So, taking in to account what advice everyone has offered, here's version 3 of my balanced 8th edition Dark Elf army list:
Supreme Sorceress, lvl 4 w/ Pegasus, Darkstar Cloak, Pendant of Khaeleth, and Black Dragon Egg
Sorceress, lvl 2 w/ Tome of Furion and Seal of Ghrond
Death Hag, Battle Standard Bearer w/ Cauldron of Blood
20x Corsairs w/ Full Command, Sea Serpent Standard
14x Crossbows w/ Musician and Shields
14x Crossbows w/ Musician and Shields
14x Crossbows w/ Musician and Shields
5x Harpies
5x Harpies
Hydra
14x Black Guard w/ Musician
6x Cold One Knights w/ Musician
6x Cold One Knights w/ Musician
9x Shades w/ Extra Hand Weapon
And that's it. I took out the two Reapers and champions/magic banners from the Cold Ones and Black Guard in favor of more Crossbows, more Cold Ones, and more Shades.
The glue is actually drying on new cold one models as we speak!
I think that this is looking pretty good now. What does D.net think?
Work in Progress 8th Ed Army List
Moderator: The Dread Knights
Solid! The list looks flexible, strong and fun to play with and against!
I have a couple of suggestions for you to think about. These are all a matter of taste, but just to give you something more to ponder on:
- You need to roll well for winds of magic to make very good use of both sorceresses each round. Another option could be to give the level2 sacrificial dagger and guiding eye and put her with 25+ RxBs (would be two of your teams of 14 together). That way she could provide her own power dice and give the unit a reroll on their shooting hits. With a large unit of RxBs that can be rather nasty!
- I have always thought that 2 teams of 5 shades worked better than 1 team of 10. I know some people will disagree on this, but I feel that two teams are harder to deal with for the enemy.
I have a couple of suggestions for you to think about. These are all a matter of taste, but just to give you something more to ponder on:
- You need to roll well for winds of magic to make very good use of both sorceresses each round. Another option could be to give the level2 sacrificial dagger and guiding eye and put her with 25+ RxBs (would be two of your teams of 14 together). That way she could provide her own power dice and give the unit a reroll on their shooting hits. With a large unit of RxBs that can be rather nasty!
- I have always thought that 2 teams of 5 shades worked better than 1 team of 10. I know some people will disagree on this, but I feel that two teams are harder to deal with for the enemy.
I agree with what Auere said but I would probably keep the seal of ghrond over the guiding eye. That extra die is often the difference between dispelling and failing. On the multiple shades I agree.
I am a fan of the dagger but it will depend what lores you are planning on using. If you were going with dark with low casting values then you might get by and get most spells off (don't necessarily need to be able to do ALL because you don't always get the most useful of the spells), but, if you are going for a higher casting requirement lore then the extra dice from dagger would probably be worth 1 less spell to lay down.
I am a fan of the dagger but it will depend what lores you are planning on using. If you were going with dark with low casting values then you might get by and get most spells off (don't necessarily need to be able to do ALL because you don't always get the most useful of the spells), but, if you are going for a higher casting requirement lore then the extra dice from dagger would probably be worth 1 less spell to lay down.
yep I would try and find 17pts somewhere to get a tenth shade and break the unit into two groups of five.
Also, you can't have seal of ghrond and dagger together because that's over the 50pts magic limit allowed for a level 2. There will be more than enough Power Dice to go around for a level 2 and level 4 to use each magic phase so don't worry about it. Rolling double 1 is my favourite actually, a bit of luck is involved, but once you hit those power of darkness off, your opponent can only just sit there helplessly with his one die as your level 2 and level 4 goes nuts.
Other than that, your list looks exceptional.
Also, you can't have seal of ghrond and dagger together because that's over the 50pts magic limit allowed for a level 2. There will be more than enough Power Dice to go around for a level 2 and level 4 to use each magic phase so don't worry about it. Rolling double 1 is my favourite actually, a bit of luck is involved, but once you hit those power of darkness off, your opponent can only just sit there helplessly with his one die as your level 2 and level 4 goes nuts.
Other than that, your list looks exceptional.
What's mine is mine, What's yours is mine.
Now that we understand each other, lets get down to business.
