Another 'Ard Boyz Rd 2

[Darklady]

Obviously, this list is subject to what the scenarios might be, but in general what do you think?

Dreadlord
-Sh, SDC, AoES, Dragonbane Gem, WoA, The Other Tricksters Shard, DP
279pts

Master
-HA, Sh, Lance, Cloak of Hag Graef, RoH, DP
190pts

Master
-BSB, HA, Sh, SDC, PoK, SoM, CO
185pts

Supreme Sorceress, level 4 (Shadow)
-Talisman of Preservation
305pts

23 Corsairs - FC, SSS
280pts

20 RxB - Sh, Std, mus
235pts

20 RxB - Sh, Std, mus
235pts

11 COK - Std, Mus, ASF
356pts

2x COC
200 pts

6 Shades - AHW
102pts

6 Shades - AHW
102pts

3x War Hydra
525pts

2994pts

It's designed to engage the enemy rapidly and assassinate enemy characters. I don't have much in the way of magic offense, nor am I particularly magic defensive. However, I figure that I should be able to get to any casters with ease with the 2 peggys, kill them and have dominance 2nd or 3rd turn. I was thinking of trying to find points for the feedback scroll. With open lists, its mere presence might keep the casting down. I thought the mobile BSB in CoK's supported the rest of the army better and helps make sure stupidity doesn't bite me. The Corsairs are designed to run 7x3, the odd 2 are for core minimum.

[Masamune]

I might drop a couple corsairs to make points for one of the many nice arcane items for your L4 out of the DE book. I feel it would yield a lot more than 2 or 3 corsairs.

Other than that it looks solid. Love the DP chars.

[Darklady]

I'm thinking maybe drop 1 shade from each unit, take the Crown of Command instead of The Other Trickster's Shard on the DL and ToF on the Level 4. What do you think?

[Pjeos]

Go for the Crown of Command, it will work wonders.

[Stonecutter]

Love the two characters on the DP - they will be very hard to kill with normal shooting. I am not sure what the main purpose of the corsairs is but replacing the SSS with the banner of murder and giving them hand RXBs will make them very flexible. In two ranks, they will get 40+ shots. The general tactic would be to move up and shoot, then do a S&S when the enemy charges. 80+ shots with AP prior to combat is likely to do a lot more good for the unit than a few extra S3 attacks in combat since there is no CoB to give them KB.

[Darklady]

I didn't think the BoM worked on the handbows. This is what I'm leaning towards right now:

Dreadlord
-Sh, SDC, AoES, Dragonbane Gem, WoA, Crown of Command, DP
299pts

Master
-HA, Sh, Lance, Cloak of Hag Graef, RoH, DP
190pts

Master
-BSB, HA, Sh, SDC, PoK, SoM, CO
185pts

Supreme Sorceress, level 4 (Shadow)
-Talisman of Preservation, ToF
320pts

23 Corsairs - FC, SSS
280pts

20 RxB - Sh, Std, mus
235pts

20 RxB - Sh, Std, mus
235pts

11 COK - Std, Mus, ASF
356pts

2x COC
200 pts

5 Shades - AHW
85pts

5 Shades - AHW
85pts

3x War Hydra
525pts

2995pts

[Masamune]

Yeah but remember those shots are only at a pitiful 8" range :S Might as well just stick with the additional hand weapons for the extra attacks and get in combat. You are paying points to have your slavers rule surely you want to use it and not pretend to be an RXB unit with 1/3 the range. RXB get armour piercing even without the banner so that saves even more points.

Tome of furion is nice but would have been my third choice. I like the extra dice from dagger best followed by darkstar cloak. The extra spell on shadow isn't bad though, they are all useful to have. With so many dice you can make sure that your opponent's dispels won't keep up and land your debuffs on his units or even a pit of shades.

2 DP chars and 2 units of 5 shades is more than ample to take on most war machines and wizarding kind.

[Darklady]

So I started thinking the Lore of Metal concerned me regarding my BSB. So I shuffled his items a bit. What do you think?

