Seven game losing streak.. what am I doing wrong?

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nevaenuffbass
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Seven game losing streak.. what am I doing wrong?

Post by nevaenuffbass »

As the title suggests, it's been a while since I've actually won a game. They haven't been all hard match-ups or anything - some have been pretty casual games. Some have been tournament lists. But I figure I must be doing something wrong.

So I need to have a bit of an overhaul to my approach, and I seek your assistance.

What I have done so far
My general strategy has been to out-magic and out-shoot the enemy, and have a big unit sitting back to clean up whatever makes it to my lines. That big unit has general been 20-30 executioners with a death hag and witchbrew. I have normally sought an refused flank style deployment, where one side is heavier than the other. I take 2-4 min units of fast cav, and normally something else reasonably quick to hunt warmachines and / or get behind the en lines. THa fast things have been most commonly 5 x cold one knights, but also a peg-master with cloak of twilight. Some lists have been monster heavy - 2-3 monsters, some have none (no in-between). I always take a lvl 4, often Morathi and have used dark, shadow and death. I take 3-4 bolt throwers.

The meta
I play in a non-comp environment, but often against friendly opponents. I have come against 2 skaven armies, 2 HE armies, 3 ogre armies a WoC army and an Empire army. I don't know how everyone else plays, but I tend to find that there are a lot of tough things in armies and or a lot of 1+ / 2+ armour (skaven run multi-doomwheel, HPA, verminlord, ogres with mournfang and ironblasters; all cav empire lists; Dragon prince deathstar; skullcrushers + chariots + chaos knights + trolls for WoC).

Strategy
I believe strategy comes before list-building. I can see a few options for general strategy.
1- evasion -
running a list that doesn't stand still, lots of fast cav, flying characters, missile weapons. I am not sure quite how this style of army would work, as inevitably you actually need to kill more than your opponent to win, and any static parts of the army would get massacred - bolt throwers, infantry units.

2- Multiple combat block
Looking to build 3 or so units and support them in getting to the enemy quickly and with the match-ups they want. The difficulty I have here is that I'm led to believe that other armies do it better, and each dark elf cost so many points the blocks end up being expensive and fragile, at least in my mind. Would suit a cauldron.

3- Shooting / magic heavy
Not much different from what I am doing now. Maybe looking to fill core with darkshards, supported by maximum reapers, 6-8 levels of magic and some token counter attack. Idea being to sit back and let them come to you shooting the fastest first, and trying to delay them with fast cav

4- Deathstar
Putting half the points of the army into a big tough unit with multiple characters and using it to wipe out as much of the enemay as possible, perhaps hiding it when it is under 25% to deny points. IF I was to do this, I'd suspect it'd be best done with cold one knights.


Curious to know what strategies other players use.

I'm also keen for any articles on playing well anyone can recommend.

Previous lists
In order to apply the strategy I outline above, I'll share my last list (2400) which lost convincingly to warriors of chaos last night

LORDS
lvl4, dark peg, item of +1 to dispel attempts, 4+ ward, shadow
HEROES
Pegmaster with cloak of twilight etc
lvl 1 with metal, dispel scroll
Death hag, witchbrew, BSB (in execuitioners)
CORE
12 darkshards
2 x 5 dark riders, shields, RXbow
15 witches, Fcomd, flaming banner
SPECIAL
30 executioners, Fcomd, std of discipline
8 COKS, full comd, cleaming std
3 reapers
RARE
5 warlocks

In a recent tourney (0 wins, 1 draw, 3 losses) I ran the following at 2000

LORDS
Morathi

HEROES
Death hag, ogre blade, bsb, witchbrew

CORE
As above, with slightly fewer RXbows / witches
SPECIAL
5 COKs, gleaming std
21 executioners, fcomd
3 reapers
Hydra, fiery breath
RARE
5 warlocks

List building challenges

The biggest challenge I face is knowing what to do with my core. I have been running a few small units for that 25% as dark riders are generally handy, small units of RXbows are good for clearing chaff and I don't want to spend any more on core than I have to. So I end up with a mid-sized unit of witches (I also only have 15 of them, but more are in the post). I am contemplating a major re-build and looking to have a combat block made out of core. It is just that they all seem so limited by S3. Sure, without fail they'd be great with a spell (wissans, okkams) but my opponents seem a tad too good at shutting down my magic for me to rely on that. It is tempting to use the COB to make something more terrifying out of the witches - but then it is a massive point investment that seems vulnerable to cannonballs (good bye cauldron), 1+ armour (witch would either tarpit or destroy the unit) and frenzy where they end up on the wrong side of the enemy line after destroying something cheap (forced overrun).