Jacks -Shade
- WS 5 - - S 3 - - T 2 - - D 6 - - I 5 -
Equipment
Short Sword, MC Long Sword*, Dagger, RxB & RHB [20/10] MC Shade Cloak, 4 Throwing Daggers, 3x Healing Vials, 451C, [3]Dark Venom, [4]Unseen Chains, Food, Dark Steed- Spike
Skills
Basic Stealth, Awareness, TWF, Suithenlu Khythan, Ride
Magic Item
Eye of the Jabberwock
*Magical properties possibly imbued
Now that we understand each other, lets get down to business.
Jacks -Shade
- WS 5 - - S 3 - - T 2 - - D 6 - - I 5 -
Equipment
Short Sword, MC Long Sword*, Dagger, RxB & RHB [20/10] MC Shade Cloak, 4 Throwing Daggers, 3x Healing Vials, 451C, [3]Dark Venom, [4]Unseen Chains, Food, Dark Steed- Spike
Skills
Basic Stealth, Awareness, TWF, Suithenlu Khythan, Ride
Magic Item
Eye of the Jabberwock
*Magical properties possibly imbued
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Svarthofthi
- Executioner
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- Location: Within the nightmare twists and turns of Hag Graef.
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Two groups of shades while harder to kill perhaps will be much easier to insight panic upon. They're not stubborn either so yeah! Kind of a risk there splitting the unit. Probably get one to stay alive in the end but likely you'll probably pack more punch with the 10 in one group unless your opponent has a plethora of warmachines. Then again, attacking from two flanks IS pretty smexy.
"I have heard the call to power! Who of you can say you'd dare tread the same path as I?"
You're not going to care that much about panic when you're Ld 8.
You're never going to be stubborn or steadfast normally since Shades are skirmishers, except when they're in woods.
Nor do you really want Shades in CC anyway, you'll lose more CR than gain from a flank/rear and a charge with them most of the time. It's also easier to squeeze groups of five into your opponent's deployment zone than groups of ten
Though I have seen my five shades survive a charge from 12 Dryads with a Branchwraith, lost none, killed two, and sent them running.
You're never going to be stubborn or steadfast normally since Shades are skirmishers, except when they're in woods.
Nor do you really want Shades in CC anyway, you'll lose more CR than gain from a flank/rear and a charge with them most of the time. It's also easier to squeeze groups of five into your opponent's deployment zone than groups of ten
Though I have seen my five shades survive a charge from 12 Dryads with a Branchwraith, lost none, killed two, and sent them running.
What's mine is mine, What's yours is mine.
Now that we understand each other, lets get down to business.
Jacks -Shade
- WS 5 - - S 3 - - T 2 - - D 6 - - I 5 -
Equipment
Short Sword, MC Long Sword*, Dagger, RxB & RHB [20/10] MC Shade Cloak, 4 Throwing Daggers, 3x Healing Vials, 451C, [3]Dark Venom, [4]Unseen Chains, Food, Dark Steed- Spike
Skills
Basic Stealth, Awareness, TWF, Suithenlu Khythan, Ride
Magic Item
Eye of the Jabberwock
*Magical properties possibly imbued
Now that we understand each other, lets get down to business.
Jacks -Shade
- WS 5 - - S 3 - - T 2 - - D 6 - - I 5 -
Equipment
Short Sword, MC Long Sword*, Dagger, RxB & RHB [20/10] MC Shade Cloak, 4 Throwing Daggers, 3x Healing Vials, 451C, [3]Dark Venom, [4]Unseen Chains, Food, Dark Steed- Spike
Skills
Basic Stealth, Awareness, TWF, Suithenlu Khythan, Ride
Magic Item
Eye of the Jabberwock
*Magical properties possibly imbued
Yes indeed, one more Shade to make two units of 5 would be nice. That would be better than nice, in fact. I really want to do that.
However, the only thing I could really get rid of would be one of the units of harpies.
For a refresher, here's the list again...
