrote:1. Could the new cult of slaanesh lean towards a mostly elf army along with some few demonic characters? Of course daemonettes would still be a part of the list, but rather than using mounted daemonettes, we could have elves on the steeds of slaanesh, similar to the WoC hellstriders. This would follow along the lines of replacing warriors with black guard options.


Personally I like the idea of an all elf force representing the CoS, maybe have a couple subtle mutations on the unit champs. So far as modeling is concerned how you build your mounted daemonettes is completely up to you. As far as the rules for the unit go, keeping the ones already approved by GW would keep things consistent.

Kzar wrote:2. What about the daemonic gifts and chaos mutations? Should there be a small list for annointed to choose from similar to WoC. or could we give the anointed a lesser gift like the daemon book? I like the randomness of the daemonic gift chart, especially since some of the mutations in the WoC book don't follow along the slaanesh theme.


The anointed char is the major stumbling block when it comes to the CoS as far as I'm concerned. There just isn't anything quite like him in any of the books I have. If there is a char we can use from the WoC or DoC books I'd love to hear opinions on him/her. I'm not sure how I feel about the random gifts for a Slaaneshi Cult. General Chaos gifts may work, but obvious Khorn/Nurgle/Tzeench ones wouldn't fit.
These are just my feelings, anyone else have any input for building an anointed?
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Re: Discussion on Fleshing out the New Cult of Slaanesh

Post by Kzar »

So I made an outline along with new rules for Annointed, Devoted and a few more new units. Would it be illegal to post it? Any unit or rule that does exit is only reference without specific points or rules given.

Outline: Mostly Dark Elf units, but included are three demon units. two mortal units, along with options for demonic heroes and mortal heroes.

New units:
Dedicated- Elf unit dedicated to slaanesh with heavy armor and great weapons. They are pretty generic, so I am thinking of adding a special rule such as soporific musk.

Elven Hellstriders - Rather than using mounted daemonettes, some elves have been given the steeds. These are basically the devoted with a shield that can purchase a spear. (needs a name)

Specific Changes
Annointed no longer has a ward save like in 6th. Since it is still being seen as a Slaanesh gifted elf it has the same stats as before, but can choose to purchase a lesser daemonic gift as shown in the Daemons of Chaos book.

Devoted don't have soporific musk. The new soporific musk decreases weapon skill (no minimum) so I saw this is a too much for a core unit. I have them at 11 points, but maybe they could go up to 12 or 13 and gain this rule.

Removed Dark riders. With the new steeds of Slaanesh being a 10 move cavalry, it seemed a little redundant to have dark steeds and steeds of slaanesh.
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Re: Discussion on Fleshing out the New Cult of Slaanesh

Post by Haagrum »

xFallenx wrote:
Haagrum wrote:3. We'd have a hard time costing the Druchii Anointed with his existing rules, IMO - however, we might want to steal the rules and points for the Anointed of Asuryan (a treasonous suggestion, admittedly) with an option to be up to a level 2 caster at the standard magic level increase price, in much the same way as a Daemon Prince is now.

Well worth looking into. I’ll take a look at the HE book later as well.
Taking a quick look, I'm not sure he's a fit really. He can't be a lvl 2 caster, whereas the Loremaster of Hoeth is one. I would vote for him based on the following:
~ Loremaster of H is 230pts. Anointed is 235pts
~ Loremaster is auto lvl 2 caster. Anointed can be for 40pts.
~ Loremaster has -3M, -2WS, -3WS, -1S, -2I, -2A compared to the anointed. Would this make up for the 45pt difference between the two casters?
~ Loremaster has no mount choices, weapon/armour upgrades. He is what you get, whereas the original anointed had some serious versatility depending on how you equipped him.
Maybe there is something in either of the Chaos books that could fit a bit better.


Hmmm... the closest match I can think of would probably be a Daemon Prince, and that's just not a straight-line comparison. Possibly a Chaos Lord's points costs, with the Anointed's previous stat line (and inclusive of Chaos armour, which for present purposes we could call Armour of the Anointed)? This would be 210 points for a character with +3M, +4BS (which wouldn't be useable, so it hardly counts), +1In and Ld (but -1T? -2T?) as compared to a Chaos Lord, which seems a little high even if you include the Mark of Slaanesh, ASF and Murderous Prowess. If anything, I would think that it would put the Anointed at around 170-190 points as a base (depending on the T differential, which is a big deal). Comparing him to a Dreadlord, it'd be +2M, +1S and possibly +1T as well as a 4+ AS and auto-passing Fear, Terror and Panic tests for an extra 30-50 points, which doesn't seem unreasonable.

