Flying Assasins! - The experiment

[Entreri bloodletter]

So this is my attempt at a highly uncoventional army that is supposed to play extremely mobile and attack with precision strikes at the enemy. It is very vulnerable to counterattack but hard hitting on the offensive. What do you guys think? I'll probably play this army on Saturday, so a few comments before then would be appreciated.

Level 2 Sorceress on Pegasus - Lifetaker, Powerstone - 235
Level 2 Sorceress on Dark Steed - Sacrificial Dagger, Scroll - 197
BSB on Pegasus Standard of Slaughter, lance, shield, SDC, heavy armor 204
Assasin - Manbane, Rending Stars, Cloak of Twilight, AHW - 171
Assasin - Manbane, Rune of Khaine, AHW - 146
Assasin - Touch of Death, Rune of Khaine, Black Lotus - 171

10 RXB, shields - 110
10 RXB, shields - 110
26 Spearmen, shields, FC, Warbanner - 236
5 Harpies - 55
5 Harpies - 55
5 Harpies - 55

5 Shades, GW - 90
6 Shades, GW - 108
5 CoK, musician - 143

1 Hydra - 175

Total: 2248

I have the feeling it will almost play like a wood elf army because it will use a lot of hit and run tactics. Both sorceresses will use Shadow magic so I will have 3 chances (including bound item) to get assasins flying where I need to. The BSB provides some much needed static CR and can provide wherever I need to. The only real downside I came up with when making this list is that I really wanted another sorceress to help with magic superiority- what I have now probably isn't enough to achieve what I'm going for. What could I drop, if anything? Any thoughts/comments?

[Thanatoz]

In this army I'd replace the pegasus bsb by a cauldron. This can give any unit you have a tremendous boost.

Say you need a killing blow assassin when you have one with manbane around? Cauldron will fix it. Need to boost the manbane one with an extra attack? Cauldron will fix it. Even the save can come in handy when you're not exspecting to kill the enemy in one go. After all, just one successful ward can be enough for a second round of combat thanks to his high weapon skill.

Besides, it has good synergy with all units you have (like shades, COK and hydra), and on top of it you can make your assassins stubborn and solo charge them into enemy regiments.

Anyway, that would be my preference, and add a little tactical flexibilty as well as an extra layer of danger (you're sure to draw out all dispel dice if you bless an assassin and start casting steed of shadows!) and strategic thinking (which unit to bless)?

Good luck with it, seems like a tricky list to play that'll probably win big or lose big (though isn't death star like easy). Don't forget to mage hunt!

[The warchief]

on top of it you can make your assassins stubborn and solo charge them into enemy regiments

Hit a flank of knights with a solo charge, as long as you kill one you've pinned them in place. I've won many a game like this!

Don't forget to mage hunt!

Another awesome use of the flying sass!

[Red...]

Assassins are brittle and risk prone: it just takes one bad roll of the dice and they're toast.

I think that you will be able to deliver them into combat fine, but they may not deliver at the level you need them to for the amount of points you've invested in both them and the wizards you are using as delivery systems.

I'd drop one assassin and spend the points elsewhere: maybe another unit of cold one knights.

[Sarcon]

Don't forget to mage hunt!

Another awesome use of the flying sass!

Unit champion: challenge!. Assassin loses by static combat res. Gets overrun.. 5 harpies are much better in magehunting.

[The warchief]

if your flying in the assassin its all about where you place it in contact?

[Ebonyphoenix]

Unit champion: challenge!. Assassin loses by static combat res. Gets overrun.. 5 harpies are much better in magehunting.

Barring magic banners, the assassin should only lose by 1 to most units. I would trust an assassin to do 4 wounds to a weak little champ. Pass your break test on LD9, then second round kill the mage.

That aside, the harpies are better from a risk management standpoint. 55points is safer to risk than 146+. The only time the assassin is more points effective is when hunting High Elf Mages in units.

[Camaris]

As we all know, the thing about shadow magic is that it has really nasty un-godly spells and some somewhat retarded spells. As a result of this, I would be tempted to switch out the peggy sorcs powerstone with a focus familiar to increase your chance of getting something like the lurker or the pit.

I would also be tempted to drop one of the assassins for 1-2 units of DR.(probably kit them out with just a muso) I have found that when you have assassins running around charging units by themselves, it pays to give them some combat support. DR do an excellent job of this, since fast cav will get them to where you want them to go, while hatred will actually allow them to kill things.

[Red...]

I would trust an assassin to do 4 wounds to a weak little champ.

Against a T3, 4+ armour save empire champ our assassin with rune of khaine and manbane gets six attacks average, hitting on 3s and wounding on 3s with a -1 armour save.

He gets on average 4 hits
Then another 1.333 for hatred, so 5.333 total.

He then makes an average of 3.5555 wounds, with -1 to armour save.

The enemy then saves 1.18 of those, and takes 2.37 wounds.

So, on average, your assassin does 2-3 wounds against a T3 empire champ with a 4+ armour save. And that's assuming he doesn't fluff his dice. Scarcely the kind of odds you should be relying on to win you games regularly.