Alternatively I could have more / bigger units of dark riders, but I don't think that they'd do well in bigger numbers. I have also considered a big unit (24 as that is how many I have) of darkshards with shields. But the bolts seem to just bounce off enemy armour, or to not wound monsters (as soon as it is T5 I'm needing 6s).
What do others do with their core?

Characters. I find it so hard to balance characters to the rest of the army. I have use for mutliple casters, lord and master level combat characters, BSB / COB, but it is so hard to fit them in. I've decided that while Morathi is great and versatile, she is a lot of points that can do nothing. But a lvl 4, purely for defence, doesn't cost much less. And even when my magic goes well, I am not sure I always get my points back. Last night I cast pit of shades and killed 4 trolls, and killed 4 knights with searing doom, and doombolted a chaos spawn. However I did shut down his mage to doing no damage with magic. IF I were to run my list from last night again, I'd drop the dark peg on the master for either a dark steed or cold one, and find a way to give the BSB back her ogre blade. I don't know that the lvl 1 was absolutely necessary, but I was struggling with all the 1+ armour saves on the table (even then searing doom needs 3-4 dice on a lvl 1 and then is vulnerable to being dispelled).

I could probably go on for hours. So I'll stop there and thank-you for reading this far. I'm looking forward to your comments / feedback.
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Re: Seven game losing streak.. what am I doing wrong?

Post by Phierlihy »

Your list looks solid so I suspect you may have a deployment issue (I find MOST games are won in the deployment phase). What is your typical deployment order?
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nevaenuffbass
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Re: Seven game losing streak.. what am I doing wrong?

Post by nevaenuffbass »

I place my drops in this order: RXbows, dark riders, dark riders, warlocks, bolt throwers, witches, whatever is left, reacting to other guys deployment. My goal is to have his army come at me piece meal, so I can focus on it one or two units at a time.
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Re: Seven game losing streak.. what am I doing wrong?

Post by Canadianguy »

Try dropping RBTs first. They can be a bit of a psychological factor in influencing your opponents lay out. Or do all your vanguarding troops on one flank, they can either repoisition quickly if you don't like what he puts opposite or wrap a flank quickly if he ignores them.
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Re: Seven game losing streak.. what am I doing wrong?

Post by Calisson »

The list sounds good, except for:
- too many characters in the first list, the purpose they serve might be less useful than more special troops.
- vulnerable DH in both lists. A DH BSB has inherently little protection unless she drives a COB and gets 4++.
You might be better off with a pegasus PSB or a CO BSB along with 8 COK.

Core troops all have only S3.
- DR are used as redirectors and warmachines hunters. Always good.
- RXBmen are ued to kill chaff, not much else.
- combat troops have S3. They can best opponent's core infantry, not much else. In order to use them efficiently, you must deploy them facing the appropriate match, and avoid being charged by your opponent's specials. That is tricky.

Special/rare are here to provide the high S that we need. RBT, execs (but they don't run fast), COK (on the charge), COC (on the charge), hydra or better kharib.

Characters should be kept minimum and must be chosen for a specific role that nobody else can hold.
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Re: Seven game losing streak.. what am I doing wrong?

Post by Vulcan »

Your ultimate problem is that DE shooting doesn't win games by itself. Our shooting is handy to weaken target units before combat, but we really live and die by the close combat phase.
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Re: Seven game losing streak.. what am I doing wrong?

