2250 SCGT Comp - Balanced Army???

[The warchief]

If any one has seen any of my previous army lists you will know that I’m preparing for a 2250 UK tournament using SCGT comp later on this year. I’ve been out of competitive Warhammer for a while and therefore I’m giving myself plenty of time to practice and hone my list (as well as get it painted!).

Previously I went with scroll caddy and Ring of Hotek but in a few trial games it wasn’t enough magic defence (lots of bound spells, VC single dice raising, 2 dice casting etc) and I missed not competing offensively. The list below has nearly maxed out on shooting and magic plus I have augmented this with elite infantry backed by the BSB and CoB. It feels a little light on infantry though, I would have liked to squeeze in a 20+ spear unit but can’t find the points. I’m also interested to know what people think of the Level 1 on Pegasus as a mobile shooter and caster? I like Lifetaker but it means you have to be out in the open more often. However I feel that if I lost the model in a game it’s not too big a loss of points. Lore of Fire with Flaming Sword of Rhuin might also make her an option for combat hunting war machines and flanks? My other option is to drop her to foot, upgrade to Level 2 and take Seal of Ghorond and a 2nd dispel scroll to max out the army’s magic offence and defence.

So in summary, the new list has nearly maxed magic, nearly maxed shooting, decent combat ability and a Cauldron - Let me know what you think!

Supreme Sorceress (Level 4)
Dark Steed
Focus Familiar, Dispel Scroll
338

Sorceress (Level 1)
Pegasus
Lifetaker, Tome of Furion
195

Master BSB
Standard of Hag Graef
Heavy armour, SDC, Great Weapon
152

Death Hag
Cauldron of Blood
200

2 x 5 Dark Riders
Musician, RXB
234

2 x 5 Harpies
110

10 Repeater Crossbowmen
100

14 Executioners
Ch, St, Warbanner
217

13 Black Guard
Ch, St, Banner of Murder
247

5 Shades
80

2 Reaper Bolt Throwers
200

1 Hydra
175

Total – 2248

Comp restrictions:
PD – 8 of 9 max (7 + 1 for 2nd caster)
DD – 6 of 8 max (5 + 1 for dispel scroll)
Shots – 59 of 60 max
Flyers – 3 of 3 max
Terror – 2 of 2 max
War Machines – 3 of 4 max

[Ozur]

The lifetaker is nice, but 200 points almost soley for the Lifetaker seems too much. I'd rather swap the Lifetaker and Pegasus to the Supreme sorceress.

She can make more out of the flying mount and still shoot around corners without exposing herself too much, while using the Focus Familiar to get LOS to the rest of the enemy army.

I'd also upgrade the sorceress to L2. Extra spell and extra power dice for 35 points is a bargain when you're going magic heavy.

[Druchii77]

I agree with Ozur. Give your Supreme Sorceress the peg and lifetaker. That will all fit and she can still have the focus familiar and the scroll. If you really want the additional caster, make her a lvl. 2.

Also, what's the point of giving the BSB the standard of hag graef? Is it simply because you want the BG to have both armor piercing and strike first? They are the only unit in the army that he can join that will really benefit from his ASF. The executioners can't be joined by him. Just a thought. I would personally drop ASF from him and give it to the black guard and kit him out to hack stuff up.

[Drek]

I think those BG and execs are too small. They're each a unit of skinks away from being rendered useless. You may not like my suggestion, but I'd lose the RXB's on the DR and bump those up a bit. You might be one of those who loves RXB's on DR, but I am not. Mine are always marching, fleeing or dying.

Honestly, what I think is crippling you is the COB. You're going for a balanced list, but the COB is a huge point sink for units that aren't really the focus of your army. Your army is about balance. The COB makes it unbalanced, but not in a good way.

[Dark apostle197]

(I believe) the comp system docks points for BG having SoHG, but not if the BSB does.

[The warchief]

Dark Apostle is correct, under the comp the ASF banner takes up a rare slot unless on a BSB. I actually prefer it this way because it allows the BG to take the AP banner and I can get 6 str 6 AP strike first attacks as well as the units 10 str 4 AP strike first attacks (without any blessing!)

I'm actually thinking that Pegasus and Lifetaker are a waste of points. I will try to rework that to upgrade to level 2, probably on foot with the seal of ghrond to max out the dispel dice allowed, and drop the level 4 on to a steed with Focus Familiar and scrolls.

I'm not sure I agree with you Drek about the CoB being a waste in this army. At the moment under the comp system I have maxed out on shooting and magic which only leaves me with filling out the rest of the army with support units OR combat units. By using 2 elite combat units I think they will beome the main focus and the Cauldron only goes towards helping that. I've only played with it a few times, but it hasn't failed to help yet, in fact the 5+ ward has probably saved me a few times! However I do agree that the numbers are on the small side. I don't think I can boost the numbers of BG or Execs but I do still want to try and get a unit of warriors in to boost the overall numbers in the list and add another combat unit....

I'll have a look at the list later and see if I can tweek it. Will re post as soon as...

