Happy with Sisters

[Scyloc]

Lol. There's a funny trend on D.Net to always conjure up ways that poor units are good

I have 2 answers for this.
1) Sisters are not poor. They are the best flaming hit squad we have (10 flaming sisters), and the best static combat block.
2) When playing under evolving comp, you need to constantly stay ahead of the curve to field the best DE army under each comp system. usually comp is focused on the std net-lists. Therefore if you want to succeed, exploring other options is the way to win tournaments.

you can't simply throw in 'well, if he shoots at unit A then he isn't shooting at unit B or vice-versa' as an argument, because its ultimately fairly meaningless.

Without an A and a B, the statement is indeed meaningless.
However i specifically mentioned that if he is shooting at your sisters (A) he is not shooting at your counter-fire-base (B)

I agree that its a complex point.

However if you are facing off vs for instance a HE army with 20 archers + 4 RBTs + 3 reavers, and you have roughly 20 RXBs + 4 RBTs + 3 Dark Riders. We all know that getting 1st turn is enourmously important!
Why is that? that is because the 1st player can remove perhaps 1/3 of the enemy fire base. In this setup perhaps take out a Dark Rider unit (with soul quench), Archers+RBTs shoot 1-2 of our Bolt Throwers and a handfull of Darkshard.
The result: We just lost the ranged battle, and are forced to play recklessly and press on to catch up.

If he instead fires at the Sisters (deployed in a forest?), he will indeed kill the screen of 5 Dark Riders/Harpies and deplete the unit. But our entire ranged platform remains intact.
The result: We fire at his RBTs/Archers/Reavers leaving him depleted and on the loosing side regarding ranged battle, forcing him to play more recklessly.

If your playing a strong player. He wil ALWAYS (almost) focus fire on your counter-fire-base, because that is the right thing to do to win games.


Disclaimer:
Im not claiming that the Sisters of Slaughter are the end all be all of Dark Elf Units. Im simply saying that if you need the best static combat block or the best flaming hit squard. They are the best we have to offer. Then its up to you if you need those roles in your army.

[ferny]

Aside from their utility to remove ranks, flaming hitsquad/combat block etc, I find the discussion about shooting interesting. Here's my perspective as an outsider (High Elves).

In principle, I want to shoot everything in your army. Ideal match ups would be:
core archers into warlocks (why waste S4/AP on a ward save, or magic missiles, especially if they have MR)
magic missiles into shades (-1 to hit skirmishers hurts damage output, especially with so many things I need to shoot)
sisters and RBTs into dark riders - damn you and your 4+AS fast cav

Obviously I might not get the opportunity for those match ups, depending on deployment, movement, army composition etc. But those *have* to be my priority targets, because I need the chaff gone - especially as your chaff shoots so damn well (and I can't necessarily just charge it because with S&S and hatred I actually need to send in something reasonably solid to win, and with the option for feigned flight I might just chase it off a little and get out of position for my troubles).

Now I don't mind sitting back and trying to achieve these shooting goals because I don't really want to advance into you and these threats will be shooting and misdirecting me if I don't achieve this. But meanwhile I'll be under fire from up to 4xRBT and maybe some darkshards/corsairs...but I think I can soak this up with heavy cav/lion cloaks/pheonix(or guard) ward saves.

But all the while you get to advance your lightly armoured, very vulnerable to small arms fire, harder hitting than me in combat, elite troops up. Whether it's executioner/witch blocks with 1+AS BSB and S7 dreadlord, corsairs for mindrazor, chariots or indeed sisters - they're all relatively slow compared to the advance elements which need to be shot first, and they all hit hard, and they all die to bowfire...but there's only so much bowfire to go round.

And I don't think I have a strong ranged answer to high AS and warded peg characters - I have to just take my chances in combat, which potentially with your manoeuvrability, you get to choose.

I sympathise with the fear of getting shot of the board - T3 AS5 elves the world over fear it - and for high elves one manifestation of this is how rarely we see swordmasters fielded over PG or WL. But honestly, I think if you invest c.160 points for 10 flaming sisters, if you shield them appropriately I doubt I'd get a chance to shoot them.