Post by Gerner »

Vulcan wrote:Your ultimate problem is that DE shooting doesn't win games by itself. Our shooting is handy to weaken target units before combat, but we really live and die by the close combat phase.

Shooting should take care (remove) chaff so your good units can fight the real battle instead of fighting something dumb.
Shooting can almost never kill the opposite army (unless you are a dwarf), so don't try to do that.
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Re: Seven game losing streak.. what am I doing wrong?

Post by Gidean »

I share your pain. Your meta is close to mine. My biggest struggle is the WoC and Mounted Empire Armies. Our Skaven players never run Vermind Lords though. I wish they would. Those are easy points for us. Your reapers should be single shooting them all day long. You might want to take Metal Magic on your level four since so many of your opponents run heavily armored lists. You might try an all mounted list. Can run circles around the Empire, prevent the Skaven player from getting the Dread 13th off on you, keep the Dragon Prince Star constantly rotating and will be immune to stomps... There's a few examples in our Army Lists section.
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Re: Seven game losing streak.. what am I doing wrong?

Post by Setomidor »

I agree with Phierlihy, your problem is most likely in the deployment phase as your List looks good and the match ups look decent. Best thing would be if you could make an illustrated battle report of your next game and show us how you plan, then we could help you analyse that in detail!
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Re: Seven game losing streak.. what am I doing wrong?

Post by Archamedius »

A couple suggestions:

As mentioned before, shooting does not win games. Ballistic Skill shooting is a terrible phase of the game across all armies with few notable exceptions. Dark Elves (unless you abuse the cauldron rules, and even then it is debatable) are not one of those exceptions. Shooting should be used to soften the army up and clear chaff.

Redirectors: You need to make sure you have a committed force of redirectors in your list that you are perfectly willing to sacrifice but also are good at fleeing and rallying. Dark Riders with a musician are perfect for this role. Taking several of these so you can redirect multiple units is a good option, IMO a better one than blocks of dark shards. They also serve as fantastic war machine hunters. I recommend 3 units or more of 5 with shields, rxb and musicians. 110 points a squad and worth every penny. If you need more understanding of the good things you can do with redirectors, check out the DRAICH article on this forum about it.

Characters: I think a Death Hag is a waste of points on her own. She's a heavy tax in what amounts to granting frenzy to the unit. I think if you really want frenzy in the unit, take Tullaris or a Death hag on a Cauldron in a unit of witches running within 12 of the executioners. Any general worth his salt who bellies up to the table across from you is going to figure out the step up rule means he can just throw ranks of troop attacks at her and kill her. In the end she's a WS 6 character so most standard troops hit on 4s and after that she's a toughness 3 2 wound model with no save. Incredibly easy to kill for her cost. Put her on a cauldron and it is a different story IMO, but without it, she is a waste of points.

Monsters: With Ogres, WoC, and Empire in your list of common opponents, one monster is just cannon bait IMO. You need to either saturate the field with them so that enough can get through to do damage (possible to do, but tricky) or just leave them home. The odd hydra or Kharibdyss is just going to get shot to hell early.

Dealing with 1+ enemy units: You seem to have a lot of opposing units with 1 up armor saves but not a lot outside the horde of executioners to deal with that (Or CoK). If you face these often then you should consider reinventing the army to better approach them. For instance a level 4 in metal, multiple units of Executioners/CoK, CoK Chariots, etc. Dark Elves do not have a lot of good anvil units, so we need to approach the game as if we are going to use our redirectors as our tanks by tieing up (hopefully through failed charges) the units we do not want to face and then melting the units our specials are engaging. The WoC players I see where I play love the unkillable BSB on a disc of Tzeentch, so keep that in mind and consider investing in the other tricksters' shard. They also seem to like death stars and a wonderful, cheap counter to death stars is the sword of anti heroes. Check it out.

Reapers: YMMV, but I find these even at 70 points to be a waste. They normally only hit half the time, and STR 4 AP I find underwhelming when it can just be charged by your enemies fast cav, and the rank piercing shot is terrible. I'd take that 210 points and invest in more reliable troops.



