Happy with Sisters

How to beat those cowardly High Elves?

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dms505
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Happy with Sisters

Post by dms505 »

I proxied some witches as sisters 3x6 this past weekend and they were friggin sweet. I played vs Ogres they were devastating to his smaller units. Using a screening unit of Dark Riders that soaked a couple of fireballs I was able to place them halfway across the field in a favorable position and once they got to combat they did an average of probably 6-7 wounds per turn and took 2-3 per turn against basic ogres. Using either the banner of flame or the razor banner could allow them for some other support, though it didn't come into play much in my game.

As previously mentioned another factor is that a lot of players still don't know what they can do. I think that will continue for quite a while do to the cost and lack of use.
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Re: Happy with Sisters

Post by T.D. »

Dis is the sort of feedback we need. Nice work 8)
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Re: Happy with Sisters

Post by Red... »

Helpful feedback, thanks. The problem with them as I see it is that any half decent shooting army can decimate them so easily and they are so expensive per model for no save unless in combat. They also add little that standard witches, who cost a lot less and can synergise with the cauldron, cannot already provide, while also being core.
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Re: Happy with Sisters

Post by Dalamar »

I think we (collectively as Dark Elves) need to get away from the "they have no save they will get shot to bits" mentality.

Dreadspears - 5+
Darkshards - 6+/5+ with shields
Bleakswords - 5+
Corsairs - 4+! (holy crap!)
Black Guard - 5+
Executioners - 5+
Shades - 6+ (if you have points to waste on light armor)
Witch Elves - nada
Sisters of Slaugher - 6+

I mean seriously? Barring corsairs, all our infantry has negligible armor. They are as expensive as black guard points wise, but they are perceived as a much lower threat. Hell, Executioners will get shot at first I'm sure.

What they do bring that Witch Elves don't is ward save in combat (sure Warlocks have that too) and ability to ignore enemy ranks (which can swing combats by as much as 3 full points). I doubt sisters will ever become a full large unit, but I see them doing an amazing job as a small flank protector.
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Re: Happy with Sisters

Post by Red... »

I don't think you can dismiss the utility of saves so easily. A 5+ save results in 33% fewer casualties than no save at all against S3, which is the strength of a lot of missile weapons. That means that for every 9 elves wounded, only 6 die. Those 3 do make a difference. You can also get lucky with a 5+ save and save considerably more than that 33%, but with no save at all that is never an option. 9 wounded always equals 9 dead, whereas with a 5+ save 9 wounded can sometimes mean only 3 or 4 dead, if you get lucky dice rolls (of course, it can still be 8 or 9 dead if you roll badly...) but at least there's a chance of survival.

Yes, if you only play against dwarfs or empire forces with handguns, then a 5+ armour save is useless (although a 5+ ward save is definitely not), but against a lot of armies with bows, that 5+ save is a godsend. Witches can have a 5+ ward save from the cauldron too, so the absence of a save that you indicate for them isn't fully representative (yes, other units can use the cauldron too, but at just a 6+ ward save, many players don't bother combining the two). Perhaps its because I have faced armies with quite a bit of bow shooting over my years of playing, but I do know that elves without saves against missiles and magic (and other non-combat attacks) can die very quickly indeed.

The other challenge with sisters is that they don't really fill a role that isn't already done by another unit, but you are paying shed loads of cash for them:

- Killing elite enemies? Executioners
- Killing hordes? Witch Elves
- Surviving through hails of arrows? Corsairs
- Providing bulk? Bleakswords
- Holding the line whatever the cost? Black Guard
- Crashing into the enemy with a medium sized front? Cold One Knights
- Crashing into the enemy with a small sized front? Cold One Chariots
Etc.

Witches bring a ward save in combat too, if they have a cauldron. I also think that, without the armour save, sisters don't really make for a reliable flank protector - a few stray shots from some enemy cavalry with missile weapons can very quickly depopulate their ranks, particularly if there are only a few to begin with. Again, I'd rather have a unit of corsairs with handbows or RxBs (if I don't want them to advance towards the enemy), a witch bomb or black guard bomb (if I do want them to get up in the enemy's face), or units of shades or dark riders if I want to avoid combat while being close to their forces.

