Shades in the meta

[N.I.C.K]

Are they worth it? With all the BS shooting and magic missiles floating around these days I find that increasingly they are just free points for opponents. What are people's thoughts on this?

[direweasel]

They are points for the opponent, since they pretty much never survive. But they shouldn't be FREE points. They should threaten enemy war machines, force them to adjust their deployment, distract shooting and charges from bigger (more expensive) units, and so on. I almost always take 2 units of 5 (with no armor and no command, got to keep them as cheap as possible).

[Vulcan]

If nothing else, your shades should be buying you a turn during which your opponent is killing them instead of something more valuable or vital to your battleplan. At best, they should be picking off warmachines, solo characters, and shooting off enemy chaff while at least one model survives the game to deny the enemy the points.

As direweasel said, they may give their points up, but they should never be FREE points.

[Holt]

I find that I include them in my list for just one purpos, to make my opponent second guess their deployment and try to allow for the possibility of scouts turning up behind them. Anything more than that is bonus really.

The best bit is when you then set up no where near their back line.

[marcopollo]

As scouts they deploy before vanguard moves. So if having vanguard units is important, or controlling vanuards of others is important, then shades can be very important. BS 5 is also nice.

[Vietnow]

They may be killing something more VITAL to your battle plan, but they are a pricey unit to lose. The loss of rerolls to hit with great weapons greatly hampered their usefulness. They can fight most warmachine crews with ease, but a lot of fast cav now have 4+ saves. Their potential targets are limited. A unit of 5 can still rear charge chariots and win mostly off the +3 cr, but their attacks bounce off, and they get killed back. In the old days you'd charge and inflict wounds, then lose a few guys. You'd still win combat by 2-5, and break the chariot.

The increase in fast cav saves also limits their usefulness when shooting. Now they save on 5's.

I feel they fill partial roles for 2 other units in the army book; Darkshards and Harpies. At BS 5 they're only 4pts more expensive than darkshards. They do come from special, but have many other uses. They're only 1 pt more expensive than harpies, can't fly, but can fill many of the same roles. Being scouts somewhat nullifies the lack of flying.

Still viable in an all comer's list. Potential targets have gone down and danger from magic missiles has gone up. Use them wisely, but don't expect them to come home. The recruiter for "shade school" must be one hell of a salesman.

I'd be curious to know what people feel is the optimal unit size. 5 keeps it cheap, but makes them very easy to remove. If they survive a magic missile, even if they panic, they have a good chance to rally and save points. 7 likely means your opponent will have to devote 2 magic missiles to clear them.

[N.I.C.K]

If I go 5 I go with AHW, if not 5 I run them 10 with GW. Any number in between I find gets to expensive to be disposable like a 5 man unit, but can't survive or put out the hurt like the 10 man unit needs to.

I understand the benefits with deploying/shooting but I find that their survivability is what leads me to leave them out more often than not these days. Dark riders fill a similar role, with -1 BS (which I know is a big deal), they are faster and most importantly is they have that all important 4+ AS. Considering they come out of core as well I am just struggling to find a place for the shades when dark riders seem to do the job almost as well, but with the added survivability and speed.

[Calisson]

Comparing Shades to Darkshards:
12-13 pts vs 16-17 pts, i.e. around 3/4
but
BS 5 vs BS4, when shooting multi, you hit at 66% over 50% at -1, 50% over 33% at -2, 33% over 17% at -3, which compensates or more.
Skirmishers are -1 to hit, which means against the usual BS3, or BS4 at distance, that compensates the cost difference. Then, yes, they are wounded a little more easily.
Templates hit many less shades than the concentrate darkshard formation. The difference matches the difference in pts.
Overall, the cost efficiency at distance is the same.


One major difference is that shades usually are less numerous and trigger faster the panic test.
Where shades hurt most is when you receive a magic missile.
On the other hand, shades have an easier game going exactly where you wish.

Overall, I would rate their cost-efficiency rather similar, with a small preference to shades.

[N.I.C.K]

I agree vs darkshards Calisson, however I think the comparison to dark riders is more what I was focusing on given the increased mobility/surviveability of the dark riders.

[Amboadine]

I agree vs darkshards Calisson, however I think the comparison to dark riders is more what I was focusing on given the increased mobility/surviveability of the dark riders.

I think this is where the synergy with Dark riders and Shades can give you a nice balance.

With the Shades, you can secure the vital Vanguard moves to allow your Riders the mobility and free movement that they need to perform to their potential. They also help to take the focus from the Riders, if someone is busy killing Shades chances are your Riders are save for another turn.

I like to run 3x Riders and 2x Shades. Personally I find this to be a nice balance of the two units and gives your opponent choices to make, and with choices comes the potential for errors.

[Daeron]

Overall, the cost efficiency at distance is the same.

If we compare the "chance to hit per point invested" for various "to hit" rolls:

The differences appear small.