Closing thoughts:

Try to focus your army more, and think if a strategy based on what you build the army around before you even belly up to the table. Stick to that strategy as best possible until you have to adjust.
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Re: Seven game losing streak.. what am I doing wrong?

Post by Calisson »

Archamedius wrote:Reapers: YMMV, but I find these even at 70 points to be a waste. They normally only hit half the time, and STR 4 AP I find underwhelming when it can just be charged by your enemies fast cav, and the rank piercing shot is terrible. I'd take that 210 points and invest in more reliable troops.
Amongst Archamedius very valuable advice, I'd like to amend that one:
RBT must multishoot at nearly everything but the hardest targets.
The rule I've established is: multi-four, single-five.
Add the enemy's T and wounds (the more, the harder), substract the enemy's armour save (the less, the harder). Disregard ward saves.
If total is four or less, multiple shots gives better results, i.e. most of the cases.
With 3 RBT, you should average statistics.

In addition, RBT must pick up their targets. Shoot at what annoys you the most in the ensuing melee.
Usually opponent's flyers first (especially the Big Game). Then opponent's chaff.
Don't shoot at what you can handle in melee unless no juicier target available.
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Re: Seven game losing streak.. what am I doing wrong?

Post by Cold73 »

as most have already said your lists are really solid.
It might be deployment..but with the way you start deploying..i often do the same so i don't expect to many problems with that.....unless you are having trouble prioritising.
Kill fast units and chaff first...... your opponents ...especially WoC (high T + good armour); Ogres (High T; in combat by turn 2); and skaven (massive numbers) don't really fear your shooting much.

My piece of advice....
1) Keep the army you have...but try to pick the righ priorities...flyers; chaff etc..... Don't forget to use your Dark Riders to slow enemy units down (sacrifice them if you have too), and use these same units to make sure your Executioners only face one heavily armoured unit at a time. You need to be able to dictate when and where melee will take place.
2) If all this fails you might try to switch to a more melee heavy army. Don;t worry too much about about our core only being S3. Just learn to pick your fights, try to make sure that 2 of your units charge one of his. (at starting stages i might even adivice shadow magic...it has a good number of buffs to ensure you will win combat)

One thing to keep in mind...Dark Elfs really need to be played pro-active...no reactive..... you should decide when and where combat will be joined.
As most of us here will agree the battle is often one in the movement phase.
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Re: Seven game losing streak.. what am I doing wrong?

Post by nevaenuffbass »

Thanks for all the thoughts.

Calisson, I am not sure I understand your algorithm in regard to the bolt thrower say skullcrushers for example T+W = 7, minus armour save of 1 = 6 therefore single shot. Chaos troll, T+W= 7, minus armour save (6) armour save = 1, therefore multishot?

In the games I have lost, I think it has been about the executioners, now that you mention it. When they get multi-charged it ends badly, or if they get slimmed down by enemy shooting.

I mauy haqve an issue with prioritising. I tend to find that there are a few small units left. A single skullcrusher on one wound caused havoc for me, and i narrowly lost a game where there were several units with only a few elves left (only).

@archemedius - I hadn't considered the reapers to be unreliable, but perhaps you are right. Magic is definitely unreliable, maybe these are too. They did very little the other night against chaos.
I understand the death hag's vulnerability - but the way I play, it should be depleted units that come against the executioners, and I issue challenges with her (works better with the ogre blade). I find that the frenzy is necessary with the executioners. I need her as my BSB, which Tullaris can't do. But it is kinda a moot point and I think I do need to change the list up. Also I agree in regard to the dark riders. I normally take 2 units and a unit of warlocks.

I am tending toward upgrading the witches and the executioners, and dropping the peg master, lvl 1 and darkshards. 15 seems a silly number, either they overkill something, in which case 10 could have done the same job, or they don't make it at all, in which case there needed to be more or just 10.
With magic, well I am considering life might be more reliable - so many remains in play spells, and the throne so it is more feasible to 5-6 dice dwellers. Just not sure if I'll do okay without the offensive spells. Pit of shades is awesome against trolls, mindrazor is every bit of its reputation.