I don't doubt that sisters have strengths, I just think that they cost too much for what they bring too the table, die too easily if targeted by enemy missile fire, and don't have enough uniqueness versus less expensive options.
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Re: Happy with Sisters

Post by Dalamar »

Witches with Cauldron (reasonable size) are 600+ points.

Sisters of Slaughter are effective at 160 points (musician is a must)

It's a big difference.

10 Witch Elves will do damage, but you will never expect them to last.

10 Sisters of Slaughter can put down hurt and stick around.
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Re: Happy with Sisters

Post by Cold73 »

Armour saves...and Dark Elves....
You know the combination of these 2 in the same sentence really made me smile.
I don't think I've ever passed a single armour save with my infantry models.... provided they even have saves left...most shooting armies have S4 shooting..and/or armour piercing shots.
They way I see it the only army with regular S3 shots is High Elves I think.

The lack of armour has really never bothered me too much...for me it is the point cost...and the other sweet things i can get with these points... Executioners for one are far better at destroying high AS units

But maybe you are right...and I will have to see if i can find some points to include a couple in my lists.
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Re: Happy with Sisters

Post by Killerk »

the again most opponent will think they are unless since no one uses them. Then their lack of save won't matter as they will be a low priority for them.

if they could only be field in smaller units the 10, I would include he in my list.
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Re: Happy with Sisters

Post by T.D. »

I don't see the point in either/or thinking myself. The strengths of our army are in the synergies, and while some choices may be generally less competitive than others that is not a reason for blacklisting.

Note that Wood Elves seem to be doing OK just now with a whole army virtually without armour saves!

Although Wardancers have generally been badly received, there are players getting good results with assassination darts. In their favour over our Wardancers, are the abilities to take units of five, to skirmish, to be stubborn in a forest and to get KB.

Their role is to (i) delay (ii) combination charge and (iii) assassinate, which fits in perfectly with the over-arching Wood Elf strategy. They die, but they do their job.

Used in a similar role, Sisters have the advantages of:
- removing ranks in every round, not just choice of one out of two.
- Trial of Blades versus monsters, elites and character bunkers.
- permanent 4+ ward save in h-t-h (even when removing ranks)
- an extra attack per model as standard

While delaying may not be a factor in most of our lists, combination charges are definitely an important part of our strategy, and Sisters excel in this role.

The recent Buckeye tournament win shows just what can be achieved competitively with Sisters of Slaughter, so their potential is definitely worth exploring.
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Re: Happy with Sisters

Post by Scyloc »

I must make a confession.

When i first read through the rules for Sisters of Slaughter in our new armybook, i was severely disappointed by them.
I felt they did not contribute much if anything Unique.
This was a conclusion mainly based on feelings and not rationale.

The last months i have been investing time in discovering the potential for this overlooked unit.

With are more rationale mind set i came to these finding:
One of the main arguments AGAINST sisters, is that they fill the same roles as witch elves, only worse and more costly. Lets examine that a bit:

10 flaming monsters/regeneration Hunters:
OFFENSE: It is true that 10 flaming sisters and 10 flaming witch elves are comparable in terms of damage (Witches do roughly +20% damage to things like Hellpits/Chimeras, but if there is a Cauldron of Blood within 6", the Sisters receive a larger benefit and actually end up outdamaging the Witch Elves). When facing things like trolls, the sisters and witches are very even damage-wise.
DEFENSE: Sisters have that 4++ save in close combat, which is a great help vs Stomps and TStomps. So they survive twice as good as Witch Elves. Bar against shooting.
COST: Witch Elves 11 ppm (core), Sisters 15 ppm (rare). Sisters cost roughly +30% more than Witch Elves (depending on Command Group size)
SPECIAL RULES: Witch Elves are frenzy, which is a big minus. Sisters are not, but they cancel enemy rank bonus, which in this case may be of value vs ex. trolls.