Supreme Sorceress, lvl 4 w/ Pegasus, Darkstar Cloak, Pendant of Khaeleth, and Black Dragon Egg
Sorceress, lvl 2 w/ Tome of Furion and Seal of Ghrond
Death Hag, Battle Standard Bearer w/ Cauldron of Blood
20x Corsairs w/ Full Command, Sea Serpent Standard
14x Crossbows w/ Musician and Shields
14x Crossbows w/ Musician and Shields
14x Crossbows w/ Musician and Shields
5x Harpies
5x Harpies
Hydra
14x Black Guard w/ Musician
6x Cold One Knights w/ Musician
6x Cold One Knights w/ Musician
9x Shades w/ Extra Hand Weapon
everything is seriously @ bare minimum here, I've got like no extra stuff to cut except for Harpies. I could get rid of shields and musician from one of the groups of Crossbows, and then try to keep those guys out of the way, like on a hill or something maybe. Doing that would get me at 2497. Getting rid of one of the units of Harpies would bring me to 2461, giving me 40 points to play with.
So yeah, I definitely want the two group of 5 Shades each, but what to prune in order to achieve that?
However, the only thing I could really get rid of would be one of the units of harpies.
For a refresher, here's the list again...
Supreme Sorceress, lvl 4 w/ Pegasus, Darkstar Cloak, Pendant of Khaeleth, and Black Dragon Egg
Sorceress, lvl 2 w/ Tome of Furion and Seal of Ghrond
Death Hag, Battle Standard Bearer w/ Cauldron of Blood
20x Corsairs w/ Full Command, Sea Serpent Standard
14x Crossbows w/ Musician and Shields
14x Crossbows w/ Musician and Shields
14x Crossbows w/ Musician and Shields
5x Harpies
5x Harpies
Hydra
14x Black Guard w/ Musician
6x Cold One Knights w/ Musician
6x Cold One Knights w/ Musician
9x Shades w/ Extra Hand Weapon
everything is seriously @ bare minimum here, I've got like no extra stuff to cut except for Harpies. I could get rid of shields and musician from one of the groups of Crossbows, and then try to keep those guys out of the way, like on a hill or something maybe. Doing that would get me at 2497. Getting rid of one of the units of Harpies would bring me to 2461, giving me 40 points to play with.
So yeah, I definitely want the two group of 5 Shades each, but what to prune in order to achieve that?
cwoody0
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Svarthofthi
- Executioner
- Posts: 160
- Joined: Thu Aug 13, 2009 5:04 am
- Location: Within the nightmare twists and turns of Hag Graef.
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I dunno, are musicians really necessary for crossbowmen? Swift reform is cool and all but could save some points here and there by maybe taking shields and musician off of one group. Maybe put them in the back line so anyone that wants to hit them has to work for it that aught to be enough for a shade.
"I have heard the call to power! Who of you can say you'd dare tread the same path as I?"
@Diablo: I need 14 crossbows to complete the prophecy. The stars are in alignment on this, the 14th hour of the 14th day - place ye the 14 crossbows upon the golden hill, and the Everstar will be awoken! Praise be to the Everstar! Praise Bal'Thalos the Dark One!
I just like having them in two ranks of 7, it's a comfort thing.
@Svarthofthi: No more shields/musician in one of my groups it is then.
So, here's version 4 of what has become known simply as "The List"
Supreme Sorceress, lvl 4 w/ Pegasus, Darkstar Cloak, Pendant of Khaeleth
Sorceress, lvl 2 w/ Tome of Furion, Seal of Ghrond
Death Hag, Battle Standard Bearer, with Cauldron of Blood
20x Corsairs w/ Full Command, Extra Hand Weapon, Sea Serpent Standard
14x Crossbows w/ Musician, Shields
14x Crossbows w/ Musician, Shields
14x Crossbows
5x Harpies
5x Harpies
Hydra
14x Black Guard
6x Cold One Knights w/ Musician
6x Cold One Knights w/ Musician
5x Shades
5x Shades
And that's it. Shields & Musician were removed from the third unit of Crossbows in favor of another Shade to get two groups of 5 instead of one group of 9, which would have been weird anyways - a leftover from 7th ed where the Special slots were precious, and taking one unit of 10 Shades instead of two units of 5 was better because that allowed another Special choice. But now it's just points spent in each section... there's one thing that's better about 8th for sure, eh?
I think that this is pretty table worthy at this point, and it will allow me to get a good enough grasp w/ 8th edition to continue having fun with the game of WFB.
What does D.net think?
I just like having them in two ranks of 7, it's a comfort thing.
@Svarthofthi: No more shields/musician in one of my groups it is then.