[Entreri bloodletter]

In this army I'd replace the pegasus bsb by a cauldron. This can give any unit you have a tremendous boost.

Say you need a killing blow assassin when you have one with manbane around? Cauldron will fix it. Need to boost the manbane one with an extra attack? Cauldron will fix it. Even the save can come in handy when you're not exspecting to kill the enemy in one go. After all, just one successful ward can be enough for a second round of combat thanks to his high weapon skill.

Besides, it has good synergy with all units you have (like shades, COK and hydra), and on top of it you can make your assassins stubborn and solo charge them into enemy regiments.

Anyway, that would be my preference, and add a little tactical flexibilty as well as an extra layer of danger (you're sure to draw out all dispel dice if you bless an assassin and start casting steed of shadows!) and strategic thinking (which unit to bless)?

Good luck with it, seems like a tricky list to play that'll probably win big or lose big (though isn't death star like easy). Don't forget to mage hunt!

Normally I would agree with you about the CoB usefulness but I think in this case the BSB is a better investment. The major thing this army lacks is SCR and the BSB provides quite a lot in addition to some kills. Besides killing blow assasins don't benefit from the CoB very much and in my experience shades are hard to get into position to be useful charging. Don't get me wrong I love the CoB but I'm not sure that this is the army for it. It also ties me down to within 24", something that isn't necessarily going to happen.



The tome of furion(I'm assuming you meant that instead of the Focus Familiar) is an interesting idea, but does it outweigh the benefits of a secret powerstone? I'm not sure but its worth looking into. Having more useful spells early will help me draw out dice and scrolls leaving my magic more powerful later on. Also, since I'm going to be taking the #1 spell with each sorceress I really only have other spell to use. Come to think of it its most likely worth changing.

And it seems like many of you are advocating dropping an Assasin for another unit of something, seems like it might defeat the theme of the list of 'flying assasins.' What about dropping the RXB for two units of fast cav with RXB instead. Less overal shooting but much more mobile. Another worry is that I'm simply too vulnerable to enemy shooting but hopefully having so much mobility will reduce that threat.

Thanks for all the replies so far though, glad to see this list generating some interest! Keep 'em coming!


Here's a revised list:


Level 2 Sorceress on Pegasus - Lifetaker, Tome of Furion, Biting Blade(had exactly 5 extra points, so why not?) - 230
Level 2 Sorceress - Sacrificial Dagger, Scroll - 185
BSB on Pegasus Standard of Slaughter, lance, shield, SDC, heavy armor, pair of repeater handbows 220
Assasin - Manbane, Rending Stars, Cloak of Twilight, AHW - 171
Assasin - Touch of Death, Rune of Khaine, Black Lotus, AHW - 171

5 Dark Riders, RXB, mus - 117
5 Dark Riders, RXB, mus - 117
24 Spearmen, shields, FC, Warbanner - 208
5 Harpies - 55
5 Harpies - 55
5 Harpies - 55

6 Shades, GW - 108
6 Shades, GW - 108
5 CoK - 135
5 CoK - 135

1 Hydra - 175
Total: 2250


The newer version looks powerful, I might end up using that for my game. They also give me another target for the fear spell and for unseen lurker. What about the RXB, does it work better to have the infantry or the fast cav?

EDITED to reflect new changes in list

[Drek]

I think your spearmen are going to be in serious trouble, so be prepared to lose them. They can be a sacrifice, just have it in your head that your opponent is going to zero in on them. And the COK and hydra. Those will be premium targets. So your strategy will need to be that those units won't win the game. The characters will. However, I'm not sure your characters can do that. But I'd love to hear. Play it Saturday and let us know!

[Red...]

And it seems like many of you are advocating dropping an Assasin for another unit of something, seems like it might defeat the theme of the list of 'flying assasins.'

Fair enough...to a point. While theming is a very valid way to approach army building, you can't entirely dismiss arguments against the flying assassin strategy without risking building a weak army.

You could get lucky with it - either from the dice or under prepared opponents - but its never going to be a consistent game winner against decent opponents.

[Entreri bloodletter]

And it seems like many of you are advocating dropping an Assasin for another unit of something, seems like it might defeat the theme of the list of 'flying assasins.'

Fair enough...to a point. While theming is a very valid way to approach army building, you can't entirely dismiss arguments against the flying assassin strategy without risking building a weak army.

You could get lucky with it - either from the dice or under prepared opponents - but its never going to be a consistent game winner against decent opponents.

After thinking about it for a bit I am taking out the third assasin, while it does detract from the theme a little he doesn't actually do much for me that the army already doesn't do and having more troops will be more useful in the end. And I've always been more of a "play to win" sort of player rather than a fluff bunny so it doesn't bother me that much.
I've edited the previous list to the final (for now) version.

[Entreri bloodletter]

I played two games today and got two wins! One against a dark elf army and another against a wood elf army. The army worked like a charm and here's the link to the battle report. Enjoy!

http://www.druchii.net/viewtopic.php?p=792200#792200