Dreadlord
-Sh, SDC, AoES, Dragonbane Gem, WoA, Crown of Command, DP
299pts

Master
-HA, Sh, Lance, Cloak of Hag Graef, RoH, DP
190pts

Master
-BSB, BMS, HA, Sh, PoK, Dragonhelm, CO
182pts

Supreme Sorceress, level 4 (Shadow)
-Talisman of Preservation, ToF
320pts

23 Corsairs - FC, SSS
280pts

20 RxB - Sh, Std, mus
235pts

20 RxB - Sh, Std, mus
235pts

11 COK - Std, Mus, ASF
356pts

2x COC
200 pts

5 Shades - AHW
85pts

5 Shades - AHW
85pts

3x War Hydra
525pts

2992pts

[Dyvim tvar]

Why worry about lore of metal? I would be shocked to see anyone using it.

[Darklady]

I would think it would be a good lore for a 2nd caster. Granted there is a more even spread of armies in 8th than there was in 7th, but I still think there will be a higher percentage of certain armies given it's the 2nd round. Most of the scenarios inovlve some sort of character killing. Most characters will have a good armor save. Also, I do expect a high percentage of WoC who are not particularly vulerable to Life, Death or Shadow. I may be over thinking it, but it would seem for those who have multiple casters and access to it, Metal would be a good choice for the Level 2. I haven't seen much of the tournament scene so let me know if I'm wrong.

Edit: Also, after some thinking, I may drop the SoM so my SSorc can have the Sac Dagger. I only have RXB to sac, but could be worth it. My characters would be set like this:

Dreadlord
-Sh, SDC, AoES, Dragonbane Gem, WoA, Crown of Command, DP
299pts

Master
-HA, Sh, Lance, Cloak of Hag Graef, RoH, DP
190pts

Master
-BSB, Lance, HA, Sh, PoK, Dragonhelm, CO
180pts

Supreme Sorceress, level 4 (Shadow)
-Talisman of Preservation, Sac. Dagger
330pts

[Darklady]

So, I've done a little tweaking and I think I've firmed up my list as follows:

Dreadlord
-HA, Sh, SDC, PoK, Dragonhelm, Crown of Command, Sword of Might, DP
300 pts

S.Sorc (Shadow)
-Level 4, Sac. Dagger, Talisman of Preservation
330 pts

Sorceress (Death)
-Level 2, ToF, SoG
180 pts

Death Hag
-BSB, CoB
225 pts

30 DE Warriors
-Sh, FC
225 pts

24 Corsairs
-AHW, FC, SSS
290 pts

20 RXB
-Sh, Std, Mus
235 pts

10 CoK
-FC, BoEF
320 pts

2 x CoC
200 pts

2 x 5 Shades
-AHW
170 pts

3x Hydras
525 pts

3000 pts

The OCD part of me really likes this list as each unit has a points value divisible by 5 (I know...) and the list is 3000 exactly. I also like the list from a tactical standpoint. I dropped the second DP character as I think the Shades and Dreadlord can accomplish what I want to do on their own. I also think the second sorc provides good synergy ( and the occasional nasty spell) with the SSorc's Shadow Lore for various reasons. I also went ahead and put a CoB BSB in. I understand that the charactersitic tests are a big problem for it, but I think the BSB on CO has the comparable vulnerabilty, just to different things. I think I'm providing enough high value targets and pressure to try and minimize my CoB's exposure. What do you think?

[Camaris]

The OCD part of me really likes this list as each unit has a points value divisible by 5 (I know...) and the list is 3000 exactly.

I must admit that I am highly amused.

Also, I do expect a high percentage of WoC who are not particularly vulerable to Life, Death or Shadow. I may be over thinking it, but it would seem for those who have multiple casters and access to it, Metal would be a good choice for the Level 2. I haven't seen much of the tournament scene so let me know if I'm wrong.

