Tactics for positioning units

How to beat those cowardly High Elves?

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Bobba Looba
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Tactics for positioning units

Post by Bobba Looba »

Are there any tactics to improve the placement or match-ups of units?

I'm playing a battle against Bretonnians soon in Warhammer Renaissance (a homebrew ruleset mixture of 5th and 8th edition). If I would be able to match a unit of executioners against his knights, it may very well be favorable, since the executioners have higher WS and high strength. However, since they are not too mobile compared to the knights and have always strike last, they will probably end up getting charged and obliterated (they don't have asf in this version).

Is there a way to place them/ move them/ combine them with other troops to improve their viablility ? I've read about rank and flank, but how do you make sure the flanking unit is not charged first?
(Also, in this edition the bret"s lance formation has no flank, so that doesnt help).

Another way I thought of fixing the problem is by making the unit large enough and making it unbreakable. But this comes at a heavy price in points, of course.

Do you have any advice?
Vulcan
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Re: Tactics for positioning units

Post by Vulcan »

Depends. Do charging units still get to strike first like they did in early editions, or are they strictly in initiative order like 8th? This makes a big difference as to how you want to handle Knights.
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Bobba Looba
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Re: Tactics for positioning units

Post by Bobba Looba »

It's:
Always Strike First -> Charging units -> Initiative order -> Always Strike Last

The executioners have always strike last.

After thinking about it more, I had the idea to put them in a narrow unit (4 models wide) positioned a little to the back. Then I put two anvil units of spearmen on the front line a leave just enough space for the Executioners to pass through, but not enough for the knights to pass in between. This way, the knights can't charge the executioners and will (hopefully) charge one of the anvil units. The executioners can then charge the knights in the next turn. Even though they won't charge in the flank and they will always strike last, at least the knights will not benefit from the +2S on the charge and they don't engage with their full front. Will that work?

My other tactic is using two mobile units of Dark Riders to circle around the battlefield, take out any archers along the way and attack the knights from the rear. Ideally they will strike at the same time as my executioners.
Vulcan
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Re: Tactics for positioning units

Post by Vulcan »

So if the executioners get the charge, they strike before initiative then?

Then that should work. A decent DE anvil should hold a single bretonnian charge just fine, especially if some joker issues them rubber lances again.

The fun part will be if he brings several lances and does a combo charge on something. I'd certainly be looking to charge that anvil with everything I could. However, with executioners flanking I'd probably go after them instead, intending to clear their fighting line out so they couldn't attack back...

Another question that matters. Are casualties handled like 8e (taken from the back so models in front can attack) or like previous editions (casualties are taken from the front so they CANNOT attack)?
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Bobba Looba
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Re: Tactics for positioning units

Post by Bobba Looba »

No, rhe Executioners have Always Strike Last so even when charging, will strike after the knights. However, they have WS5, S4(+2)/T3 and 5+AS over the knights WS4, S3/T3 and 2+AS.

The advantage mainly lies in his knights not having the +2S on the charge, so the executioners keep their Armour Save. But I'm not sure if it will be enough.

The rules we're playing does have the step-up rule.

In addition, I plan on giving the champion in the anvil a magic weapon which reduces the attack of all models in base contact by 1, reducing the amount of knights which can attack from 7 to 4. That should bring a frown on his face.
Vulcan
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Re: Tactics for positioning units

Post by Vulcan »

Okay, 'step up ' does give the executioners a chance in big enough units.

Realistically, you're not going to get the charge in against a competent Bret player. Just isn't going to happen. People who play Bretonnians are generally either complete newbs (and those are very rare now that Bretnnia is out of print), or very very experienced and therefore very very good.

Your best chance is to set it up in deployment. Use your chaff units to draw deployment out and force him to drop his knights before your big units drop, and then slap 30-40- maybe even 50 Executioners down in front of his knights. From there the Executioners just march straight in and accept they're likely to get charged, and use your chaff to force-feed the Executioners to the knights.

I mean, sure, you can set it up so the Knights have the choice of charging the chaff and then get flanked by the Executioners, but don't expect the Bretonnians to take that choice.

Does Tullaris still grant frenzy? If he does it's worth adding him in, 2 attacks are better than 1. Just accept challenges with the champion. Heck, it might be worth denying the challenge to get Tullaris sent to the back where he'll be safe so you can direct extra attacks on the character.

While the Bret is likely to win the Knight/Executioner at equal numbers in the charge, it'll cost him dearly unless he wipes out the Exes on the charge. So he'll probably want to avoid the Executioners and go after literally anything else he could. You might be able to take advantage of this.
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Bobba Looba
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Re: Tactics for positioning units

Post by Bobba Looba »

That's a great elaborate answer, thanks!

My opponent is a seasoned High Elves player and is trying out a new bretonnia army he recently picked up. This may give me some advantage. However, I'm still going for the big unit of executioners.

I only have 10 models painted (somewhat of a beginner myself), but I have 5 more laying around unpainted and a couple of Black Guard models. I'll see what I can do to beef up the unit as much as I can.

We dont have a date for the battle yet, but I'll give an update on how it went.

thanks again
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Bobba Looba
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Re: Tactics for positioning units

Post by Bobba Looba »

I had my battle today and... I lost. :(
However, the strategies in this post were succesful and were of great help.

I managed to lure him into charging my warriors by placing the executioners more to the back and leaving no room for his knights to reach them . The warriors held up the charge and I was able to countercharge with the executioners. Fortunately, he concentrated all his attacks on the warriors. Maybe he did not realise the potential of the executioners or he wanted to annihilate the warriors so he could run them over and move away from the exectioners. Despite this, the warriors still held up and I ended up destroying the knights with the executioners.

Good call, so thanks for the advice!

I'll post a small battle report in the right spot on the forum.
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