I don't know what it'd be like with other armies (I pretty much exclusively play High Elves), but in principle I think dark elves have so many glass cannon threat units you've really nailed target saturation if you can just move up the board quick enough (and with RBTs, fast cav (characters) and pegs, the tools are certainly there). I dunno whether this rather rosy perception of dark elves is just because I seem to find them a tough match up, but I do reckon sisters could survive if given a chance.

That said, with the current popularity of elves in general and no doubt an increase in wood elves, this might become mooted - the mention of trueflight arrows might be pretty spot on.

Edit: My default list would be RazorPG:BotWD WL blocks, supported by MSU core cavalry +15 core archers, lord level caster as general and a BSB - support then varies between combinations of 5-man flaming Drangon princes, frosty, RBTs and/or sisters, scroll mage or minor experiments.

[Scyloc]

Thanks for your input Ferny!
I think you are spot on.

I have also read many of you excellent posts on Ulthuan. Thx for sharing.

[Dalamar]

Witch Elf Horde also munches through a gutstar.

[Red...]

Yeah, I have to say, the ogre bus is pretty much the ideal match up for the sisters. I'm not sure you can really use that as an example of how wonderful they are.

One element from this discussion which has been missing is that sisters only get the +1 to hit and +1 to wound bonus if at least one model in base contact with the unit has a higher WS or S. Given that sisters have a WS of 6 (which is a definite good thing for the most part...) you're not going to get many models in B2B contact that have WS7 or above (excluding lords and expensive heroes for elves, warriors of chaos, and a few others). You will get more S4 or above from a lot of armies, but against a lot of them you won't. So, for example, against a horde of 40 empire swordsmen, halbadiers, great swords, high elf spearmen, goblin spearmen, etc etc, you will be hitting on 3s and wounding on....4s, with no armour save modifier. Against a unit of dwarves or Orcs with S3 and T4, you're wounding on 5s and with the dwarves you are then then smacking up against that armour. That's far from great...

The challenge with 'your opponent won't shoot at the sisters' argument is that it basically concedes that they will die in droves to missile fire, but then assumes your opponent is too preoccupied or unaware of them to shoot them. If that's not the case (or even if we give credence to the idea that master strategists will ignore them, but it turns out your adversary is sufficiently unintelligent that he/she decides to target them), then they're toast. Their save is weaker than any other unit we have available (except for witches, who cost less and have frenzy to avoid risks of running away when shot in droves) and they cost the joint most amount of points per model for any of our rank and file infantry (tieing with blackguard, who have also seen a massive decrease in use due to their perceived high cost per model issues). In my experience, at least some opponents will shoot at smaller units of 5 or 10 infantry, because they know that if they can do sufficient casualties then they can neutralize the unit - either by making it flee, or by dilapidating it so much that it ceases to be a threat (e.g. 10 sisters might be able to do some nasty damage, but 2 or 3 sisters can't so much). There is often a sense when shooting into massed horde units that your shots are wasted ("oh no, now his 40 executioners only have 33 models left to decimate me with...hmmmm") whereas shooting at smaller units your shots are definitely not (losing 7 models from a unit of 10 sisters does basically neutralise them). If we're going with the argument that we already have so much chaff that shooting armies like high elves, empire, dwarves, and wood elves will be overwhelmed by choices of who to shoot, then we are assuming that we are running a heavily MSU army, which limits the use of sisters to only this kind of force (and which has a mixture of strengths and weaknesses, that don't belong to this discussion). For a lot of regular armies, they will have maybe 4 units of chaff (say 2 units of 5 dark riders and 2 units of shades), which a high elf force with 2 units of ellyrian reavers, a couple of units of bowmen, a unit of handmaidens, and repeater bolt throwers of their own, may very well be able to shoot the sisters with at least one shooting unit for at least one turn of the game. Then they are splat.

I'm not denying that sisters have possible utility, and am pleased if they get more air time. I just don't think for me they cut the mustard. That said, I am thinking about the possibilities of a fluffy all ladies army, led by Hellebron, some sorceresses, and death hags, with scores of witches, sisters, and harpies, and maybe a female beastie or two (although filling the model requirements would be a lot of $$$s!).

[Scyloc]

@Dalamar
Dalamar in my experience, and if you crunch the numbers, a witch elf Horde gets shattered by an Ogre Deathstar. (the prevelance of immune to poison characters hurts a lot)
CoB boosted WE horde can indeed go toe to goe with a deathstar. But a CoB boosted Sister unit wins big.
But dont take my word for it. Try it out your self.

