2250 South Coast GT list idea

Skilgannon · Post by **Skilgannon** » Mon Mar 29, 2010 9:55 am

Hi guys, I have been practicing with a SCGT list for a while now and as the list deadline approaches I am considering radically changing it. SCGT is a 2250 comped event main resitrctions are:

9PD/8DD
Pendant counts as a rare.
Ring of Hotek counts as 4DD and can't be taken on a champion.
Limits on Shades and shooting.

My List:

Dread Lord: Dark Steed, SDC, Heavy Armour, Shield, Black Amulet, Death Piercer: 268pts
Master: BSB, Dark Steed, SDC, Heavy Armour, Shield, Pendant of Khaleth, Sword of Might: 177pts
Death Hag: Cauldron of Blood: 200pts
Sorceress: L1, Dispel Scroll, Ring of Hotek: 150pts

20 Warriors: CSM, Shields: 155pts
20 Warriors: CSM: 135pts
20 Warriors: CSM: 135pts
10 Repeater Crossbows: 100pts
10 Repeater Crossbows: 100pts
5 Harpies: 55pts
5 Harpies: 55pts

5 Cold One Knights: SM: 159pts
5 Cold One Knights: SM: 159pts
Cold One Chariot: 100pts
Cold One Chariot: 100pts

Repeater Bolt Thrower: 100pts
Repeater Bolt Thrower: 100pts

2248pts

I figure the Cold One Knights will be quite good with the Cauldron (it is only 100 points for most standards captured) and the Spears will also benefit against it. The shooting gives me a decent chance of putting pressure on large targets (there aren't many restrictions on these) such as the doomwheel etc. The Ring of Hotek can be kept in range of all the army if required but usually will just defend the bulk of the army. I figure the two mounted characters along with the cauldron will give the list lots of flexibility as they can go in the knights or the spears depending on need.

What do you guys think?

Marauder mitch2 · Post by **Marauder mitch2** » Mon Mar 29, 2010 3:46 pm

Nice idea, only thing is i think the characters need to be on cold ones, and the regen armour on the BSB with a hydra in place of a spear block to give you more punch and cauldron options.

Skilgannon · Post by **Skilgannon** » Mon Mar 29, 2010 4:17 pm

Cheers Mitch,

Yeah I probably should take a Hydra but I just don't seem to like lists when I put the Hydra in. Also I really noticed not having 3 units of spears when playing my Mersey list at 2000pts rather than 2250. Also with so many flaming attacks regen armour ain't no pendant.

I'm surprised about the Cold One suggestion maybe you could expand on it. My thinking was the extra move is very useful but more than that the reliability may be an issue I already have 4 stupidity test to take and if I am using them in the spear units (which is likely to be a fair bit of the time I recon) that puts me on 6 stupity test per turn and all my access to higher strength attacks is now stupid. Also it is about 20 points more expensive for the two characters.

Scyloc · Post by **Scyloc** » Tue Mar 30, 2010 10:19 am

Hello Skilgannon,

First of all. Im inspired by your excellent use of "horde"-style DEs. I have studied your Warrior tactics and your battlereports.

I like your list. The only thing I do not like is the dreadlord build. I strongly agree that with that many stupid important units, you need Ld 10.

But what is his role? Is it to charge big things? Your BSB actually does that job better.

Maybe im just not a big fan of the black amulet.

What role have you envisioned for you Dreadlord? What niche does he fill?

A hydra would definately be nice, but im not sure it is your style.

Skilgannon · Post by **Skilgannon** » Tue Mar 30, 2010 10:58 am

Cheers Syloc,

Yeah I just don't think a Hydra suits my style of play I have never been much of one for monsters anyway. Whenever I use I hydra I just end up looking at it thinking I could have more spearmen instead of you.

The Dreadlord has multiple uses:
- Ld10 great with all those stupid units and with a BSB to make the spear stick around if I have to do a dicey combat/charge fear causers.
- The Dark Steed makes him flexible he can: get his Ld 10 where it is needed; charge out on his own; make a spear block quite nasty (Blood Thirsters etc. won't fancy facing that unit); go in a Cold One Knight unit to mkae them a scarier prospect (maybe even with the BSB as well for a really nasty unit).
- I like the Black Amulet, it still gives him a good ward save and bouncing wounds back is very nasty even against the worst opponents you are likely to come out on top as you get half his wounds plus you own. It has always worked for me in the past.
- The BSB is good at charging out on his own but sometimes it helps to have two units that can do that. Also both could charge one target which is quite nasty especailly with a chariot.

Basically he provides lots of support to the army as a whole without one defined role.

Marauder mitch2 · Post by **Marauder mitch2** » Tue Mar 30, 2010 11:07 am

The reason i was saying cold one mounts was, the immune to fear for the spear blocks which will improve the resilience against the vampires/daemon armies you will see, also the extra armour save is beneficial as well.

The only down side is the extra stupidity tests, but maybe swap a chariot for a small Executioner unit which is also a stubborn unit as well.