Not much of a tournament person, myself, but I do play a lot against competitive WOC lists. They are definitely afraid of the Lore of Metal, but, I, personally, think that your current magic configuration goes best with the list you have. I think most WOC players will be taking lots of marauders and hellcannons, so you can just throw the Initiative test spells at these units. Chosen and Warriors aren't vulnerable to Initiative spells, but they tend to hate the augmentation and hex spells; that unkillable dreadlord is also a great one man brick wall against these units if you find yourself facing an overhwelming amount of them.

On the whole, I think the list looks fairly solid. Only having two warmachine hunters could potentially hurt against those really nasty gunlines that 8th created, so it may be worth it to try to drop a couple corsairs and rxbs to get a small unit of harpies.

[A18no]

Your dreadlord cost the same price as Shadowblade.

Have you tried him in 8th? I can see that both will sometime have the same purpose. Shadowblade have the advantage of behing hidden.

If you take the banner of +1ld in the warriors, your Lvl4 will be at ld 10 for the army, not a general going anywhere like now. And remove 1 CoC and some corsair to up your lvl 2 to a lvl4.

Remove the lord for shadowblade = 0pts
Remove 4 corsairs and 1 CoC = +140pts
Give the lvl 4 to the lvl 2 = -125pts
Give the ld banner = -15pts

They're you go!

EDIT: just see that you'll not getting the 25% minimum core... Do you really need CoC??

[Camaris]

Your dreadlord cost the same price as Shadowblade.

Have you tried him in 8th? I can see that both will sometime have the same purpose. Shadowblade have the advantage of behing hidden.

I think the dreadlord is better than shadowblade. I used a similar dreadlord as that(gave him a cold one, instead) to charge a unit of chosen led by a sorcerer lord of Tzeentch; the entire unit was stubborn with a 3+ Ward save, and yet the dreadlord managed to hold them up for all six turns and kill the general. Shadowblade would have never been able to do this; he MIGHT have killed the general but that would be about it.

[Darklady]

Your dreadlord cost the same price as Shadowblade.

Have you tried him in 8th? I can see that both will sometime have the same purpose. Shadowblade have the advantage of behing hidden.

If you take the banner of +1ld in the warriors, your Lvl4 will be at ld 10 for the army, not a general going anywhere like now. And remove 1 CoC and some corsair to up your lvl 2 to a lvl4.

Remove the lord for shadowblade = 0pts
Remove 4 corsairs and 1 CoC = +140pts
Give the lvl 4 to the lvl 2 = -125pts
Give the ld banner = -15pts

They're you go!

EDIT: just see that you'll not getting the 25% minimum core... Do you really need CoC??

I think Shadowblade is too flimsy and less flexible. The DL can kill casters, hold up units, hunt warmachines, etc. I don't think the Winds of Magic can really support 2 level 4's so I believe a level 2 with Tome is more points effective. As you saw, I'm right at the core limit so removing any points from core is not an option. While I dont NEED CoC, I think they are the best options available at 200 pts when considering the rest of the list.

[A18no]

I see your point, an other idea:

For your lord: You can give him de regen armor and the dragongem. Pendant is usefull for your lord only with Str 5 or better non flaming attack. He don't care about killing blow cause he is on a DP.

You save 5 pts

Then give the pendant to the lvl 4, you save 10pts.

And you can give Crimson death/deathpiercer/magic scourge to the lord. Crimson death will make you at 3+ armor, and the other combo will keep you at 2+ (and still 1+ against shooting). But I think they are better weapon than sword of might...

And with the last 5 pts, give the ironcurse icon to the Cold one knight.

I'm just not sold on the combo pendant/dragonhelm.

Look good on paper, but are you facing that much Str4 or lower flaming attack?? The pendant on pegasus is really nice, make him near invincible against canon and other big things.

But for 10pts, I don't think you need to dragonhelm.. take the scourge and you get Str5AP attack... I'm sure that this guy will make better use of AP weapon than ward against Str4 or lower flaming attack... Cause you still got 2+ armor against all this attacks.

I see the combo ONLY for protecting him against metal magic... for that it's good. That much common to see metal lore caster ?? Not here though.