Would/should the Anointed have a built-in ward save of 5+, as they did before IIRC? This would have to push up the cost somewhat. Maybe 195-215 points (again depending on the T difference as compared with a Chaos Lord), with the option to take up to 2 magic levels for 35pts a pop?

That puts us in the same realm as the Loremaster and Daemon Princes (an odd comparison in terms of overall power), points-wise, before you start adding magic levels. I don't think that's unreasonable. Bear in mind that the Loremaster is a utility caster - he's only level 2, but he knows every signature spell, which makes him extraordinarily versatile - it's only appropriate to pay for that versatility. By contrast, the Druchii Anointed could/should be limited to Dark Magic, Slaanesh (WOC Lore attribute), or Shadows as Lore choices.

The Anointed could have the same non-monstrous mount options as a Dreadlord, but possibly without the Manticore and Dark Pegasus options. Equipment upgrades could be the same melee weapons, but no shooting options, and most certainly no Sea Dragon cloak IMHO.

Thoughts? Comments?
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Re: Discussion on Fleshing out the New Cult of Slaanesh

Post by xFallenx »

First of all I want to thank you both for your input & continued thoughts on how to round out this list.

Kzar wrote:So I made an outline along with new rules for Annointed, Devoted and a few more new units. Would it be illegal to post it? Any unit or rule that does exit is only reference without specific points or rules given.


I think you should be ok here. If they are all of your own making, I don’t see there being an issue.

Kzar wrote:Outline: Mostly Dark Elf units, but included are three demon units. two mortal units, along with options for demonic heroes and mortal heroes.
New units:
Dedicated- Elf unit dedicated to slaanesh with heavy armor and great weapons. They are pretty generic, so I am thinking of adding a special rule such as soporific musk.


Something along the lines of Warriors of Chaos? Ideally I would like to keep “New unit’s” based on units in current books. This will prevent us from re-making the wheel and/or ending up with possible balance issues.

Kzar wrote: Elven Hellstriders - Rather than using mounted daemonettes, some elves have been given the steeds. These are basically the devoted with a shield that can purchase a spear. (needs a name)


Hellstriders of Slaanesh would be a good unit to add. They could replace the Marauders of Chaos & move the Dark Riders back to special.

Kzar wrote: Specific Changes
Anointed no longer has a ward save like in 6th. Since it is still being seen as a Slaanesh gifted elf it has the same stats as before, but can choose to purchase a lesser daemonic gift as shown in the Daemons of Chaos book.


235 points for a character that far exceeds Malekith in 3 stats (arguably the most important ones) is severely undercosted. M6, WS8, BS7,S5,T4,W3,I9 & 5 A. This is why, in my eye’s, the anointed is the biggest hurdle to overcome.

Kzar wrote: Removed Dark riders. With the new steeds of Slaanesh being a 10 move cavalry, it seemed a little redundant to have dark steeds and steeds of slaanesh.


I’ve edited the original post to include the Hellstriders of Slaanesh in the Special selection. That being said, this unit is still “human’ in nature, & I just can’t wrap my head around Dark Elves being accepting of a human, no matter how obvious the love of Slaanesh has been bestowed on it.
The steeds of Slaanesh are superior mount than the dark steed and that alone keeps them out of core (Poison, Daemon of Slaanesh M10 & I5). I don’t believe that having the choice between Dark Steeds & steeds of Slaanesh is redundant. Dark Elves ride dark steeds, Slaaneshi daemons ride Saaneshi mounts.
All in all, I would like to see the overall army composition remain balanced comparatively to the original. I know things have changed since 6th ed, but I don’t want an OP CoS list that no one will want to play against after the first game.