So list becomes 2 x combat block - 30 executioners, 30 witches, COB, lvl 4on dark peg w dispel scroll, 2 units of DR, 1 of warlocks, 2 reapers to clear chaff / fliers. With the remaining points I think I can squeeze in a K-beast and a chariot for counter-charging, or a second unit of warlocks (they are that good!). Fearful of cannons, of course, but that is because they are scary. I am also considering executioners vs. a big unit of COK. The list still feels very vulnerable though - everything needs to do it's job well. But it is more aggressive - I'll be moving toward the en.

The list at 2400:
lvl 4, dark peg, cloak of twilight, dispel scroll (345) lore of life? or shadow? Or death?
COB, BSB, cry of war, banner of armour piercing (360)

30 witches, fcomd, banner of flaming
5 Dark riders, musn, RXBow, shields
6 Dark riders, musn, RXBow, shields

30 executioners, fcomd
3 Reapers
5 shades (left over pts)
Cold one chariot

K-Beast
5 warlocks

Could drop the shades, a reaper and 10 executioners to fit in 8 COK with the gleaming std, or the shades, a reaper and 3 executioners for a hydra with fiery breath.

Thoughts?
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Re: Seven game losing streak.. what am I doing wrong?

Post by Calisson »

nevaenuffbass wrote:Calisson, I am not sure I understand your algorithm in regard to the bolt thrower
say skullcrushers for example T+W = 7, minus armour save of 1 = 6 therefore single shot.
Chaos troll, T+W= 7, minus armour save (6) = 1, therefore multishot?
Well understood.
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Re: Seven game losing streak.. what am I doing wrong?

Post by Archamedius »

Calisson wrote:
Archamedius wrote:Reapers: YMMV, but I find these even at 70 points to be a waste. They normally only hit half the time, and STR 4 AP I find underwhelming when it can just be charged by your enemies fast cav, and the rank piercing shot is terrible. I'd take that 210 points and invest in more reliable troops.
Amongst Archamedius very valuable advice, I'd like to amend that one:
RBT must multishoot at nearly everything but the hardest targets.
The rule I've established is: multi-four, single-five.
Add the enemy's T and wounds (the more, the harder), substract the enemy's armour save (the less, the harder). Disregard ward saves.
If total is four or less, multiple shots gives better results, i.e. most of the cases.
With 3 RBT, you should average statistics.

In addition, RBT must pick up their targets. Shoot at what annoys you the most in the ensuing melee.
Usually opponent's flyers first (especially the Big Game). Then opponent's chaff.
Don't shoot at what you can handle in melee unless no juicier target available.



The venerable Calisson is correct! If I was misleading in my statement I apologize. While I do not find the RBT a worthwhile investment, others find it invaluable and have it as an auto include. His multi-4 single-5 rule of thumb is spot on. Always use that tactic when firing the RBT it will help you maximize your use.
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Re: Seven game losing streak.. what am I doing wrong?

Post by TheGrayMist »

When I read your post I was excited because I had a similar problem but I've found a solution.

I agree about the deployment but I disagree about the shooting. Have a look at this list which I'm trying to make harder still: http://www.druchii.net/viewtopic.php?f=4&t=73824

Warlocks with soulblight are the best thing ever. Reducing toughness makes shooting so very effective and put that on a big unit twice an you're wounding on 2+ or 3+. It's very soft by the time it reachs combat. Remember that you can boost the spell to effect all units within 24". This makes shooting amazing.

As you've found out, our beloved Dark Elves have a weakness with Armour, making Metal an excellent choice for your Level 4. There are the obvious spells to wound on armour save BUT the best thing about Metal combined with a shooty army is that for 1+ armour saves, you can reduce it, then shoot them with AP shots. Even on light troops you can reduce armour from 5+ to 6+ and then your RXB's AP shots remove all saves entirely. Knights shouldn't have a save that is better than 4+ against bolt throwers e.g. -1 from magic, S4 and AP and that's what you use them for. That becomes a 5+ (light cav) when they start on a 2+ like Empire knights.