CONCLUSION: While 10 Sisters cost 30% more than Witch Elves. They are much more survivable in CC. And they do not suffer frem Frenzy. In essence this makes them the top choice for a 10 women flaming hit squad. Of course Sisters are bought from rare points and Witches from core points, so you would expect that much.


Another key arguments vs Sisters is that they die in droves to shooting attacks:
As Dalamar points out above. Sisters are indeed not very well protected vs shooting attacks. But neither is the rest of the Dark Elf Army.
But if you factor Price in as well. The Sisters will often be the most efficient way to get points with BS shooting.
Does this mean that Sisters are worthless? Absolutely not.

If your enemy is shooting at your sisters, he is not shooting at your Dark Riders, Darkshards, Bolt Throwers, Shades or whatever unit you have to counter his shooting. In short; if he is shooting your Sisters, while you are shooting his shooters. You will have an advantage in the game. In other Words, while the sisters might be the best place for you enemy to shoot if he is only looking at point ratios, its a bad place for him to shoot strategically, to win the game.
This means that while Sisters are expensive and just as easy to kill as most other DE infantry, that fact is less/not important if you field a competitive list, which obviously can deal with enemy BS-shooting.

CONCLUSION: While its true that Sisters provide a good target for enemy missile fire to collect points, its not that important, because he is doing you a favor if he is focusing on dealing with your Sisters rather than you own counter-fire-base.


Sisters offer several Unique qualities.
They are NOT frenzy! (As compared to Witch Elves)
They have a 4++ in CC (Important in preserving points, Static Combat Res)
They remove parry saves (Damage increase, that is often overlooked. Can be substantial vs Tzeentch Warriors or Dwarves)
They remove enemy rank bonus. (important in Static Combat Res)

Unique roles:
Best 10 women flaming regeneration hit squad. (See above)
Best Static Combat Block.

Best Static Combat Block:
10+ Sisters, War Banner & Bloodwrack Shrine.
(or simply just 20+ sisters without Shrine)

15 Sisters of Slaughter, FC, War Banner with a Bloodwrack Shrine, can take a charge from almost anything (even some deathstars) and still win on Combat Res.
Facing 12 Trolls/Crypt Horrors or even 8 Beasts of Nurgle. Sisters can take the charge and win on combat res.

In fact this static combat block can win against most things on combat resolution, and with several ranks break steadfast.

Some issues for the Static Combat Block and how to counter them:
Catching the enemy: Often the Static Combat Block will break the enemy unit. Now we need to Catch the enemy or he might rally and we havnt achieved much. So make sure to charge a fast character like a pegasus hero into the combat to maximize your chance to catch the enemy.
Crown of Command: One of the biggest reasons why Static Combat Res struggle in the current meta, is the easy access to Crown of Command. And while the Sisters might win most combats on SCR, they will not grind Down the opponent over time. So a wellplaced Crown can really render your game plan ineffective. How do you counter this? Death Magic is the best answer we have. Snipe the enemy Crown. Coincidently Doom&Darkness offer great synergies with the SCR-block.


All in all, the Sisters have several Unique roles to fill in the Dark Elf army. And are even best in class if your looking for 10 flaming regen Hunters or a solid SCR-block.
Are they a top competitive choice? Probably not, but they are absolutely playable.
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Re: Happy with Sisters

Post by dms505 »

From my 1 game so far I agree with almost everything each of you said. They can be shot but that's exactly why I made sure in my first post I mentioned my screening units. Other than Wood elves with the True Flight if you have that screening unit in between they either fire at the Riders/harpies/shades or shoot through them on most probably a 5 or 6 to hit. Second turn your usually close enough to charge something and being how they are in close combat you can charge pretty much anything.