Haagrum wrote:Hmmm... the closest match I can think of would probably be a Daemon Prince, and that's just not a straight-line comparison. Possibly a Chaos Lord's points costs, with the Anointed's previous stat line (and inclusive of Chaos armour, which for present purposes we could call Armour of the Anointed)? This would be 210 points for a character with +3M, +4BS (which wouldn't be useable, so it hardly counts), +1In and Ld (but -1T? -2T?) as compared to a Chaos Lord, which seems a little high even if you include the Mark of Slaanesh, ASF and Murderous Prowess. If anything, I would think that it would put the Anointed at around 170-190 points as a base (depending on the T differential, which is a big deal). Comparing him to a Dreadlord, it'd be +2M, +1S and possibly +1T as well as a 4+ AS and auto-passing Fear, Terror and Panic tests for an extra 30-50 points, which doesn't seem unreasonable.

Would/should the Anointed have a built-in ward save of 5+, as they did before IIRC? This would have to push up the cost somewhat. Maybe 195-215 points (again depending on the T difference as compared with a Chaos Lord), with the option to take up to 2 magic levels for 35pts a pop?

That puts us in the same realm as the Loremaster and Daemon Princes (an odd comparison in terms of overall power), points-wise, before you start adding magic levels. I don't think that's unreasonable. Bear in mind that the Loremaster is a utility caster - he's only level 2, but he knows every signature spell, which makes him extraordinarily versatile - it's only appropriate to pay for that versatility. By contrast, the Druchii Anointed could/should be limited to Dark Magic, Slaanesh (WOC Lore attribute), or Shadows as Lore choices.

The Anointed could have the same non-monstrous mount options as a Dreadlord, but possibly without the Manticore and Dark Pegasus options. Equipment upgrades could be the same melee weapons, but no shooting options, and most certainly no Sea Dragon cloak IMHO.


My latest idea is to use the DL entry combined with the lvl 2 sorceress having all the available options to the DL for 210pts (Cost of a nekid DL & 2 sorcery lvls). For upgrades he would use the DL’s choices along with the option to select a chaos hero’s option’s from either the WoC or DoC books. He would look like this:

Dark Elf Anointed:
M5 WS7 BS7 S4 T3 W3 I8 A4 LD10 (Keep in mind that Slaanesh stats are 1 pip lower in T & W, but usually make up for it in I & A when compared to Nurgle & Khorne. Elves in general represent this already.)

Hand Weapon, Light Armour. ASF,Hate HE’s, MP.

Options: As per DE Book.

Mounts: Dark Steed & Cold One. May also choose a Steed of Slaanesh for the DoC Hero price. (I have been wondering about the Seeker Chariot being a choice to replace the Peggy & Manti....)

May take up to 100pts of upgrades which includes up to 50pts in Daemonic gifts(Greater & Lesser) & or Slaaneshi upgrades (Lesser locus of Grace, Greater Locus of Swiftness & Exalted Locus of Beguilement)
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Re: Discussion on Fleshing out the New Cult of Slaanesh

Post by Daeron »

I'm not a Cult of Slaneesh player, eh.. rather the Khaine-type. But I thought, perhaps, as an outsider I could give feedback on some points. I have the 3 army books (daemons, warriors, DE's). I'd gladly look into the proposed rules, and if I would find someone willing to play test it, I wouldn't mind playing the opponent... or play tester.

In terms of composition, now, I do see a "worry". Shades as core is rather powerful choice. Combined with some chaff the core already offers, you can set out for an extremely powerful army. I would:
- Either put a limit on the Shades (say, 0-1 choice with a model limit)
- Either move them to special
Right now, you could make a Dark Elf gun line list. If Shades would have had BS4, there wouldn't have been a concern. But at BS5, with their current rules... they are a bit much for Core.

I do think Chaos Warriors deserve to be in this list, as core or Special. I think Special would make the army list more interesting/challenging, but they do fit the style of the book.
The same goes for Chaos Marauders in Core. The unit from the Warrior's book would be fine, I think.
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Re: Discussion on Fleshing out the New Cult of Slaanesh

Post by xFallenx »

Daeron wrote:I'm not a Cult of Slaneesh player, eh.. rather the Khaine-type. But I thought, perhaps, as an outsider I could give feedback on some points. I have the 3 army books (daemons, warriors, DE's). I'd gladly look into the proposed rules, and if I would find someone willing to play test it, I wouldn't mind playing the opponent... or play tester.