Scyloc · Post by **Scyloc** » Tue Mar 30, 2010 12:15 pm

Why did you put the DL with Potion of Strength & Dagger of Hotek on the shelf?
Agreed he lacks flexibility compared to a DS mounted one. But he seems to have worked for you in the past.

A meta-question:
Your army design is very similar to the empire TVI design. Is this deliberate? (Your inspiration) or just coincidental?

The warchief · Post by **The warchief** » Tue Mar 30, 2010 12:56 pm

Whats the 'empire TVI design'?

What was your original SCGT list that you ditched?

Scyloc · Post by **Scyloc** » Tue Mar 30, 2010 1:16 pm

One of the most famous empire generals is Tim Walker also known as The Village Idiot (TVI).
In 2003 he won the Charlotte Grand Tourney featuring a unique playing style centered around core blocks of troops supported by cheap knights etc.

The tactics is also named "The battalion concept".

In short. The army is based around at least 3 large core blocks, which should ideally stretch across the entire table / or at least in such a way as you cover your flanks using terrain for instance.
The core blocks are the most important element in the army, and everything is else used to support these blocks.
Each block has one unit of knights or fast cavelry "assigned" to assist it. Either through a side charge or through redirection.
Every unit that is not part of the main infantry line, must support the blocks and not run around killing stuff on its own.
Artillery and Magic are used defensively to decimate the largest threats to the blocks safety.

Thats the TVI style empire army, in a short and simplified version.

If you need more information there is a good article at warhammer-empire.com in the "war room" under "general tactics".

Skilgannon · Post by **Skilgannon** » Tue Mar 30, 2010 9:36 pm

Why did you put the DL with Potion of Strength & Dagger of Hotek on the shelf?

That army list is still going on but I am using it for the Midlands GT later in the year. I won a one day with the list a couple of weeks ago and it works ok. I just like changing things up to be honest and for this list the flexibility of the lord was important. I used every unit type (excluding character mounts) at one tournament or another last year, I love the range of options in the book so end up using them with so many lists, I will probably have about 10-12 two day events this year and I expect to use a different list at each of them (this will already be my fourth tournament list used this year).

Your army design is very similar to the empire TVI design. Is this deliberate? (Your inspiration) or just coincidental?

I'd never heard of it before to be honest thanks for explaining it. With the unreliability of stupidity it wouldn't work perfectly in this army (although it would to an extent) and static combat res won't do everything these days against what you have to face sadly.

I had a game today with the list I made a couple of mistakes and failed lots of stupidity but managed to win thanks to the Slaan miscasting (turn after hotek died) and Double 1 ended his day and several temple guard's. I liked the list in general but I think I need more practice with the list to get a better feel for it (a good sign for a list IMO), luckily I have a one day practice tournament the weekend before to get extra competitive practice.

What was your original SCGT list that you ditched?

Supreme Sorceress: L3, Sacrifical Dagger, Lifetaker, Dispel Scroll: 305pts
Sorcerss: L2, Dispel Scroll, Tome of Furion: 175pts
Death Hag: BSB, Cauldron of Blood: 225pts

Assassin: AHW, Rune of Khaine, Touch of Death, Dark Venom: 161pts

21 Warriors: CSM, Warbanner: 166pts
15 Warriors: CSM: 105pts
10 RXB: Shields, M: 115pts
5 Harpies: 55pts
5 Harpies: 55pts

5 Cold One Knights: M: 143pts
Cold One Chariot: 100pts
14 Black Guard: CSM, Crimson Death, Banner of Murder: 267pts

Hydra: 175pts
2 Repeater Bolt Throwers: 200pts

2247pts

Nothing wrong with it. It just didn't feel like my kind of army so I didn't enjoy using it as much.

Scyloc · Post by **Scyloc** » Wed Mar 31, 2010 7:38 am

I certainly understand the need for diversity and trying different options. It is the only way to expend your playstyle and learn the usage of new builds.

It will be very interesting to hear how you do with this new list. I hope you post a battlereport soon.

Good luck in the tournament.

Comrade igor · Post by **Comrade igor** » Thu Apr 01, 2010 12:14 pm

This list will do well, no doubt about it. Whether it would be enough to win the tournament i don't know - judging by the list(s) you produce you don't mind sacrificing stuff and that can give a few points away meaning the difference between a solid and a minor for example.

One suggestion can be to drop one unit of xbowmen down to 5 DR with xbows, drop a unit of Knights, beef up the other with command and magic items and get some shades. Would give you far more versatility but 1 less (obvious) CoB target.

Skilgannon · Post by **Skilgannon** » Thu Apr 01, 2010 5:14 pm

I've gone off Dark Riders to be honest they wer pretty rubbish for me at Mersey. I don't mind shades but they don't fit my play style to well I like to put it up them a bit more.

Also why would I want to drop a stupid unit? :lol:

Skilgannon · Post by **Skilgannon** » Fri Apr 02, 2010 6:14 pm

Ok well the list has now been submitted. I have had a couple of games and I am enjoying using the list and I have started writing battle reports of my practice games so if anyone is interested here is the link:

http://www.druchii.net/viewtopic.php?p=789063#789063