To add to your shooty army include the Ruby Ring for scouts in buildings, and if you can choose Final Transmutation do that, the stupidity is handy, and I've taken out so many characters by rolling a 6. Metal is an underrated lore for shooty Dark Elves.

I also find 2 units of Locks with a level 4 is sufficient. Overcrowding the magic phase with extra levels that need dice can hamper the success of a shooting army. You need more points in crossbows. Also give your RXB's shields as this makes them decent in combat with 5+, 6++. You're not going to win combat with them but you just need to hold the enemy up long enough to get your Cauldron/Cold One bus in.

Next take 4 bolt throwers, not even knights can stand up to that many S4 AP shots. Also, with empire knights, you IGNORE armour with single shot. This helps on those dirty characters with 1+ rerollable saves who think they can run around where they please.

Executioners, although I love them, are slow and you don't get rerolls due to great weapons. They are largely unarmoured which is bad news for a T3 army, and not very survivable. Cold Ones on the other hand with the CoB can mop up most things because they reach combat in decent numbers.

With your bolt throwers, don't deploy them right next to each other either. Position them so an overrun wont go straight into the next one.

All I'm saying is that shooting can win you the game, as long as you've got one combatty unit. There's nothing you can do about cannons, but even if it gets your CoB first turn, 10 CoK's is still solid.
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Re: Seven game losing streak.. what am I doing wrong?

Post by Ichiyo1821 »

Most of the posts above have great input and I will just try to speculate what might have been left out. I have always advocated threat equal threat saturation. At the risk of sounding braggy, to be honest it seems very easy to get around your list seeing that aside feom the shooting and magic, all you have are Execs that provide some sort of countercharge or acr producing unit. If I were a shootier army than Empire I wouldn't have a problem against it. If I were a close combat army, I know that I just have to avoid the Execs and bumrush your shooting line. Again shooting will not win you fights. In whfb, battles are decided by combat and the better you are in that area, the better off you go. Fix the list a bit first, notice how most of the games you just end up shooting chaff units?

When you finally fix the list. Look at your deployment strategy. Refuaed flank is right most of the time when using a shootjng army however that can backfire against you depending on terrain placement and or matchup. If he has too many fast high armored units and he dedicates a block to hold your lone counter charging unit then you will lose. My old late sparring partner in 6th edition warhammer was a pure 5-6 tray Bret lance army and I've gotten so used to engaging with fast armoeed threat against my shooting lines that I've adjusted my way of thinking against it. I pioneered 40 rxb lists and though they had their omg moments, they really more of a psychological and utility tool rather than a true killy gunline. Even if you throw rbts in the mix, Magic and shooting alone is not a good strat for DE competitively. You have to have a balance with your melee elements.

It's hard to comment on your generalmanship unless uou make a detailed battle report. Sometimes it's the small nuiances that make or break the game. 8 game losing streak is expected with DE as it is still a hard army to use if you mess up in the impt things. Remember the more you lose, the more you learn.
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Re: Seven game losing streak.. what am I doing wrong?

Post by Ichiyo1821 »

Btw your second list has too many points on characters. I understand that sometimes it can be a good strat for point denial but personally I prefer to just have a lot of units and combo charge everything all the time. I prefer gaining points by just wiping the board and killing everything as opposed to not giving points specially in a tournament setting. Getting massacres is better than minor victories if you aim to take top spot and DE when handled right can table opponents.
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Re: Seven game losing streak.. what am I doing wrong?

Post by nevaenuffbass »

I thought to provide an update...

I had two games over the weekend. Both had the double combat block - 30 witches, 30 executioners. The COB was with the witches. Supported by a chariot, hydra, 3 reaper bolt throwers, 2 dark riders units, warlocks, 5 shades and led by a peg sorceress (dark).

I won both games. Let me re-phrase that. The witches and cauldron won both games.

Now those two opponents are wiser, and every cannonball is going to be targeting that cauldron. Both opponents take cannons (empire & ogres).