So, here's version 4 of what has become known simply as "The List"
Supreme Sorceress, lvl 4 w/ Pegasus, Darkstar Cloak, Pendant of Khaeleth
Sorceress, lvl 2 w/ Tome of Furion, Seal of Ghrond
Death Hag, Battle Standard Bearer, with Cauldron of Blood
20x Corsairs w/ Full Command, Extra Hand Weapon, Sea Serpent Standard
14x Crossbows w/ Musician, Shields
14x Crossbows w/ Musician, Shields
14x Crossbows
5x Harpies
5x Harpies
Hydra
14x Black Guard
6x Cold One Knights w/ Musician
6x Cold One Knights w/ Musician
5x Shades
5x Shades
And that's it. Shields & Musician were removed from the third unit of Crossbows in favor of another Shade to get two groups of 5 instead of one group of 9, which would have been weird anyways - a leftover from 7th ed where the Special slots were precious, and taking one unit of 10 Shades instead of two units of 5 was better because that allowed another Special choice. But now it's just points spent in each section... there's one thing that's better about 8th for sure, eh?
I think that this is pretty table worthy at this point, and it will allow me to get a good enough grasp w/ 8th edition to continue having fun with the game of WFB.
What does D.net think?
cwoody0
-
Svarthofthi
- Executioner
- Posts: 160
- Joined: Thu Aug 13, 2009 5:04 am
- Location: Within the nightmare twists and turns of Hag Graef.
- Contact:
The list is absolutely fine.
Just for your last pointfiddling manouvre:
Give shields and musician back to the RxBs, and remove the champion and a corsair in the corsairs regiment. It will make virtually no difference for them anyway. And you are going to deploy them in ranks of 7, so 20 is not going to start with perfect ranks anyway (actually 19 will look better ;-))
RxBs need musicians and shields.
Just for your last pointfiddling manouvre:
Give shields and musician back to the RxBs, and remove the champion and a corsair in the corsairs regiment. It will make virtually no difference for them anyway. And you are going to deploy them in ranks of 7, so 20 is not going to start with perfect ranks anyway (actually 19 will look better ;-))
RxBs need musicians and shields.
@Auere: That makes sense. It is done.
@Thanee: The Extra Hand Weapon is there in the Shades, I just neglected to put it there. My bad.
So here's version 4.1 of "The List" - arranged in a more pleasing manner.
Supreme Sorceress, lvl 4 w/ Pegasus, Darkstar Cloak, Pendant of Khaeleth
Sorceress, lvl 2 w/ Tome of Furion, Seal of Ghrond
Death Hag, Battle Standard Bearer, with Cauldron of Blood
19x Corsairs w/ Musician, Extra Hand Weapon, Sea Serpent Standard
14x Crossbows w/ Musician, Shields
14x Crossbows w/ Musician, Shields
14x Crossbows w/ Musician, Shields
6x Cold One Knights w/ Musician
6x Cold One Knights w/ Musician
5x Shades w/ Extra Hand Weapon
5x Shades w/ Extra Hand Weapon
14x Black Guard
5x Harpies
5x Harpies
Hydra
And that's all she wrote! Only difference is minus champion and 1 other guy from the Corsair unit in order to get shields and a musician in the third group of crossbows.
@Thanee: The Extra Hand Weapon is there in the Shades, I just neglected to put it there. My bad.
So here's version 4.1 of "The List" - arranged in a more pleasing manner.
Supreme Sorceress, lvl 4 w/ Pegasus, Darkstar Cloak, Pendant of Khaeleth
Sorceress, lvl 2 w/ Tome of Furion, Seal of Ghrond
Death Hag, Battle Standard Bearer, with Cauldron of Blood
19x Corsairs w/ Musician, Extra Hand Weapon, Sea Serpent Standard
14x Crossbows w/ Musician, Shields
14x Crossbows w/ Musician, Shields
14x Crossbows w/ Musician, Shields
6x Cold One Knights w/ Musician
6x Cold One Knights w/ Musician
5x Shades w/ Extra Hand Weapon
5x Shades w/ Extra Hand Weapon
14x Black Guard
5x Harpies
5x Harpies
Hydra
And that's all she wrote! Only difference is minus champion and 1 other guy from the Corsair unit in order to get shields and a musician in the third group of crossbows.
cwoody0
i really like this build (well except for the weird number o RXBelves 
) but Army Builder said its only 2459 points... Am i missing something?