And when we are talking Cauldron of Blood, there is always the possibility that the Ironblaster takes it out before the units reaches CC.

@Red
If you can ever call a souped up 1200+ pts Irongut Deathstar and "ideal target" for a 600 Pt unit, then yes i agree.

Red your purely focusing on their offensive capabilites. And your absolutely right, that many things in the Dark Elf army are more killy. If your looking for a unit to dish out as much damage as possible, you should look elsewhere.
What makes the sisters unique is not that they deal a reasonable amount of damage, but that they take very little damage back, while (hopefully) retaining their own rank bonus and denying the opponent the same.
And this leads to a SCR win, and usually they have more ranks than the opponent cancelling steadfast.

Ideal matchup or not. Sisters will still win big vs a Halberdier horde, Orcs etc. Again, the key is not their relatively low damage output, but that they take even less damage back, breaking them through SCR.
Im unsure how they fare against Dwarven infantry. Cancelling parry is pretty strong against dwarves, hmmm. Ill have to get back to you on that one.

But i think you touch upon something important.
As i explained in the battle report, they are very matchup dependent. If my opponent had managed to get my sister in combat with his mournfangs, they would have been reduced to an expensive roadblock. A good roadblock, but otherwise rendered ineffective. And thats stress on your army deployment and game plan.
Ideally you want units that can handle most things the enemy throws against it.

Regarding shooting:
I havnt experienced it as a problem. But yes, they are indeed vulnerable.
Here is a quick comparison of how many points you loose per hit from a S3 AP/S4 hit on several DE units.
Sisters are in the buttom, but generally speaking the difference in pts-loss per hit is not that high.


Regarding consistency:
From personal experience, the greatest asset we have is our extremely high consistency (rerolling most attacks, rerolling 1s to wound).
What does that mean?
It means that we are much less prone to bad beats, than many other races.
What happens when you whiff a combat roll?
You loose the combat and sometimes the game.
What happens to Dark Elves?
We pick up the dice again and reroll, more often than not saving our butts.

I have played a lot with Executioners and GW Heroes. Neither unit rerolls to hit. This means that the variance of results is muuuch higher than most of our other units.
As a result we have to put them in less dire combat situations, because we need at least 80%+ chance for them to win that combat.

Anecdotally; How many times have you tried whiffing a round of executioners attacks? Or GW heroes? Personally; i have had that happen many many times. But them into a combat they they should win easily, and after rolling 10 hits out of 30 on 3+, suddenly find them on the loosing side.

What does this have to do with sisters?
Due to their innate high SCR (which is automatic) and their rerolling (and +1) ability, they are very reliable. And thats very positive.
As you see in my battle report above, a lot goes wrong in the Sisters combat. But in the end the difference is only a single point of combat resolution.
Consistency is good. Sisters are probably the most consistant unit we have.

The weakness of Static Combat Blocks:
Sisters are hands down the best Static Combat Block we have.
But Static Combat Blocks have several disadvantages. I allready mentioned several of them in my first post.
Crown of Command being one of the most obvious.
So the real question remains: "In a general tournament setting, how usefull is a strong SCR block?" And i cant answer that right now.

Comp or no Comp:
Just stating the obvious.
If you mainly play "no comp" or "very light comp", Sisters of Slaughter are (probably) less interesting.
If you mainly paly "medium" or "hard" comp, its much more interesting to look at Sisters as they fly "under the radar", and other options are usually restricted heavily.
I am (not surprisingly) in the 2nd category, and I am primarily writing to that category.

On another note:
A bit congratulations to Sweden, the winners of ETC 2014!
Gratz you guys! You deserved it.

[Sangfroid]

I run 10 sisters with flaming banner, I use 15 RHB corsairs 2 ish inches in front of them as a screen for bs shooting so the five games I have used them for.