You can't compare them to witch elves and then only give the witch elves the cauldron for the boost. Combine the Sisters with the cauldron and they then have a 6+/6++ vs shooting and a 4+ in combat. Really similar to the witches 5++. Not to mention the synergy of the rerolls vs high toughness models when combined with the cauldron, Always wounding on a 5+ with rerolls? Yes please!

With no cauldron and flaming attacks vs a 50mm frontage for say an Abom that's 13 attacks hitting on 2's with rerolls so assume 11-12 hits, wounding on 6-1=5's rerolling 1's = probable 4-6 wounds first round before it gets to attack back. I really feel like this is a unit worth taking and worth protecting with a screener if needed. A lot of the time it won't be needed because we have other units like executioners that people KNOW will shred them. When in reality, baring heavy armor, the sisters are like having another unit of executioners that aren't as squishy in combat. the difference is that the sisters can be great in combat vs ANYTHING due to the combination of abilities.

Witch's die to shooting in the same way but their vulnerability in combat is huge buses and hoards that can wear them down. Sisters 6+/4++ can allow them to hold out quite a bit longer with a smaller unit WHILE negating the rank bonus, even still WITH the enemy not giving them the bonus to hit and wound which they don't really need against those troops anyway hitting on 3's and wounding on 4's.

Also don't ignore options that characters can give them like the death hag gifts or special character abilities (if you use them).

I mean seriously if you play Dark Elves and don't know how to use chaff and screening units then you're doing it wrong. It's what we've been doing with most of our other units since . . . always.


Used in a similar role, Sisters have the advantages of:
- removing ranks in every round, not just choice of one out of two. (I wasn't able to get a good use of this due to them fighting smaller Ogre units.)
- Trial of Blades versus monsters, elites and character bunkers. (This came in super handy and probably single handedly won me most combats vs Ogres WS3/S4/T4)
- permanent 4+ ward save in h-t-h (even when removing ranks) (Just awesome, by the end of the battle they were into Ironguts w/ S6 so the 4+ worked well)
- an extra attack per model as standard (I think they added this specifically to make sure they were similar to witches but better)
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Re: Happy with Sisters

Post by T.D. »

Scyloc wrote:Best Static Combat Block:
10+ Sisters, War Banner & Bloodwrack Shrine.
(or simply just 20+ sisters without Shrine)


Excellent round up, Scyloc.

Another advantage of the Sisters as a static combat block is the synergy with the rest of our army.

For 465 points you get an excellent anvil, with ~2000 points to spend on hammers in an average game. And what do Dark Elves have a lot of? Excellent hammers; be it Witch Elves from core, Executioners, Chariots, Cold One Knights, Hydra and Kharibdyss from special, as well as Pegasus, Steed, Cold One and Monster-riders from Characters.

To go back to the comparison with Wood Elf Wardancers, the Sisters have other abilities and a lot of synergies our green leafed friends do not:

- Can flee
- Can take standards
- Can take a magic standard of up to 50 points inc War, Razor, Swiftness, Flaming.
- Can be combined with the optional Frenzy of Witchbrew, or Ld penalty of Cry of War and up to 50 points of armour/toughness breaking magic items and boosted combat with a Death Hag.
- Can be combined with stealth 50 points of magic items/combat boost through Assassins, or armoured 50 points of magic items/combat boost through Masters.
- Synergies with Bloodwrack Shrine, Cauldron of Blood and Kharibdyss Ld re-roll.
- Synergy with Shades; Shades march forward and screen, Sisters advance behind to look for favourable engagements. Ditto Harpies.
- Uses as Mage Bunker; FC, Elite close combat ability, Ward Save, Combat Resolution effects inc. optional War Banner.
- Synergy with Pegasus Riders (and other fast elements); adding Pegasus riders to the unit, or performing combi-charges, or the Pegasus riders sweeping up broken foes.
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Re: Happy with Sisters

Post by T.D. »

dms505 wrote:From my 1 game so far I agree with almost everything each of you said. They can be shot but that's exactly why I made sure in my first post I mentioned my screening units. Other than Wood elves with the True Flight if you have that screening unit in between they either fire at the Riders/harpies/shades or shoot through them on most probably a 5 or 6 to hit. Second turn your usually close enough to charge something and being how they are in close combat you can charge pretty much anything.