Supreme Sorceress, lvl 4 w/ Pegasus, Darkstar Cloak, Pendant of Khaeleth = 370pts
Sorceress, lvl 2 w/ Tome of Furion, Seal of Ghrond = 180pts
Death Hag, Battle Standard Bearer, with Cauldron of Blood = 225pts
19x Corsairs w/ Musician, Extra Hand Weapon, Sea Serpent Standard = 230pts
14x Crossbows w/ Musician, Shields
14x Crossbows w/ Musician, Shields
14x Crossbows w/ Musician, Shields = 159pts each unit
6x Cold One Knights w/ Musician
6x Cold One Knights w/ Musician = 170pts each
5x Shades w/ Extra Hand Weapon
5x Shades w/ Extra Hand Weapon = 85pts each
14x Black Guard = 182pts
5x Harpies
5x Harpies = 55pts each
Hydra = 175pts
_________________________________________________________
2459pts
) but Army Builder said its only 2459 points... Am i missing something?
Supreme Sorceress, lvl 4 w/ Pegasus, Darkstar Cloak, Pendant of Khaeleth = 370pts
Sorceress, lvl 2 w/ Tome of Furion, Seal of Ghrond = 180pts
Death Hag, Battle Standard Bearer, with Cauldron of Blood = 225pts
19x Corsairs w/ Musician, Extra Hand Weapon, Sea Serpent Standard = 230pts
14x Crossbows w/ Musician, Shields
14x Crossbows w/ Musician, Shields
14x Crossbows w/ Musician, Shields = 159pts each unit
6x Cold One Knights w/ Musician
6x Cold One Knights w/ Musician = 170pts each
5x Shades w/ Extra Hand Weapon
5x Shades w/ Extra Hand Weapon = 85pts each
14x Black Guard = 182pts
5x Harpies
5x Harpies = 55pts each
Hydra = 175pts
_________________________________________________________
2459pts
That's weird. I've got it in AB as well and it totals to 2496 for me.
lemme see:
My Supreme Sorceress is 400, but that's my fault: she's got the Black Dragon Egg, I haven't mentioned that in a few posts. damn!
The only other thing I can see wrong on yours - which is also my fault - is that my BG have a musician which I seem to have forgotten about, so they cost 189.
yep, so that's why you're off. Entirely my fault - thanks for checking my work!
So, because of my negligence, here's version 4.2 of "The List" - this time error free.
Supreme Sorceress, Lvl4, w/ Pegasus, Darkstar Cloak, Pendant of Kheleth, Black Dragon Egg. 400pts
Sorceress, Lvl2, w/ Tome of Furion, Seal of Ghrond = 180pts
Death Hag, Battle Standard Bearer, Cauldron of Blood = 225pts
20x Corsairs w/ Musician, Extra Hand Weapon, Sea Serpent Standard = 230pts
14x Crossbows w/ Musician, Shields = 159 pts
14x Crossbows w/ Musician, Shields = 159 pts
14x Crossbows w/ Musician, Shields = 159 pts
6x Cold One Knights w/ Musician = 170 pts
6x Cold One Knights w/ Musician = 170 pts
5x Shades w/ Extra Hand Weapon = 85 pts
5x Shades w/ Extra Hand Weapon = 85 pts
14x Black Guard w/ Musician = 189 pts
5x Harpies = 55 pts
5x Harpies = 55 pts
Hydra = 175 pts
2496 pts
lemme see:
My Supreme Sorceress is 400, but that's my fault: she's got the Black Dragon Egg, I haven't mentioned that in a few posts. damn!
The only other thing I can see wrong on yours - which is also my fault - is that my BG have a musician which I seem to have forgotten about, so they cost 189.
yep, so that's why you're off. Entirely my fault - thanks for checking my work!
So, because of my negligence, here's version 4.2 of "The List" - this time error free.