1) v High elves, this game I made so many mistakes, one of which was to flank charge a star dragon who had just munched my dreadlord, the mistake wasnt the charge I expected them to die, the mistake was not directing all my attacks at his general, my reasoning was I would get asf rerolls v the dragon, but even though I got 4 wounds with no ap he saved all but one, the combo of attacks, thundestomp and 11 breath attacks signalled the end of the brave girls this time. I was very stupid 16 attacks hitting and wounding on a 3 should have meant around 10 saves, I also falsely relied in hoping I'd get decent ward saves off.......

2) v empire, my 10 girls go up against 40 halberdiers, in horde buffed with speed of light (the halberdiers were) over 4 rounds of combat I kill 27 and though die to the girl, effectively make his main block ineffective and prime target for my corsairs (rhb) to finish off, he lost every turn and made every break test! Could have been even more heroic had he not as I would have pursued into his organ gun

3) v lizardmen, my opponent charges my rhb with a scar vet I flee, he redirects into the sisters, I challenge kill the scar vet with the handmaiden, then in combo with 3 dark riders front charge 20 skinks lose 4 to s&S kill them and overrun into a fleeing skirmish skinks (had charged them originally and redirected into the skinks, we had to end the battle early Turn 4 but I would have had at least a further rear charge into another cohort of skinks.

4) v he again, flank charge 6 silver helms hold these up for 2 turns (armour really hurts the girls sadly), then get flank charged by 20 Phoenix guard, hold these up for a further 3 combat rounds while I eventually get my DL in the rear of the silver helms to kill them (was busy killing some white lions and a frostie, with my blackguard). Slough they didn't make there points back, without them holding the two units I would have been in dire straights in the main combat. In the end they fled just before I could charge the Phoenix guard in the rear with come corsairs and the flank with the dreadlord, in any case they didn't flee the board so ended up not losing their points.

5) flank charges 40 plague monks and lvl 2 caster, with 5 cold ones and a master to the front, the sisters whipped out 2 ranks (10 models) first turn of combat on there own. Over a couple more rounds broke the monks then pursued into 40 clan rats (with the cold ones) took a flank charge from 10 night runners killed all these including the clan rats and from start to finish only lost 3 sisters and a cold one

Overall 10 screened by the corsairs seems to go largely unoticed by the enemy, though sadly their exploits are beginning to be noted by my gaming group, I'd like to field them in two groups of 10 I think as the investment to get a cauldron into them (can't have a shrine as this means no locks) will just encourage peeps to throw everything at them, while the small units can slip around causing mayhem. I have also considered 14 with a death hag or master in could work well 2x7 or even a a lvl 2 fire/beasts/life Mage with a ward save out on the edge.

2a each, High ws, ward save, cancel parries, no ranks for cr and best of all +1 to hit and wound rolls if any of the enemy has higher ws or strength make these girls a steal (I think) for 180/190 points (if you take banner of course)

As with all units they will have horrible days and get wiped off, but so far from my perspective have been well worth the investment (in fact the lizardmen and empire players faces were worth it :-)

[Scyloc]

Thx for sharing Sangfroid.

10 Flaming Sisters is definately an intersting unit, and probably a lot more usefull in an all corners list, than a static combat block.

[ferny]

The challenge with 'your opponent won't shoot at the sisters' argument is that it basically concedes that they will die in droves to missile fire, but then assumes your opponent is too preoccupied or unaware of them to shoot them. If that's not the case (or even if we give credence to the idea that master strategists will ignore them, but it turns out your adversary is sufficiently unintelligent that he/she decides to target them), then they're toast. Their save is weaker than any other unit we have available (except for witches, who cost less and have frenzy to avoid risks of running away when shot in droves) and they cost the joint most amount of points per model for any of our rank and file infantry (tieing with blackguard, who have also seen a massive decrease in use due to their perceived high cost per model issues). In my experience, at least some opponents will shoot at smaller units of 5 or 10 infantry, because they know that if they can do sufficient casualties then they can neutralize the unit - either by making it flee, or by dilapidating it so much that it ceases to be a threat (e.g. 10 sisters might be able to do some nasty damage, but 2 or 3 sisters can't so much). There is often a sense when shooting into massed horde units that your shots are wasted ("oh no, now his 40 executioners only have 33 models left to decimate me with...hmmmm") whereas shooting at smaller units your shots are definitely not (losing 7 models from a unit of 10 sisters does basically neutralise them). If we're going with the argument that we already have so much chaff that shooting armies like high elves, empire, dwarves, and wood elves will be overwhelmed by choices of who to shoot, then we are assuming that we are running a heavily MSU army, which limits the use of sisters to only this kind of force (and which has a mixture of strengths and weaknesses, that don't belong to this discussion). For a lot of regular armies, they will have maybe 4 units of chaff (say 2 units of 5 dark riders and 2 units of shades), which a high elf force with 2 units of ellyrian reavers, a couple of units of bowmen, a unit of handmaidens, and repeater bolt throwers of their own, may very well be able to shoot the sisters with at least one shooting unit for at least one turn of the game. Then they are splat.

