The Hydra Blade - Do we love it or hate it

[Prince daerlythe]

Hey Everyone,

So while dreaming up different character builds, I`ve come to ask myself a question. Is the new Hydra Blade a viable magic weapon for us to take? Right now I'm on the fence about it, and want your opinion.

Here's how I currently see the Hydra Blade:
Only useful in giving it to a DL, who can muster the AS needed to protect himself.
Only reliable as a troop-killer weapon until paired with Lore of Beasts.
Ld test not that big a problem thanks to ASF re-rolls.
When used in combination with Beasts, makes a kill-all-kill-many character.

What do you guys think?

[Askador]

I think its useless trash.

Dont know what to add here. Its just not good. I would consider taking it for 50 Points.

[Cold73]

Not for the amount of points it costs.
buying this will leave you without any magical protection. And since 5-10 S4 attacks will rarely make a difference, you really need that protection.

[Dalamar]

It's too unreliable for 100 points.
Then you couple that with split personality (its a weapon against troops... but sometimes it's a weapon against multi wound large creatures... but you don't decide when it is which weapon, it's totally random.
So you may end up charging a rnf unit only to fail ld and you can't hit enough... then you charge a monster and suddenly you have a million S4 attacks.

If you could choose which effect it has, it would be ok. Not amazing but ok.

[Askador]

It's too unreliable for 100 points.
Then you couple that with split personality (its a weapon against troops... but sometimes it's a weapon against multi wound large creatures... but you don't decide when it is which weapon, it's totally random.
So you may end up charging a rnf unit only to fail ld and you can't hit enough... then you charge a monster and suddenly you have a million S4 attacks.

If you could choose which effect it has, it would be ok. Not amazing but ok.

Agree 100%

[necrotix]

I never understand the mentality GW has sometimes when it makes things super expensive and then throws in a random chance of them just being bad. Things like the Entombed for TKs also springs to mind. I don't mind random things happening from time to time but you're not going to want to pay 100pts for something you are not guaranteed to be consistent in what is does.

[Shearov]

I think if I took it, I'd only take it for HKB, in which case I'd be wanting to fail the Ld tests. Seeing as you can't hex yourself, it would be too much of a risk running up to a Monster etc... and then passing and during 3 puny attacks at the creature rather than taking the chance to HKB it.

[Omnichron]

Way to random for an effect that might kill something outright... It's a hopeless item and I'll never use it. I absolutely hate it and wish I could remove it from the items list entirely.

[Dyvim tvar]

If I want a magic weapon that gives extra attacks (which I don't) I will take a magic weapon with a fixed bonus to attacks for far fewer points.

If the thing gave a strength bonus as well then maybe we could talk.

[T.D.]

Old Hydra Blade was +D6 attacks for 70 points.

Liked it better!

[Haagrum]

I'd like it more if it was 20 points cheaper. That said, with the right support, it turns the wielder into a slaughtering machine. It's viable, but there are better options depending on your army set-up.

[No Saves]

I would be happier if it were struck off the list and replaced with NOTHING. It's that bad. It poisons our book just by existing. Think about it - the HKB is balanced out by 1) giving you MINUS 5 to WS, and 2) being not only unpredictable, but UNLIKELY to occur. So let's assume that that's worth, what, 20 points (if anything)? What are the other 80 points paying for? Oh right, +D6 attacks! Noice! But wait, aren't you just as likely to roll a 1 as you are a 6? Doesn't that mean... that although you have the chance to have a ton of attacks, you also have an equal chance to have a small bonus, therefore it has no more inherent value than a static bonus in between the two extremes? Hey, that already exists! And it costs... 60 points???!!!! Wtf? This sword would be worth 60 or maybe even 70 points, but costing so much as well as preventing you taking ANY other magic items means it is worthless!

[Dalamar]

For a moment I was thinking of using it on supreme sorceress as a funny surprise... But then realized it would make Sorceress WS -1... so it's pointless.

[Elodin]

My problem with it isn't so much the rules, but the cost.

The effect is nice, though random with a potential for backfiring and for 100 points (and the inability to bring any magical defense/utility) I just don't see that being a worthwhile investment.

It's not an item that I would lambast a person for bringing, but it's too random/expensive in my opinion to be worth bringing. (For example, you really need the Heroic Killing blow and you pass the LD test, you really need a lot of extra attacks and you only get 1. Unless luck is on your side you're very likely to end up wasting the points you dropped on it.)

[Searinox Nagharha]

Is it a viable Magic Weapon? No, to random and to expensive. to make it shine you need to buff your DL's Strenght in one way or another. and since this thing eats all of your Magical allowance your relying on magic to bring the power

however, can it be a fun Magic Weapon? I think so. i like a bit of randomness in my game and if im playing for pure fun i might try it once or twice.