I have those three books as well as the original CoS .pdf. I’m currently (attempting) fleshing out the list out to try on the tabletop. A couple of the guys in our group are more than happy to playtest units as well. Your input & exp with those three books would be very welcome.
Daeron wrote:In terms of composition, now, I do see a "worry". Shades as core is rather powerful choice. Combined with some chaff the core already offers, you can set out for an extremely powerful army. I would:
- Either put a limit on the Shades (say, 0-1 choice with a model limit)
- Either move them to special
Right now, you could make a Dark Elf gun line list. If Shades would have had BS4, there wouldn't have been a concern. But at BS5, with their current rules... they are a bit much for Core.

This actually raises a very interesting issue: On the assumption that prior army composition is equal to current army composition while using current unit rules to replace prior ed rule sets.

The Shades were core choices in the original list, but as two editions have passed since it’s making, the unit itself has probably gone through quite the transition… very good point and well worth investigating further. Did BS move a pip or two from 6th to now? Did some of the special rules change in significant ways?

This also leads us to ask the following: What is the overall goal of the army, fluff for fluff sake, or rules for gameplay sake?
Ideally I would like to play CoS lists based on a fluffy theme, so finding a balance between the two becomes a top priority for me.
To play it on the tabletop we could use “counts as” for units (as has been suggested). The use of BG to represent Chaos warriors or the use of Warriors to represent BG…

Daeron wrote:I do think Chaos Warriors deserve to be in this list, as core or Special. I think Special would make the army list more interesting/challenging, but they do fit the style of the book.
The same goes for Chaos Marauders in Core. The unit from the Warrior's book would be fine, I think.


Chaos Warriors & Marauders have been brought up before so further discussion is welcomed. (The way I was looking at it was that both of those units could be replaced by what we already have available to us through Dark Riders & Black Guard. Not to mention that a Dark Elf, fluff wise, would completely write off “Human” trash as inferior to what he already has available). There was a place for all three books in the first incantation of the Army(Marauders in Core & Warriors in Special), so dismissing a third of it due to my own feelings is completely unfair.

My question is:
What do the chaotic humans offer that isn’t better represented by what DE’s already have available?

DR’s vs. Mtd Marauders?

Black Guard vs. Chaos Warriors?

The original choices for the CoS were:
Core:
DE Warriors (Shards/swords or spears now? All three?)
Devoted of Slaanesh (Very similar to Witches)
Shades
Marauders
Daemonettes
Special:
Dark Riders
Cold Knights
Mounted Daemonettes
Warriors of Chaos
0-1 Furies
Rare:
Spawn of Chaos (Had to be upgraded to fiends)
Repeater Bolts
0-1 Knights of Chaos.
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Re: Discussion on Fleshing out the New Cult of Slaanesh

Post by Daeron »

The question is, do you want the "Cult of Slaneesh" that's solo Dark Elf, namely a Dark Elf army that comes out of hiding from worshipping the forbidden religion or do you want the army under Morathi's control, made with a pact with the Warriors from the North?

The original CoS was designed for the latter, if my memory serves me well, so I'd say the Chaos Warrios beat Black Guards in style for that list. Elves might employ them to do the dirty/silly work the way Malekith employed the Chaos army (with Morathi's body as payment) in the recent campaign on Ulthuan, N'Kari included. Besides, I doubt the Elves could strike a deal with Chaos Warriors and then deny them the glory of battle.

IN play style, they might fit the list better as well. The Cult of Slaneesh is an offensive, combat focused army. Black guards are good, but a bit frail... The original CoS was (re)known for its heavy combat. The team-up with the Elves makes them more cunning and strategic, more controlled and diverse... but I think if you bring Chaos Warriors to the table, you'll automatically home in on a more combat "grind everything" focused list. They have all the tools of the trade and customisability in the current book to offer a diverse style to whomever wants to. They have the durability, armour and sheer combat power that distinguishes the Cult of Slaneesh from the pure Dark Elf book.