For sure - if I get the chance them ladies aren't getting anywhere near combat. But targeting them isn't easy - certainly not early game. My reavers are probably hiding (or at least hiding behind heavier cavalry) from all your xbow shots. (Incidentally, my heavy cav is a bit anxious about the RBTs but would probably be used as threat projection against shades/fast cav). That leaves RBTs and/or sisters (possible handmaiden in a big unit), core archers and magic missiles depending on lore. Certainly plenty of shooting. And you're also right that the temptation is always there to decimate a small unit rather than to kill 'just' seven of a 40 man horde.

I don't know if we're actually arguing the same point here - I will kill them if I can! - I just don't reckon it's that easy to justify targeting them early, despite their clear susceptibility to missile fire of any kind.

I'm not denying that sisters have possible utility, and am pleased if they get more air time. I just don't think for me they cut the mustard. That said, I am thinking about the possibilities of a fluffy all ladies army, led by Hellebron, some sorceresses, and death hags, with scores of witches, sisters, and harpies, and maybe a female beastie or two (although filling the model requirements would be a lot of $$$s!).

I actually don't know how much I rate their utility - I don't think I've ever actually faced them! - so maybe they're good/bad/useable - I dunno. But despite struggling to even claim their a chainmail bikini armour save, I'd rate their chances of getting into combat vs a non-dedicated small arms army as at least fair. (I don't know if that justifies them, or if fair is sufficiently good to cut it, but it isn't as bad as you might think on paper...I think).

Thanks for your input Ferny!
I think you are spot on.

I have also read many of you excellent posts on Ulthuan. Thx for sharing.

Aww chucks - I'm not sure if we're allowed to be friends...I'm probably a spy (excellent range of emoticons btw)

[Calisson]

10 sisters might be able to do some nasty damage, but 2 or 3 sisters can't so much...
losing 7 models from a unit of 10 sisters does basically neutralise them

Sorry for my total lack of experience with them, but I had a different, theoretical view.
The mere 3 SoS remaining could reform in a conga line and combo-charge, aside with another unit which task would be to do the killing.
The single SoS in base contact suffices to deny the opponent unit's SCR and shield's 6++.
And good luck to kill them 3!

[Sangfroid]

I agree with you by the way they would make an excellent static combat block my only problem is that to include a cauldron makes them a really tasty target (circa 800pts) which could be avoided and shot down/magicked down reasonably easily. (I know this applies to all our units pretty much) the other option with a shrine means no warlocks but cuts the cost down to around 650. 21 or 26 sister with razor also just about fits the 450 unit cap I see in comps around so could work.

If you were to go that route I would consider a shrine, with a lvl 2 dark with tome to ensure shroud of darkness or lvl 4 life to go for regen and toughness ( also compliments well with rest of army) this pushes the cost up though but both options suddenly make the unit even more of a threat.

If you are really splashing out take a bsb with the war banner :-)

[T.D.]

Nice feedback, Sangfroid.

Impressive results considering we're talking about just 10 models (unless you count their screen as part of the effect!).

What I like about the RhB Corsairs -- as well as Darkshards and Shades -- is their ability to flee. Combined with the Sisters, that's two infantry units that complement each others function (shooting/close combat) yet both can flee, opening up more tactical effects than the likes of Witch Elves i.e. (i) double flee or (ii) auto-flee of screening unit, leading either to enemy failed charge or close combat with the Sisters ...which is exactly where they want to be!