Supreme Sorceress, Lvl4, w/ Pegasus, Darkstar Cloak, Pendant of Kheleth, Black Dragon Egg. 400pts
Sorceress, Lvl2, w/ Tome of Furion, Seal of Ghrond = 180pts
Death Hag, Battle Standard Bearer, Cauldron of Blood = 225pts
20x Corsairs w/ Musician, Extra Hand Weapon, Sea Serpent Standard = 230pts
14x Crossbows w/ Musician, Shields = 159 pts
14x Crossbows w/ Musician, Shields = 159 pts
14x Crossbows w/ Musician, Shields = 159 pts
6x Cold One Knights w/ Musician = 170 pts
6x Cold One Knights w/ Musician = 170 pts
5x Shades w/ Extra Hand Weapon = 85 pts
5x Shades w/ Extra Hand Weapon = 85 pts
14x Black Guard w/ Musician = 189 pts
5x Harpies = 55 pts
5x Harpies = 55 pts
Hydra = 175 pts
2496 pts
cwoody0
Diablo wrote:btw theres still an error
KHAAAAAAAAAAN!!!!!
OK SO HERE IS VERSION 4.2 REVISION A
Supreme Sorceress, Lvl4, w/ Pegasus, Darkstar Cloak, Pendant of Kheleth, Black Dragon Egg. 400pts
Sorceress, Lvl2, w/ Tome of Furion, Seal of Ghrond = 180pts
Death Hag, Battle Standard Bearer, Cauldron of Blood = 225pts
19x Corsairs w/ Musician, Extra Hand Weapon, Sea Serpent Standard = 230pts
14x Crossbows w/ Musician, Shields = 159 pts
14x Crossbows w/ Musician, Shields = 159 pts
14x Crossbows w/ Musician, Shields = 159 pts
6x Cold One Knights w/ Musician = 170 pts
6x Cold One Knights w/ Musician = 170 pts
5x Shades w/ Extra Hand Weapon = 85 pts
5x Shades w/ Extra Hand Weapon = 85 pts
14x Black Guard w/ Musician = 189 pts
5x Harpies = 55 pts
5x Harpies = 55 pts
Hydra = 175 pts[/i]
cwoody0
In a related note, I was reading through the game types and rediscovered "Blood and Glory" - in it, an army has a "breaking point" equal to 1 for every thousand points the army has, rounded up. In the case of this army, it would be three.
It then is given a fortitude equal to 1 for every standard in the army + 2 for the general. That means for this army it would be 4. - 1 for BSB, 1 for Corsairs, 2 for Supreme Sorceress.
If at any point the army's fortitude is reduced to equal or lesser than its breaking point, it essentially flees of the table and the game is over.
MEANING: for this army, if a single banner is lost, or the general gets sniped, the game is immediately over as my fortitude is reduced to my breaking point.
Is that worth worrying about? Or should I just tell my opponents "no man that one sucks, lets roll again."?
Or should I just throw caution to the wind and go for it?
It then is given a fortitude equal to 1 for every standard in the army + 2 for the general. That means for this army it would be 4. - 1 for BSB, 1 for Corsairs, 2 for Supreme Sorceress.
If at any point the army's fortitude is reduced to equal or lesser than its breaking point, it essentially flees of the table and the game is over.
MEANING: for this army, if a single banner is lost, or the general gets sniped, the game is immediately over as my fortitude is reduced to my breaking point.
Is that worth worrying about? Or should I just tell my opponents "no man that one sucks, lets roll again."?
Or should I just throw caution to the wind and go for it?
cwoody0
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Svarthofthi
- Executioner
- Posts: 160
- Joined: Thu Aug 13, 2009 5:04 am
- Location: Within the nightmare twists and turns of Hag Graef.
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Oh dear. Yeah for the breaking point scenario you're at a delicate crossroads. Tailoring vs Fluffy. Take a bunch of banners and you risk ridicule!
However, tactically it would behoove you to play more carefully. Perhaps instead of the sorceress being on a pegasus you could stick her in a unit or perhaps give her the familiar and stick her in cover and snipe from behind a rock or something.
Sticking banners on whatever you can might be a good idea if you assume your opponent will do the same thing, might be kind of a drag if your opponent went fluffy and here you are with a billion banners.
However, tactically it would behoove you to play more carefully. Perhaps instead of the sorceress being on a pegasus you could stick her in a unit or perhaps give her the familiar and stick her in cover and snipe from behind a rock or something.
Sticking banners on whatever you can might be a good idea if you assume your opponent will do the same thing, might be kind of a drag if your opponent went fluffy and here you are with a billion banners.
"I have heard the call to power! Who of you can say you'd dare tread the same path as I?"