[Marauder mitch2]

Nice list mate and i think it is nice and balanced for the comp. Put the level 4 on a peg and level 2 for the wizard on foot.

A unit of spears would be good and i have the RXBmen have come up struggling for me. As they are too static.

I would drop the RXBmen and the warbanner and get 20 naked spears, with a champion.

[Drek]

I'm not sure I agree with you Drek about the CoB being a waste in this army. At the moment under the comp system I have maxed out on shooting and magic which only leaves me with filling out the rest of the army with support units OR combat units.

That clarifies, thanks. My issue is not that the COB is a waste. Rather that it seems like you are using it to benefit units that are too small. If you can find a way to bump the size of the Execs and BG, I'd say it's a solid list.

[Kheel]

nice list, has alot of similarities to what I like to field.

Your question about the lifetaker on sorceress - I like to field one of two different peg sorcs, both with Lifetaker.
If I go for a lord, I take her as level 4, and she being the only spellcaster. I give her Lifetaker, Black Dragon Egg, Tome of Furion and Dispel Scroll.
She is out there in the open casting spells and shooting. The fact that she is so powerful makes up a defence for itself, as I have noticed is that some opponents (ofcourse not all) stay far away from her and try to keep a distance and scatter their units all over the table, splitting up their line and makes it easier for me to take out smaller parts of their forces little by little without losing anything myself. The Black Draon Egg is her only defensive mechanism aside of being a threat - either used to buff her to T6 the one turn she is threatened - or to flame down blocks of infantry. The people I play with often are used to this and know how to deal with it, but when I face new people, like in tournaments, they don't know anything and it can be a very benefisual approach.

The second alternative peg sorc is just a level 2 with Lifetaker and Tome of Furion - and this sorceress will be accompanied by another level 2 with scroll and focus familiar, hiding behond the troops and casting spells all over the table thanks to the familiar.

It has come to my mind that, given the current comp, we can afford a maximum of level 4 since each spell caster counts as adding an additional Power Dice due to power of darkness. So a level 4 and level 1 is very not effective, earlier I tried to field a level 3 on peg with same eqiup as the solo level 4 accompanied with a level 2 with scroll and focie, but it cost too much comp to be effective - since then I have to remove other "filth" and "cheese".


Overall, I like the list. I would immagine that you could drop one bolt thrower and the shade unit for a block of 25 warriors with FC.
And instead of your level 1, you could take a Death Hag as BSB, with Rune of Khaine and Witchbrew along with Hag Banner and put her with the Executioner group and give the execs Banner of Murder. And you can also drop the Black Guards for 20 Corsairs with Sea Banner. Oh and increase the number of executioners a bit, and use your harpies to screen the executioner so the hag does not charge out all of a sudden.
Another thought to help with changes and save a few points is to put the Dark Riders together into One unit of 8 or so, coss then you can afford to lose some and also pack an evil punch on a flank and get as many of them as possible (up to 8 ofcourse if all are alive and well, depending on how many ranks the charged unit has)

ASF Executioners with a Hag that does 6-8 attacks with poison and St4 with AP -1 accompanied with the CoB giving an extra attack - so 7-9 attacks and the executioners themselves can deliver 13 attacks (6 models, 7 wide one of them being the hag, with champion) For a total of 20-22 attacks, 13 of them being with KB. This, my friend, is perhaps The most evil and powerful combo we can muster with executioners.

If you choose to play with Corsairs, it is sometimes a good idea to give the unit an Assassin with Manbane and whatever else you want (additional Hand Weapon, and if your comp allows, Rune of Khaine) He will benefit from the units banner giving him an extra attack - which is really effective. This is what I would swap in instead of your master.

These are just sugestions, and thoughts that works with comp - ofcourse you can tweak it any way you want, but according to my experiances with tournaments and cassual gaming, it is a good idea to stick with a concept, and master the models and units you have before you make any huge changes.
Oh and one final thing, if you are looking for something strong to assist your hydra, I would recommend one or two chariots. I tried to do the job with CoKs, but they do the job only half as good as two chariots, and on a side note, chariots are much harder to kill (except for cannons d'oh)


Hope I have given you some decent pointers about the sorceress at least.
Take care and good luck

[The warchief]

Okay, reworked version; I’ve managed to get the spear block in, upgraded the L1 to L2 and switched a few toys around. This has been at the expense of a unit of Dark Riders and the Warbanner on the Execs…. Better or Worse?


Supreme Sorceress L4, Pegi, Lifetaker, FF
Sorceress, L2, Dispel Scrolls x 2
Death Hag, Cauldron
Master, BSB, ASF Banner, HA, SDC, GW

5 Dark Riders, RXB, Musician
5 Harpies
5 Harpies
10 Repeater Crossbows
20 Warriors, FC, Sh

14 Executioners, Ch, StB
13 Black Guard, Ch, StB, Crimson Death, Banner of Murder
5 Shades, GW

1 Hydra
2 Bolt Throwers

Total – 2248
PD – 9 of 9 max
DD – 7 of 8 max
Shots – 49 of 60 max
Flyers – 3 of 3 max
Terror – 2 of 2 max
War Machines – 3 of 4 max