(excellent range of emoticons btw)

We made that one especially for your kind

[Sangfroid]

Thanks TD in all cases the corsairs either fled or did something else,

With the dragon they moved to block a unit of Phoenix guard, against the empire I used dark riders instead of corsairs as the screen and the swiftness banner on the sisters, the lizardmen they fled the original charge, and the last HE battle it was the corsairs who were charged by the silver helms I held, lost combat and they fled (thru a building) so the silver helms chose to reform towards the rear of my black guard (24 strong, lost 13 to dwellers and still charged and killed 21 white lions , frostie and a BSB with a Dreadlords help) he just ignored the sisters as a non threat, so they got an easy flank charge on the knights.

Against the skaven I was experimenting with corsairs as a sorceress bunker so they were elsewhere :-)

The RHB screen I have mentioned before and I've tried 3 x 10 but now take 2 x 15 with FC, this latest connotation seems to feel right as they do as you say compliment the sisters (or blackguard) perfectly.

One of the best things about the sisters is then handmaiden because aside from having only one wound she is the equivalent to a master practically in stats, and a lot of masters are run with a 4++ so she has a pseudo magic item too. The scar vet getting killed in the challenge was in part two out of three failed saves (snake eyes oh dear :-) but still not many units can boast a Champ that is genuine threat.

[T.D.]

One of the best things about the sisters is then handmaiden because aside from having only one wound she is the equivalent to a master practically in stats, and a lot of masters are run with a 4++ so she has a pseudo magic item too. The scar vet getting killed in the challenge was in part two out of three failed saves (snake eyes oh dear :-) but still not many units can boast a Champ that is genuine threat.

That's a good way to look at the Handmaiden of Shards

Incidental comment: Another advantage of 10 Sisters in all comers lists is they are (yet another in the Dark Elf case) ideal recipient of Mindrazor. Small unthreatening unit ...but with WS6, I6, 2A; now boosted to S9, re-rolling to hit and 1s to wound, removing parry, 4++ if the enemy manages to live through all that and attack back ...and then they are testing with up to -3CR!

[Haagrum]

Sisters in a large block tend to attract a lot of fire. Smaller units are great support/flankers, particularly when a combined charge is possible. I think my gaming group wasn't sold on them until yesterday. They murder high-T low-AS enemies in a way that even Witches can't, and they can take a hell of a beating without losing combat. Sister darts can strip parries and ranks in multiple combats, which can turn a close fight into a slaughter (no pun intended).

Yesterday, I had 10 Sisters (with some help from redirectors and 5 Warlocks) absolutely shred a horde of Bestigors with GWs, before the Sisters went on to take out a half-strength Soulgrinder and a unit of Flesh Hounds to preserve the back field from the ambushing Khorne-dogs, and then holding and chopping down a massive block of Saurus Warriors (this last one in a doubles game, where a unit of Dryads was holding the other side of the combat block... against Gor-Rok).

Opportune match-ups? Certainly, but the Saurus were getting 4+ saves, and my Sisters failed every Fear test they made in that fight. After 2 rounds, they were out of opponents in base contact for only 2 lost in return. The Soulgrinder and Flesh Hounds didn't even get to attack.

Sisters will struggle against heavy shooting and heavy armour, but that's about it. Get into combat against all but heavy cavalry and they are very hard to shift. Even Phoenix Guard in comparable numbers will struggle to beat them.

[T.D.]

which can turn a close fight into a slaughter (no pun intended).

I would have taken pride in that one meself

[Sangfroid]

I posted a link to a YouTube battle report in the battle report section which has some sister action in it, for those enamoured by them it's well worth checking it out.

As for me, my 10 girls get charged by 24 phoenix guard last night (redirected into after my corsairs fled) first round I kill 2 he kills 2 but I stick, second round I counter charge the flank with my BG, the girls kill 6 PG! The BG help out a bit with two more I lose 1 sister and 2 bg in return, the sisters run down the rest of the PG, charge a bolt thrower, then 10 archers if the game had any turns left they may have even bagged themselves some white lions.

I am waiting for a further 10 to be delivered and had already decided after this next tourney (13/14 sept) I was going to try out 19 with a death hag or 2 teams of 10 paired with my 2 corsairs (having seen the YouTube report above I think the first option is worth a shot!)