With no cauldron and flaming attacks vs a 50mm frontage for say an Abom that's 13 attacks hitting on 2's with rerolls so assume 11-12 hits, wounding on 6-1=5's rerolling 1's = probable 4-6 wounds first round before it gets to attack back. I really feel like this is a unit worth taking and worth protecting with a screener if needed. A lot of the time it won't be needed because we have other units like executioners that people KNOW will shred them. When in reality, baring heavy armor, the sisters are like having another unit of executioners that aren't as squishy in combat. the difference is that the sisters can be great in combat vs ANYTHING due to the combination of abilities.


Lot of really good points.

(Btw I was writing my earlier post at the same time as you were posting this)

Please continue to experiment and feedback :)
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Re: Happy with Sisters

Post by dms505 »

Also since people don't play them much we might not be thinking of how they would do with the magic buffs that we sometimes take. Imagine . . .

Dark - Honestly the LEAST useful lore to the Sisters due to the debuffs taking away Trial bonuses, other than Chillwind against shooting, Shroud combined with negating rank bonuses = sweet.
Life magic - Just as nasty as BG when bringing them back with Regrowth, or Flesh's T5-7/6+/4++ for survivability.
Shadow - Lowering toughness 1-3 could allow them to wound on 2-3's with rerolls, mindrazor = still cool but not needed here.
Death - Same as shadow but Soulblight lowering S AND T can sometime be less optimal due to Trial, Doom and Darkness combined with removing rank bonus could be devastating.
Light - Net and Pha's can stop shooting against them. Overall still not the bets lore for us though.
Metal - Plague of Rust, help make knights and monsterous cav manageable with even 1 casting, Enchanted Blades = Hiit on 2-3s = Hellz yea. Robe = 4+/4++ Hellz yea again.
Beasts - Nothing much here to help Sisters unless you can Wildform them fighting a unit with a character with 7+WS or 5+ S. Chaos, Ogres, Lizards, Vamps or Monsters with 5+ S.
Fire - Flaming Sword gives them always wounding on 4+ rerolling 1's, and flaming attacks, Firecloak and other spells are as useful as with any other unit/enemy.
Heavens - Iceshard and Curse reduce shooting vulnerability. Comet could force shooting unit's move. Harmonic Fairly useless do to racial bonuses. Other spells just Damage.

Overall I think metal is one of the best combos with sisters having the ability to give them to hit with almost all attacks and 4+ AS while helping to nagte armor saves with debuffs which is their only real problem in HtH.
Last edited by dms505 on Wed Aug 06, 2014 1:57 pm, edited 2 times in total.
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Re: Happy with Sisters

Post by dms505 »

- Synergy with Shades; Shades march forward and screen, Sisters advance behind to look for favourable engagements. Ditto Harpies.


- My opponent actually questioned me about why I placed my shades 13 inches from his line in the middle of the board. I just said "Yea, I did."

They ended up combined with my dark riders taking 3 fireballs and some shooting which could have easily gone into my sisters and they harried a couple of units on my flank so that I only got into combat with my sisters when I wanted to. They worked in perfect combination with those two units to hold that entire half of the board then swing around to help with the Irongut hoard 5th turn and won me the game after the IG hoard took out 45 spearmen.

Yes I used a hoard of spearmen with Cauldron and they outfought 16 Ironguts with Tyrant and Slaughtermaster for 2 turns. My opponent was surprised to say the least. I wish I would have made a batrep of the battle.
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Re: Happy with Sisters

Post by Killerk »

well I need to try them, as they could work in my msu list, but the main problem I have with them is that not many people field blocks of infantry. Hence limiting their usefulness. How would you rate their usages game to game.
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Re: Happy with Sisters

Post by dms505 »

That is a very odd meta you have there if no one uses blocks of troops. Must be less tournament players. In most tournaments you needs blocks to hold onto objectives and such. I would absolutely use them in a small MSU style x10 unit. Toss the flaming banner in and you now have a reliable monster killer for 175-185 points. About the same cost or cheaper than most monsters which can seriously ruin an MSU list.