As for the Shades, in 6th edition they did have BS4. They costed 14 points, couldn't get a second hand weapon or great weapon, didn't have ASF or any rerolls. With such reduced options, they were far less popular (see high elves..). But with BS5, their current upgrades and rules... they'd be the fright of everyone.
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Re: Discussion on Fleshing out the New Cult of Slaanesh

Post by xFallenx »

When you put it that way, I think you’re right in that the original intent for the army was probably based on the latter. Def Morathi raising an army of her choosing, which almost definitely include troops available from the north to fill out her ranks of troops.

That is quite the difference between editions, makes me wonder about what other differences we'd find. Would it be enough to slide them to special, or would something like that also need to be restricted in number? I think the combination of both may be a bit on the heavy side, but on the other hand, only one may not be quite enough. I guess it would come down to the context of the army as a whole, maybe one option would become sufficient....
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Re: Discussion on Fleshing out the New Cult of Slaanesh

Post by Daeron »

I believe with Shades in special, they "auto-balance". You can't make a gunline list, nor a pure evasion list. That's not to say they can't try, but they won't be as proficient in it as the pure Dark Elves. It would be good enough for the odd game, not good enough for a competitive environment.

I feel the combat cavalry could use more options. The Cold One Chariots are often gifts of Malekith. Perhaps Morathi could hand them out as well. I believe you could, instead, add the Chaos' core chariot or a Slaneesh chariot in the rare slot. It would increases the variety of a mounted list, even the infantry list, without breaking the "Chaos" style and without reducing the need for combat.

I would also second the idea to permit aWarlock army. With Shades in special, I think you can move Warlocks to special as well. What frightens me about the unit is how powerful it can be in close combat and so it doesn't need to rely on magic to be worth it.. BUT, I think it would offer the option of going for 3-4 small Warlock units or 2 big ones. The real change is that they can be combined with Chaos Knights instead of Cold One Knights. I think that would benefit the theme, but it would potentially be one of the most powerful cav lists in the game. For the fluff players, it might make more combinations with Chaos Spawns possible.. which is always fun :)
A large warlock army would rely on combo charges to win against large blocks though, so some specialized/tactical armies might be able to deal with such an army effectively. You also lack shooting and power dice to rely solely on that to win the day.
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Re: Discussion on Fleshing out the New Cult of Slaanesh

Post by Dangerous Beans »

Brilliant discussion!

Heres the original Storm of Chaos List:
http://rosters.mysteria.cz/ostatni/down ... aanesh.pdf

And here the previous Druchii.net incarnation discussion thread:
http://www.druchii.net/viewtopic.php?f= ... f+Slaanesh

And finally, here is the fruits of their labours:
http://cultofslaanesh.prv.pl/7th_ed_CoS_v0.967.pdf
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Re: Discussion on Fleshing out the New Cult of Slaanesh

Post by Dragon9 »

The difference between 6e Shades and now is +1 WS/BS and being able to do 2 HW or GW. Well, there's ASF and MP also. 6e Shades were 2 points cheaper base.
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Re: Discussion on Fleshing out the New Cult of Slaanesh

Post by Kzar »

I am loving the 7th edition list. I like the ideas for all the new units in it, but this brings up more questions.

1. Should we implement changes straight from 8th ed army books?

For points, I think this is a good idea. Most units can be upgraded easily.

2. What should we do about special rule changes?

Soporific Musk for example has changed what it does. Should we use the 8th ed rules and change point cost (if needed) or change the name of this special rule to something that won't conflict with current special rules.

3. Daemonic Gifts and such.

How should we handle these? The daemonic gifts changed drastically, and many of the WoC things were lost or changed.
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Re: Discussion on Fleshing out the New Cult of Slaanesh

Post by Kzar »

Alright. I had some time over thanksgiving break and I edited the 7th edition army book. I updated all existing units from their current armybooks, and edited point cost of CoS specific units. Also, I did not add any of the special characters yet.

What would be the easiest way to post the list?
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Re: Discussion on Fleshing out the New Cult of Slaanesh

Post by xFallenx »

For units that you've adjusted, just post the adjustments. For example:
"Warriors of Chaos, +1A, everything else as per Chaos warriors 7th Ed;
Daemonettes +2pts/per, +1I everything else as per Chaos Daemons 8th Ed" ect.
Also, what 7th ed list are you talking about? I wasn't aware that GW released a 7th ed CoS list. Do you have a link?
Thanks for your work, I'm excited to see what you've come up with.
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