[Shadowstalker18]

I just don't understand how people can bag on the sisters for dying so easily to shooting when everything in our entire army dies to shooting almost as easily. We are all well versed in screening our units with harpies or dark riders and we all understand the risks when we take BG or a horde of executioners. This is the exact same thing. The only difference is, is that if an opponent is running SoS against your executioner horde you are screwed if they get to you. Its the exact same concept if you reverse the shoe and if your execs get into combat then the opponent is screwed lol. Its a circular argument that can be made with any of our elite and rare choices except CoK and they are an entirely different beast to tackle.

Dan

[Red...]

Its a circular argument that can be made with any of our elite and rare choices except CoK

I think you forgot Cold One Chariots, Scourgerunner Chariots, Warlocks, Hydras and K-Beasts.

Moreover, does a 5+ save work better than a 6+ save? Well, yes, that's fairly self evident. So the argument that the risk for an executioner or blackguard model is the same as that of a sister is empirically inaccurate. Furthermore, sisters cost a whopping 3 points per model more than executioners, which means that you can get 5 executioners for every 4 sisters you buy, and indeed - to reverse the logic, for every 4 sisters you lose, you would have only lost that same points amount if you had lost 5 executioners to shooting. So each sister is more easily killed by enemy missile fire and hurts more when she dies. Blackguard cost the same as sisters - but that's why they struggle to get fielded in many armies these days (and they still have a 5+ not 6+ save!).

[T.D.]

"The Nuclear-friggin Holocaust Sisters of Slaughter...

...I don't have an answer to these chicks!

I've never seen a unit so INCREDIBLY BAD ASS"

- Lord Tremendous, Daemon Prince of Tzeentch

[Cold73]

Thanks TD.... could not have said it better myself. ;-)

Don't get me wrong....i agree with Red that any kind of AS is better then not having an armour save at all.
But personally I don't care to much for armour anyway.... for some reason...my CoK and CoC, which have on paper a 2+/3+ AS seem to die by the dozen by any kind of shooting....
Hmm....AS on paper.....maybe mine are wearing paper armour........ ;-) But with the number of ones i roll against S3 armour saves..........

For me the Sisters of Slaughter and our beloved Witches are the same... I don;t use a CoB...so my WE don't have a 5++.
My WE are often in the centre...while my SoS are often on a flank...right behind my vanguarded unit of Dark Riders.... and my Master on Pegasus.
My magic is always aimed reducing BS of shooting units or atleast cause casualties there.

So far very few people have even decided to shoot at my SoS....in their opinion... My Dark Riders...and Pegasus Master are more of a threat to their units

[Wrathbaby]

I may be a bit late to the party here, but sisters are also great against ironbreakers. Denying rank bonus, parry saves (ironbreakers get a 4+ parry on the turn they're charged, and a 5+ in subsequent turns) and gaining the +1 to hit and wound, meaning they hit on 2s and wound on 4s. Especially useful if you're playing watchtower and the tough little midgets have somehow claimed the tower.

[Detherius Zythaal]

I had relative success with a unit of 15 SoS with FC and flaming banner while using them along a block of 30 black guards and 30 Witch elves against a very hard skaven opponent.
I had a dreadlord on foot with S7 and a 1+ rerollable, originally deployed in the BG and a death hag with obsidian blade, rune of khaine and cry of war on cauldron deployed between my sisters and my BG.

I was outdeployed, there was an impassable building in the middle of my side of the board separating my witch elves from the rest of my army and they were pretty much out of game hunting down rat darts, but still destroying a doomwheel and a warp lightning canon. My unit of 15 sister was in front of the centre of his army and I did not like the odds of my sisters against an hellpit and most of the skaven army while my blackguard would probably have been held for a while by slaves.

So when I got first turn, my Dreadlord left the BG and joined the Sisters of Slaughter. The Death Hag on cauldron also joined the sisters making this a very solid character bus that was able to go through the centre with ease, killing an hellpit, a dart, a unit of 40 stormvermin with 2 chieftain and general and 50 slaves. But then I was between the 2 warplightning cannons and really bad things happened...

Still, I consider this a way of using them which has potential. I will continue using a similar list and will certainly try this out again to switch the balance of power in my army.

[T.D.]

A Death Hag with an illegal equip loadout?

[Searinox Nagharha]

like T.D. said, I'm afraid your Death Hag used an Illegal Loadout
you can only give her 1 of the Gifts of Khaine