[Darklady]

I think if I were to follow your suggestions as to the DL and SSorc I would do something more like:

Dreadlord
-Sh, SDC, AoES, Dragonbane Gem, WoA, Crown of Command, DP
299pts

S.Sorc (Shadow)
-Level 4, Sac. Dagger, PoK
320 pts

Sorceress (Death)
-Level 2, ToF, SoG
180 pts

Death Hag
-BSB, CoB
225 pts

30 DE Warriors
-Sh, FC, BoEF
235 pts

24 Corsairs
-AHW, FC, SSS
290 pts

20 RXB
-Sh, Std, Mus
235 pts

10 CoK
-Std, Mus, BoMurder
319 pts

2 x CoC
200 pts

2 x 5 Shades
-AHW
170 pts

3x Hydras
525 pts

2998 pts

Awww, the numbers don't look as pretty !wink! Hmmm...

[Masamune]

List looks really solid to me.

[A18no]

The banner of eternal flame is good in the warrior. Only if your lvl4 cast the buff spell on them. If not, they really need the banner of murder. More than the cold one.

I love the ASF on the cold one. They re-roll each turn (Str4, not bad), and they can strike at the same time as High elf (you'll face many in the ardboyz).

Because I think that you'll give more often the shadow buff on the corsaire. With SSS they can be really nasty at Str8.

I see the flaming banner usefull for Abo/hydra and building assaulting. The first has a good chance of behing in the ardboyz, I don't se that much building. Wait for the scenario, and make the final choice at that time.

I just think that 30 warriors, 24 corsair, 20 RxB is not enough to receive big charges. My Ogre army have run through 50 strong unit of High spear with the shadow buff spells on, but they were stuck for a turn on the same unit but with 60 strongs. That last unit allowed a big block of swordmaster to charge my rear.

[Dreadimperator]

So how did it go for you?

[Darklady]

It went sort of meh. I think the army composition worked. My die rolling did not. I was below average in every game and ended up with 1 win and 2 draws.

First opponent was against OK. Big Tyrant unit with BSB. I only needed to kill the BSB or the general for the win, but I couldn't ever get a charge on it. He bottled his own deathstar up. I killed all of the outlying units and ended up surrounding him. However, the TO messed up on calling the time and our game ended before it should have with a minor victory to me. Got off Okkam's once, other than that terrible rolls.

Second was OnG, Skarsnik Goblin list. Between the scenario and Skarsnik, all of my characters started off the table along with a few of my units. His whole army depolyed. My Shades destroyed all of his war machines. A Hydra and my general broke a unit and ran it down. His horde of goblin archers with poison banner killed 2 hydras. I got off 2 irresistable Pits, but they scattered and missed everything (never casting big template again). Those were the only spells I got off. My CoK couldn't kill a single bolt thrower, got charged by Big 'Uns and failed break test on 7 with BSB and got run down. (even with swiftstride). Biggest failure of the game: Goblin Lord on Flying carpet, 2+ armor save and biting blade solo charges CoB and kills it after 2 rounds of CC, only taking 1 wound in the process.

Third game, VC. 6 Characters, 3 vamps, 2 necro and wight BSB. 2 vamps had forbidden lore with Metal. First turn, Irresistable Final Transmute on spear unit with SSorc. SSorc dies with a roll of a 6. 3rd Turn, General, Chariot and 2 flanking hydras hit his GG unit with BSB. My general whiffs on his BSB. His BSB and 3 GG kill my General ( I kept rolling 6's on PoK) and chariot. I kill all but 10 of his 40 GG after resolution. He raises them back up to full next turn (He was able to 1 die spam with so many casters, only failed 3 times whole game and it was usually with his last die anyway). Break the hydras in my following turn and run them down (Couldn't roll higher than 6 stomps between the 2 of them). I then proceed to spam irresistable PSoX with my level 2. Between that and my COK's I manage to finally kill the GG and few characters and pull back to a draw.

My thoughts on the list: I think just the level 2 with the book would have been sufficient. The rest of the list was fine. All of the units would have done what they were supposed to do if I had rolled even average and I would likely have placed. There was a 3 way tie for first and one them got massacred in the first game.