Kheel wrote:My five cents on our new book after using it for cassual games, and in the tournament scene.
Good to see the thoughtful comments, but I strongly disagree with a few points.
Characters and magic items.
Only viable use of cloak of twilight is on a mage, as soon as a character with cloak of twilight is in combat, they pop and die. Use it on a level 4 on dark peg with mr 1. 3++ vs all shooting, and 2++ vs spells.
Absolutely not, IMO. The Cloak of Twilight on a Pegasus Rider is very good. On a Master, makes him the ultimate War Machine hunter and Chaff Remover, and also able to add combat power when needed. Still durable with a 1+ Armor save, Toughness 4, and 3 Wounds.
On a Dreadlord on Pegasus, still allows for a 1+ rerollable. This makes him more versatile, able to take on certain kinds of units as with Leadership 10, if you factor in probably taking no wounds you can hold even if you do poorly in your own attacks.
A Peg Rider with Cloak of Twilight has become an auto-include for me and it is one of my most consistently performing units.
Sac Dagger has been nerfed beyond useless. Noone takes it if they expect to win. Some take it in cassual games.
Certainly not beyond useless. However, I agree it isn't the strongest choice any more.
Black Ark Fleetmaster is a sad joke. They included a hero choice in the lord choice. Not even used in fluffy lists. There is no reason to take this piece of garbage.
Agreed.
High Beastmaster can not take heavy armor or shield. This is a bigger deal than one would think, also it is only LD 9. Saw it one time on a scourgerunner, did pretty well and was quite feared, but did never get it's points back.
I think that the High Beastmaster, while not as horrible as the Black Ark Fleetmaster, also doesn't bring enough to the table to warrant taking him in other than fluffy or friendly type games.
Death Hags with cauldron of blood is quite over priced for what it does. Does not see much play time. My personal taste is that I always include one with a moderate sized WE unit of 23-28 models. Since the Death Hag can not take any magic items except for poisons and magic weapons, she rarely survives round one. And if she does, she always dies to shooting and magic turn two. Never take any magic items or poisons on her, it never reaches combat alive.
This is untrue. It depends on what Army you face. If you face Dwarves/Empire/DoC/Ogres with a lot of cannons, then her chances of survival are quite low. Otherwise, she is likely to survive until combat and perhaps beyond.
Also, the Cauldron is quite good. The 5+ Ward save for the WE helps ensure a decent amount reach combat, and the Cauldron itself with T6, W5 and a 4++ is quite hard to get rid of itself. A Cauldron with 30 WE has become a staple in my lists as well and hasn't let me down yet.
Assassins are too expensive for what they do, and since they now take up hero points, I see no space in my army. Have never seen it in any tournament.
Agreed they are too expensive and don't do enough. Unfortunate as they are maybe my favorite unit fluff wise.
Core
Witch Elves are easilly our best core choice, second to black ark corsairs.
Witch Elves with a cauldron are deadly and has a strong ward save. I always take these with a cauldron, always.
Corsairs with hteir 4+ armor save and hand bows are great screeners. You move up close, open fire, get charged, stand and shoot or flee. You never charge with this support unit. If with adhw, the most common is a unit of 23-30. They are used by players that do not want frenzied units.
Spearelves/swordelves are really expensive for what they do, and compared with witch elves and corsairs, I myself never take them, and I see only a few smaller units.
Crossbowelves are really really really really over priced. But still a usefull unit. Mostly taken in smaller units with flaming banner.
Dark Riders can be seen in almost every dark elf army. They are just that good.
Largely agree here except I'd say Dark Riders are the second best choice instead of black ark corsairs. Fast Cav with a 4+ Armor Save is really nice to have.
Special
Harpies is rarely included nowadays, and my personal note is that htey are too expensive and due to the nerf and point increase, I see them as free points to my enemy. I see no place for these anymore.
People underestimate the fly ability. I started taking Harpies in my last three games or so and just having the ability to fly and redirect with ease has been invaluable. And a small unit of 5 is fairly cheap still at 75 points. Slightly worse than before but certainly still worth taking if you have a specific purpose in mind.
Executioners took a huge beating with the new book since they lost hatred, and use GW with their ASF. So they can no longer re-roll failed to hit rolls. However, they are 12p each, a bit too pricy for what they do, but they do see some play time every now and then. But they are more and more rarely played.
Again strongly disagree here. ASF has helped them a lot, due to their fragile nature, as it allows them to thin the enemy so they can't strike back. Also, with Murderous Prowess, most of the time every hit that they make will be a wound since they tend to wound on a 2+. Executioners are second only to WE IMO as a main fighting block.
Black Guards is probably the most stable unit we have, and they see much more play time now than with our previous book.
I think they'll see less play time. While they aren't bad, they are 15ppm. When you look at Executioners and Witch Elves, you have your can openers and meat grinders. Black Guard are sort of half way in between without being as good as either, and are a lot more expensive. They aren't useless, but to me they play second string behind Executioners and Witch Elves. They can be better if you build a strategy around them (Lore of Beasts or Power of Darkness, giving them +1S, make them a lot better for instance).
Bolt Throwers became cheaper, and they are as strong as they ever were. I would take at least 2 in any list. The more the better.
Agreed. 2+ in all lists IMO.
Cold one Knights got a buff, but an even bigger points increase. Due to stupidity, you never see them in the tournament scene, but I take them in friendly lists.
Cold one Chariots, same as cold one knights.
Stupidity isn't that big of a deal if you have a BSB nearby. CoK I think got worse, but can still be alright as a flanking unit. I actually like CoC quite a bit. They are really cheap for a T5 model with a decent amount of attacks, impact hits, W4 and 3+ armor. You get a lot of value for the points. They even have Repeating Crossbows as an added bonus.
Scourgerunner, not often seen, but every now and again they pop up.
To me, this thing is overpriced and doesn't do enough to justify its cost.
Shades are better now than they ever was. Usually played without command, with great weapon and in units of 6-8.
Shades are nice. GW or AHW are both good options. AHW is better if you want to use them to hunt war machines.
Hydra has become cheaper. I have rarely seen them with fire shooting upgrades, people tend to stick with the idea of playing them as cheaply as possible.
I think the Hydra became a lot worse. However, it is nice that it is in special so if you are looking for target saturation they fit the bill. Cheap cost as well. Spit fire is a horrible ability, don't buy it. However, if you have the points to spare, it is never bad to have flaming breath.
Rare
Medusas has seen a lot of play time in local tournaments. Current meta is 2 medusas and 2 bloodwrack shrines. This makes orc and ogre players cringe.
Interesting. I haven't seen that in my local meta. They seem too vulnerable and in need of babysitting with LD2. You do see some Bloodwrack Shrines though.
Warlocks are the new hydra, people play them with great variation. But most common is a smaller unit of 5-8.
Warlocks are amazing. I would take them even if they didn't have any casting ability whatsoever. They've never let me down and typically surprise people with their combat ability.
K-beast is seen as a good cann opener, used in any list facing warriors of chaos.
Kharibdyss is quite good in my eyes. Brings nice strength and has excellent stats for a monster. High initiative is really helpful when you hunt other monsters with it, or want to strike some Demigryph Knights before dying. Reroll successful leadership tests synergizes really well with Cry of War on a Death Hag.
Sisters of Slaughter, not the most popular among units, but have seen them one time. They were not too shaby, but they didn't do anything witch elves could not have done as easilly or better.
Agreed.
Sure we have less magic items than we used to, but that is the current trend. No new book has more than a few magic items available.
All in all, I like the new book.
I like the new book as well.
Anyway, those are my alternative thoughts.
and of course, warlocks. Mmhm.