However, I don't find the comparison entirely honest. Shades are more effective IMO. They can hide during deployment, and run into the field on turn 1 to make their first shots count (5+ to hit tops). Darkshards start at a 24" distance or more, losing out in shooting on turn 1 as they need 6+ to hit or worse. If the first 4 turns of shooting are the most valuable, that's a 25% penalty to get started with.
Darkshards are more likely to be within sight of enemy troops, as they deploy in your deployment zone. Shades can hide, making them far more "resilient" in the first turn of the enemy's game. It's also difficult to trick them into a bad deployment, whereas Darkshards can be tricked.
And sometimes, the enemy may hate to wheel and turn to catch your Shades. My Darkshards never managed to avoid a charge at all.
If the Darkshard unit is small, it's also a panic test danger to your other troops. This is less likely an issue for Shades.

I've been disappointed in darkshards many times. I've only been disappointed in Shades once.. and that was my own damn fault.
I must confess though... Perhaps I need to improve my Darkshard usage. I don't play at a competitive level at all.

[Dalamar]

My issue with shades is that they often go down real fast to a magic missile early in the game. Often my opponent will have far more threatening spells available that a small d6 s4 hits goes through and obliterates the shades. Bigger unit would solve that issue but then they start becoming a valuable target to put more efford into.

On the other hand they are too slow to get into the scary short range war machines (hellblasters/organ guns/cannon grapeshots) and never actually make it to their intended target.

Not to mention in my experience they charge some flank to help in a combat and give away more cr than gain.

But, if I were to choose between shades and darkshards (not needing to fill out core) it would be shades all the way. The flexibility of march and shoot is nothing to sneeze at even if they never go after war machines.

[marcopollo]

Just a small bonus to shades that no one has mentioned yet. Because they are skirmishers, a sorceress does slightly less damage to her unit during a miscast. Any miscast that deals damage to models in base contact will not do any damage to the shades. And, if the shades stretch out in a long rank, then the miscast templates also have less of an impact. Not a deal breaker but something to consider as makeshift bunkers for 6 dicing spells.

[Demetrius]

I think 10 of them for 160 points is a bargain. Scout into a building or onto the flank of the opponent's army and just sit there shooting 20 shots a turn at BS5, its amazing. Casting a cheeky Enchanted Blades on them as well for extra accuracy works really well, because you're opponent can't afford to throw dice at it if he needs to stop Final Trans.

[Olderplayer]

With all the vanguard and scouts out there in the current game and with a fast cav army (Warllocks and dark riders), I believe a small unit of shades becomes necessary to fence off and limit the space for the opposing player to place scouts and vanguard units in the deployment phase. I often go cheap and small, 5 models and no GWs or AHWs and only one or two units. I want my vanguard units to be able to get to the the middle of the battlefied and able to charge war machines and vulnerable stuff and clear chaff if the other guy goes first. If they go first and charge the scouts, then the scouts often flee behind a unit that vanguarded and create a failed charge or take the charge and act as chaff/redirectors.

With Wood Elves coming back, they are cheaper than waywatchers and can win that shooting match (both shooting MS2 with AP) on a points equivalent basis and will definitely outshoot deepwood scouts for the points. I typically do not rely on them to go after war machines simply because that is the job of my characters mounted on dark riders, dark riders, and peg master and stuff with M10 or M9 that can get there a lot more successfully (scout and vanguard cannnot charge if you go first on turn one anyway).

Magic missles, direct damage spells, and similar stuff (templates from magic or shooting) are usually better used on my dark riders and warlocks anyway, so, surprisingly, in my last tournament the sahdes survived 4 out of five battles and only did not survive because I used them as a chaff/redirector for a valuable reason. Similarly, I played a 3 round one day event (2nd out of 18 payers with an objective-oriented framework) and my shades survived two of the three battles and died providing a hard cover screen in the battle after killing almost their points worth of elite infantry models.

[Lhel]

Haven't really used the Shades to any great extent, but that's more due to my state of laziness of not getting the models done than their game value. As several above here have mentioned, they fulfill their role very well and compete on par with the other options available. I think it more comes down to the rest of the army and how the player wish to play. I would like to mention I really do think you should have a clear plan for your shades, just marching them into the other army will obviously get them killed...

[Red...]

With all the vanguard and scouts out there in the current game and with a fast cav army (Warllocks and dark riders), I believe a small unit of shades becomes necessary to fence off and limit the space for the opposing player to place scouts and vanguard units in the deployment phase.

A friend of mine showed me a trick with this. Place your shades exactly 12.1" in front of an opposing unit of fast cavalry. They now cannot move forwards, as doing so would immediately breach the rule that says a vanguard move cannot move within 12" of an enemy unit. The best he can do is move backwards or sideways (if he goes sideways, he may be able to get about one inch forwards, but that's all really). In a typical game, where an opponent fields two units of fast cavalry, placing two units of shades directly 12.1" in front of them effectively deprives him of his vanguard moves.