Now that I think about it it's kind of odd that you would choose an MSU list if most of your opponents don't field large blocks. MSU lists are built for redirecting and avoiding large blocks until they wear them down to better size. If your both playing MSU lists then the point of using an MSU list is negatedh. Not that it wouldn't still be a fun game, and that our DE troops would excel at this type of fight, but it's just a bit counter intuitive. But by all means play the type of army you like. It's more fun usually even if you lose. Unless you lose like 10 times in a row lol.
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Re: Happy with Sisters

Post by Olliewood »

I am going to have to give them a try - I feel the rank negating can push a leadership bomb style list over the top. I will just have to find the points. If 9th ed ever comes I would love to see steadfast be negated if a unit loses it ranks bonus for any reason - if that were to happen SOS will be an auto include. Just wishful thinking....
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Re: Happy with Sisters

Post by T.D. »

Just to play Sisters' Advocate:

Red... wrote:- Killing elite enemies? Executioners If the enemy elite has a ward save, high strength, greater than I5: Sisters
- Killing hordes? Witch Elves Killing hordes quicker? Add: Sisters. Holding up hordes or combo-breaking hordes: Sisters
- Surviving through hails of arrows? Corsairs I'll give you that :mrgreen:
- Providing bulk? Bleakswords See Scyloc's post
- Holding the line whatever the cost? Black Guard If that cost includes impact hits, T.Stomp or rank bonuses: Sisters
- Crashing into the enemy with a medium sized front? Cold One Knights Receiving a charge from such a unit: Sisters
- Crashing into the enemy with a small sized front? Cold One Chariots If that enemy happens to be a Monster: Sisters
Etc. Etc


And by the way my point is not either/or: Sisters combine well with all of these other Dark Elf choices, with the above additional advantages.

I'm not saying that Sisters will necessarily outperform those other units. Just that we should not write them off so completely.
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Re: Happy with Sisters

Post by T.D. »

dms505 wrote:That is a very odd meta you have there if no one uses blocks of troops.


KillerK plays at the top level of the game so I'm sure he knows what he's talking about. A lot of optimised lists these days are very mobile i.e. Chariot based WoC, Wood Elves, Dark Elf Flight of Pegs, HE Cav buses, Brettonian Cav buses, etc.

Incidental comment: Probably the biggest downside for Sisters these days is the rise of Trueflight spam :cry:
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Re: Happy with Sisters

Post by Red... »

Lol. There's a funny trend on D.Net to always conjure up ways that poor units are good - it shows great critical thinking and enthusiasm, but sometimes the whole 'no unit is a bad unit' mentality can get stretched a little too far. But if the thread leads to a dramatic increase in the use of sisters, that can only be a good thing. I'm still not convinced, and am happy with how my list works, so I'll keep an eye out for the experiences of others and consider changing my mind at a later date.

If your enemy is shooting at your sisters, he is not shooting at your Dark Riders, Darkshards, Bolt Throwers, Shades or whatever unit you have to counter his shooting. In short; if he is shooting your Sisters, while you are shooting his shooters. You will have an advantage in the game. In other Words, while the sisters might be the best place for you enemy to shoot if he is only looking at point ratios, its a bad place for him to shoot strategically, to win the game.
This means that while Sisters are expensive and just as easy to kill as most other DE infantry, that fact is less/not important if you field a competitive list, which obviously can deal with enemy BS-shooting.


This argument is a little specious. You can apply it to pretty much any unit in any army list and always come out sounding sage. You can flip it on its head here - you could say that if the enemy is shooting at your dark riders, darkshards, bolt throwers, shades, or whatever unit then he/she is not shooting at your sisters. As a rule, when your opponent is targeting one thing, he is not targeting another one. He/she will always have choices - you can't simply throw in 'well, if he shoots at unit A then he isn't shooting at unit B or vice-versa' as an argument, because its ultimately fairly meaningless.