I feel like the COB strategy is paper thin - it won't take many template weapons to kill it (even less to deal with the hag) and it is super susceptible to being frenzy baited. So, I am keen for your thoughts regarding keeping it alive.. Use terrain and hydras to block cannballs paths to it (that can backfire with the hydra dying andthe cannoball taking both out). Lore of life on the sorcerss to give the hydra back its regen?
Clever use of harpies to block unwanted saves?

The alternative - what other big combat blocks do we have that don't rely on the COB?
Cold73
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Re: Seven game losing streak.. what am I doing wrong?

Post by Cold73 »

Your Witch Elves will indeed be a lot more effective with the CoB...but even without it they are quite deadly.

Instead of the CoB ...why don;t you take several smaller units of witches....
Let him waste points on cannons... your troops are more then deadly enough to waste him in combat.
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Ichiyo1821
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Re: Seven game losing streak.. what am I doing wrong?

Post by Ichiyo1821 »

That is why I advoxate 4 hammers if possible in a DE army. With the new book you can actually make a list where everything just hurts. When I build my lists I make it a point that no matter what your opponent kills, there will always be another source of damege or threat. My current list is downright plain but effective.I don't have a single anvil. All my units are there to just kill kill kill. I have cok, execs witches kbeasts and warlocks on top of the rbts. Take your pick, I have a lot more pain coming your way. :twisted:
8th Edition

W/D/L
86/1/5

New AB
W/D/L
32/1/0

9th Age
W/D/L

Vae Victis
Character kill count -182

"To subdue the enemy without fighting is the acme of skill."

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Dark Elves
Dark Eldar
Death Korps of Kreig
nevaenuffbass
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Re: Seven game losing streak.. what am I doing wrong?

Post by nevaenuffbass »

@Ichiyo - what unit sizes do you use? Multiple small units style? Like 2 x 5 dark riders; 3 x 10 witches; 1 x 10 COK; 1 x 20 Execs; 2 x 5 warlocks?
Or bigger units like 30 witches; 30 execs; 10 COK; 3 x 5 fast cav ?
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Archamedius
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Re: Seven game losing streak.. what am I doing wrong?

Post by Archamedius »

Cannons can really hurt the cauldron. Honestly the hag on top is a tax, take her and dont worry about her dieing. She will, its inevitable. Your opponent doesn't get points until both her and the cauldron are dead. 4+/3+(magic) is actually fairly resilient. But you cannot be timid with it. Get that block into combat ASAP. I actually had a keeper of secrets charge the side of my witch elf block and die to just those 4 witch elves so don't fear flank charges too much. You can use dark riders or chariots to guard flanks if necessary.

Once in combat, the cannons will not threaten you any more. I also try to kit out my army so I have some fast cav/fliers to get turn 2 or 3 at the latest charges on those cannons to take them out. Part of the required strategy when facing artillery is effectively removing it from the game before it has too much of an impact.
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Ichiyo1821
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Re: Seven game losing streak.. what am I doing wrong?

Post by Ichiyo1821 »

I do a mix of 3-5 units of fast cavs 5 mieels per unit.
5x2 shades or 10
20 rxb
20-30 WE or Corsairs
21-30 Execs
My trademark 11-12 CoK
2 monsters

I mix and match but my constant is realky a combination of 4 hard hitting units. I use shooters just to "shape" the battlefield and kill chaff. If I manage to get Withering off sometimes I go for Rank and File units that is less than 25-20 models. If you have canons, I have a lot of nasty things you nees to shoot at but no matter what 2 of the 4 will be in your face turn 2.
8th Edition

W/D/L
86/1/5

New AB
W/D/L
32/1/0

9th Age
W/D/L

Vae Victis
Character kill count -182

"To subdue the enemy without fighting is the acme of skill."

Armies
Dark Elves
Dark Eldar
Death Korps of Kreig
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Zenith
Noble
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Re: Seven game losing streak.. what am I doing wrong?

Post by Zenith »

You're list looks solid.
Strategy summary tells me that you are no fool.

What helped me a lot, was learning the movement fase (charge, march, redirect, combat reform) by head and using this ofcourse.
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