[Daeron]

It feels like a classic "We don't know how to balance it in a playable way, so let's just make it expensive instead" move. They poured in some ideas in the item and put it on the list of "this item will make it in the final print".
Then they tested it a couple of times and became unsure of the point cost. If the point cost was too cheap, then whatever flaw it had could perhaps be solved by other items. Think on it. In combination with a potion of strength, it could slay monsters and characters in a single round. That would be overpowered. So they made it 100 points. Problem solved. Maybe it's unplayable, but at least the problem is solved.

It's a similar treat with some other units, like bloodwrack shrines and a cauldron of blood. They can be combat multipliers, which makes them difficult to balance. If they come cheap, they can be used at any time and prove overpowered when used to maximum effect. By making it expensive, you have to work for it to make it worth the points and it introduces a weakness... a weakness that might prove too difficult to cover in a competitive list.

But for a fun or fluff list it might be perfect. And who knows? Maybe the combination with mind razor or beast lore might yield you a moment of glory!

[Omnichron]

I can already see how they came up with this thing...

Bob: "Guys, the new super weapon of dark elves"
Fred: "Gotta be awesome for sure!"
Hank: "With lots of attacks!"

Bob: "Well, dark elves already have lots of attacks, it is kinda fluffy to get even more I guess"
Fred: "We could just bring out a new version of the Executioners Axe you know. That one is awesome and not far off in balance"
Hank: "But with lots of attacks!"

Bob: "We can't have Executioners axe and lots of attacks. Anyways, we are around to do remakes and drop items, not take something from the past!"
Fred: "Well, the Hydra blade adds attacks. We could just get adjust that one even though it was one of the weapons used the least together with the chillblade"
Hank: "Yes, but more attacks!"

Bob: "It's not a weapon of epic proportions though... we need something extra"
Fred: "Well, killing things outright is somewhat dark elfish. Killing blow then? It's a bit weak as things are now. Heroic killing blow?"
Hank: "With super frenzy for more attacks"

Bob: "Heroic Killing Blow... Yes, that's it. It's really powerful with random number of extra attacks, lets send it to Stewie for playtesting and evaluation"
Fred: "High five!"
Hank: "Can we get CoB and Witchbrew to work together for additional attacks?"
Fred and Bob: "NO!"

1 day later:
Stewie: "Bob!"
Bob: "Hi Stewie, I am really in a hurry... but what could you say about the playtesting?"

Stewie: "Nice weapon. I made a few adjustments and valued it to 100 pts."
Bob: "Cool story bro, lets wrap it up and print it! I gotta go though, Hank is in the hospital after some mental collapse"
Steweie: "But, I'm not sure if..."
Bob: "I trust you Stewie, you learned your lesson after that banner slip up, so I expect a weapon that isn't too powerful! See you!"

[No Saves]

I think their thought process was more like:

*$$$$$$$$$$$$$ BLEURGH +D6 ATTACKSEAURGH SMEARBLEUURGH $$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$ HKB HNNNNNNNNGH DON'T GIVE A $%!& BLEEAAARGH 100 PTS WHO CARES $$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$ HNNNNNGH SELL MODELZZ HNNNNGH*

[Searinox Nagharha]

Mmh... I like Omnichron's version better
Tho yours might be more accurate xD

[Daeron]

Well, I'd give them the benefit of the doubt and believe they actually gave it more effort than that. I think they did playtest it, or tried to make some mock builds and ended up with a load of overpowered combinations. Something offering these abilities can quickly become overpowered with other combat multipliers, even if those other multipliers are limited to a single use.

I think they raised the point cost to 100 to just flatout kill such combinations, and any future combinations should a new BRB come along. Unfortunately, such a crude method makes the item difficult to use...

[Dalamar]

And yet the cloak of twilight is only 50 points.

[Daeron]

A clear design choice to make it accessible for Masters and sorceresses… and at a cost that prohibits them to combine it with other stuff

[Dalamar]

Doesn't prohibit from combining it with chillblade, obsidian blade or a simple potion of strength and a lance.

[Daeron]

Not a potion of strength. But it can be combined with the chill blade, or obsidian blade .. or an ogre blade. And it would make a powerful combination. With 4 attacks.
It's a good build though, and one I had in mind of trying. But it will be considerably more challenging to destroy, say, a steam tank… in one go. Or you could combine that with the obsidian blade and negate its armour, but then you're wounding on 6's for D3 wounds instead of a heroic killing blow. There will be opponents where it's more effective against. And there will be opponents where it's less effective against. Considering they are both 100 points, this shouldn't be a surprise.
You know, this is one of the things we could model or solve with the Combat Pit if I ever get around doing it

[marcopollo]

It is a very unsophisticated weapon if you ask me. There are no nuances to it. And for 100pts, I will not spend any more mental energy on it. GW could have done so much better on this one. Perhaps they were looking ahead to 9th edition. But I doubt it.