Bottom line for me is that they cost a ton for a unit that has no save against magic attacks, missiles, or artillery, with S3, hand weapons, and no poison. Are they even ITP or frenzied? I forget and my book isn't with me. The 4+ ward in combat, ability to ignore ranks and the 6+ ward from hand weapons and shields, and +1 to hit and wound versus superior foes are nice, but don't justify the high price tag and myriad of limitations that I just mentioned. No amount of head scratching and creative thinking is going to make them into more than a novelty unit that's not worth that much head scratching and creative thinking, imo anyway. Others are welcome to disagree ;)
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dms505
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Re: Happy with Sisters

Post by dms505 »

Red I think that what people were saying is that the same issues you have with them are the same issues we have as Dark elf players in general. They are no worse at being killed from shooting than witches and are actually slightly better with at least a shield. Is the shield worth 4 points? No, but it's worth 1 point. The other 2 special rules are absolutely worth the other 3 points, especially combined with ASF and MP. Also your other argument that they don't have poison really doesn't go against them because it's just two different kinds of unit. Witches are hammers, Sisters are anvils. You shouldn't expect them to do the same thing as witches or they wouldn't be in the army. A lot of it just has to do with what your up against just like everything else.

I do agree however that the target saturation method is just not a great plan unless the troops are super super cheap. Screening and redirecting however are very good options.

But there are always going to be favorite units that people have. I love witches and I have 50+ of them and I will continue to use them but I don't use sisters IN PLACE of them. I would use sisters to support them.
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Archamedius
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Re: Happy with Sisters

Post by Archamedius »

dms505 wrote:Red I think that what people were saying is that the same issues you have with them are the same issues we have as Dark elf players in general. They are no worse at being killed from shooting than witches and are actually slightly better with at least a shield. Is the shield worth 4 points? No, but it's worth 1 point. The other 2 special rules are absolutely worth the other 3 points, especially combined with ASF and MP. Also your other argument that they don't have poison really doesn't go against them because it's just two different kinds of unit. Witches are hammers, Sisters are anvils. You shouldn't expect them to do the same thing as witches or they wouldn't be in the army. A lot of it just has to do with what your up against just like everything else.

I do agree however that the target saturation method is just not a great plan unless the troops are super super cheap. Screening and redirecting however are very good options.

But there are always going to be favorite units that people have. I love witches and I have 50+ of them and I will continue to use them but I don't use sisters IN PLACE of them. I would use sisters to support them.


I think a point being missed here is actually somewhat important. They do have shields. That does give them a save vs. str 3 shooting. So despite what most people say, they do actually have an armor save. Its shitty, but they do have one. And its only 1 worse than the save of executioners or black guard. Heck, in a lot of ways, the argument could be made that sisters (for the same cost) are as good if not better than black guard. Black Guard might be able to do a bit more damage against rank and file thanks to -1 AS from Str 4, but Sisters at WS 6 hit more often, would just as much (thanks to Trial of Blades) and can negate up to 3 CR from ranks. In a close fight, that can swing it your way. Plus sisters are tremendously more survivable thanks to their 4+ ward. You just have to be creative in covering for them to get them into combat.
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Xuza
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Re: Happy with Sisters

Post by Xuza »

When the book came out I bought 2 boxes of sisters and painted up 15 for a tournament, idea was 15 + mus&razor standard.
The main reason behind this was that the tournament was using swedish comp and Sisters comp next to nothing for thier points since they're viewed as not worth it.

Anyway, I didn't expect them to do wonders in the tournament, but maybe they might catch some people by suprise..
This is quite some time ago but as I remeber thier kill count was something like this.