Of course, one consideration is that if he elects not to take a vanguard move and gets the first go, then he can charge your shades with his fast cavalry. That's not always a bad thing, though, as you get to stand and shoot (usually with 10 shots, hitting on 4s and wounding on 4s with a -1 to armour saves), followed by combat (in which you will usually go first, typically hitting on 3s with re-rolls and wounding on 4s).

Their biggest weakness remains their leadership. I have previously used them with some success as screeners, placed 12.1" in front of nasty enemy shooting units, preventing them from shooting at my soft skinned witches 12" further back (of course, he can still shoot at the witches, but with -2 to hit the proposition becomes a lot less appealing). However, if the shades are routed and flee back, then they flee back towards the witches, blocking the latter's path and turning the supposedly direct march forward into a quagmire of confusion, especially if the shades pass their leadership test on the subsequent turn, sticking them plum slap in the middle of the path again. They are then unable to move, and the witches cannot move through them, so this gives my opponent another round of shooting while I try to sort the mess out. With leadership 8, this is not an unlikely outcome - with leadership 9 it would be far less probable!

[marcopollo]

What about prioritizing the particular 10 pt add on's in a small 5 man unit. Is a standard worth it? Would you take weapon upgrades before command upgrades?

I am thinking the GW upgrade is best minor upgrade. Pschologically your opponent may not want to risk high init st 5 combat attacks, and you can run them with a front rank of 3 and a back rank of 2 to concentrate these attacks on specific models. This is small deterent that can keep them alive. Next best is a standard. Those pesky ethereals get a litle easier to manage with standards.

[Pablo]

I think as others have said you either go 5's or wayyyy bigger like 10-20. They are invaluable in my opinion in almost every matchup because of a couple of reasons.
They are good chaff/anti chaff. They shoot well and so are effective every turn. They also outfight the vast majority of other chaff out there.
They ensure/deny vanguards which is huge based on matchup. Woodies hate these up in their grill turn one because it limits their movement and often times they won't kill all of them in one go.
Lastly, psychology. They force your opponent many times to spread out his forces to stop scouts which. Is something you want. I'm happy if the game hasn't started and my opponent has to react to me.

[Dyvim tvar]

With all the vanguard and scouts out there in the current game and with a fast cav army (Warllocks and dark riders), I believe a small unit of shades becomes necessary to fence off and limit the space for the opposing player to place scouts and vanguard units in the deployment phase.

A friend of mine showed me a trick with this. Place your shades exactly 12.1" in front of an opposing unit of fast cavalry. They now cannot move forwards, as doing so would immediately breach the rule that says a vanguard move cannot move within 12" of an enemy unit. The best he can do is move backwards or sideways (if he goes sideways, he may be able to get about one inch forwards, but that's all really). In a typical game, where an opponent fields two units of fast cavalry, placing two units of shades directly 12.1" in front of them effectively deprives him of his vanguard moves.

This is a trick I use frequently, but more often with Chameleon Skinks in my Lizard army simply because I am having trouble finding the points for Shades in my Dark Elves. I the fast cavalry does charge on first turn, the Shades should be able to take them, especially if armed with Additional Hand Weapons -- Stand and shoot at BS 5 and then 10 or more attacks striking first with rerolls will mess up small units of most fast cavalry -- a unit of 5 shades with additional hand weapons against T3 5+AS fast cav should do about 4 wounds between the stand and shoot and HTH before the opponent gets to strike.

[Killerk]

for me 2 units of 5 is the way to go. They really help out in the moment and the deploy. As shades are the masters of board control. And as a support unit their damage output is irrelevant.
Darkshards are not only cost ineffective do to short range and multiple shot modifier. Their ability for board control is ... practically non existent, and if you try it is such a point sink that it is insanely cost ineffective. I wouldn't even consider to comparing the units.

shades help you in the deployment in 4 ways.
1. deny opponent a good vanguard
2. deny opponent preferable scout deployment
3. threaten soft targets, thus forcing opponent to deploy more defensive and covering all corners of the table.
4. slowing down enemy movement, they just stand in front of a unit forcing a charge, preferably one that forces a 90 degree wheel.

if they do that their damage output is not important. because they allow my units that are intended to output damage to do so, and preventing my opponent from unleashing his units upon mine.

what I usually do is stopped any spells targeting my shades in the first possibly second turn as a priority. past that they are less important as its time for combat and charges. and their job is done. any thing they do is a bonus.

my shades buy me the needed time to outmaneuver my opponent so I can get preferable charges, allowing me to take control of the game, and play it out on my terms. I use harpies and dark riders also but they need a turn of movement or the possibility to vanguard, shades are more versatile as they can go past the 12" line. And you cant get that from any other unit.