Game 1: 30 Squigs + 10 handlers
Game 3: 20 Saurus, and almost 23 templeguard + slaan (had like 3-5 TG + slaan left when I got flanked by a Carno)..
Game 4: WoC hellstrider buss, like 9 hellstriders + 3 WoC lord/heroes on steed of slaanesh, got 2 of the chars and buss and survived with sisters, didn't catch the lord on the prusuit. :(

I know they killed more in support with other units in those games aswell but can't remeber exactly what..

In conclusion, I love sisters for the wardsave and the hurt they put out against the right opponent, but nowdays I don't expect them to do anything in my gaming group since everyone knows that they can be hell to kill if they get into CC in large enough numbers..
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Scyloc
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Re: Happy with Sisters

Post by Scyloc »

Just played a tournament game against a solid ogre player with a unit of 25 Sisters, FC, Warbanner + Master w Sword of Antiheros and Potion of Strength to demonstrate their potential.

He fields a pretty std ETC list of 2x4 Mournfangs + Bus (9 Ironguts w Lv4 Slaugthermaster Beasts, 4++, Sword of Antiheroes, BSB 4++, 2x Butchers lv1 Beasts & Maw) + 2x10 gnoblars, 3x Cats, 6 Ogres, 1 Ironblaster.

My list was:
Lv4 on foot Death, Ring of Hotek, Dispel Scroll
Dreadlord on Pegasus, Lance, Cloak of Twillight, Dawnstone
BSB on Pegasus, Lance, Charmed Shield, Talisman of Preservation
Master on foot, Sword of Antiheroes, Potion of Strength

3x5 Dark Riders (1 with Crossbows&mu)
13 Darkshards, mu, std, gleaming pennant (w Lv4)
14 Darkshards, mu

4x RBTs

5 Warlocks
25 Sisters of Slaughter, FC, Warbanner (w Master w Sword of Antiheroes)

Very short battlereport:
He deployes Irongut deathstar in the middle with 4 Mournfangs on each flank. Gnoblars and cats spread around in cover.
I deploy 4 RBTs centrally on hill, 2x fast cavalry units on each far flank across from each of his Mournfang units. My 2x Darkshard units + Pegasus heroes facing off against his left unit of mournfangs.
Sisters deploy centrally across from his Irongut Deathstar.
I get first turn. My Pegasus heroes + warlocks go for his left 4 Mournfangs. 1 Fast cavarly unit moves 1" in front of mournfangs. heroes move up to charge turn 2.
In the center the Sisters hold their ground. While the 2 right fast cavalry move up to block his right mournfangs, which also blocks for his 6 ogres behind them.

My Pegasus Heroes take out his left Mournfangs, his right Mournfangs are delayed all game (reaches 1 RBT in his turn 6). My BSB dies to a boosted Amber Spear.
My shooting removes his Ironblaster, cats and some gnoblars.

Big showdown:
Ogre Deathstar vs Sisters.

He doesnt fear them. I end up getting a flank charge against him. He has 12 ogres in 3x4 formation (shot one). His flank rank consists off Ironguts Champion, BSB with 4++, Slaughtermaster Antiheroes 4++, and Butcher.
He has Wildform on his unit. I fail to get Soulblight, but get Doom&Darkness off on him (He doesnt expect to loose)
I fail fear check, so WS1.
I put 6 wounds total on him from 14 attacks from Sisters (hitting 4+ RR, wound 5+) + 7 S8 attacks from Hero (hitting 5+ RR)
He puts 8 wounds on my including 2 wounds on my champ (in challenge) and 2 wounds on my master (dead). Slightly bad ward save rolling from my part.

He has 2 extra wounds, Std, BSB (no ranks)
I have Std, charge, flank, 3 ranks

I win by 2. Have more ranks than him, and with Doom & Darkness he rolls on 5+ RR. Fails and is run down.

I rolled slightly supbar. Failing fear check, and not getting soulblight off. Getting flank charge however was great. (But even if he charges the result is pretty much the same. Sisters win by a couple)

How many other 600 pt units do we have that can just route an ogre deathstar in straight out combat?
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