Hi All
I have decided to pick up my dark elves again having spent the last year messing around with Daemons (Boo Hiss)
The following is designed as an all comers list, my first effort for 8th ed and probably mildly dirty thanks to the excellent D.R.A.I.C.H.
modified following sage advice
1500pts
1 Shadow High Sorceress - General - 330
lvl4, Stabby Dagger Talisman of 4+ ward
A level 4 with a ward and some extra dice if needed
1 Master - 163
halberd, SDC
BSB, Black dragon egg, blood armour, luckstone
Straight from the site a nasty surprise for anyone looking at targetting a weak BSB.
29 warriors - 228
Full command Flaming Banner
Cheap and hosting the BSB
19 RXB Warriors FC - 234
Host the sorceress and get stabbed if required
5 shades AHW - 85
Great for harrassment killing war machines, infiltration etc.
5 Shades AHW - 85
2 Cold One Chariots - 200
The punch
1 Hydra - 175
The knee to the groin...
1500pts - Return to Evil Genius
Moderator: The Dread Knights
- Venkh
- Malekith's Best Friend
- Posts: 1975
- Joined: Thu Nov 06, 2003 12:39 pm
- Location: Returned from the East
1500pts - Return to Evil Genius
Last edited by Venkh on Tue Nov 02, 2010 10:45 am, edited 4 times in total.
Strange list.
The minimum change is to provide a muso to RXBmen, so that they could reorganize AND shoot.
The strong point of your list is the shades and the hydra.
The weak spots in your list is the general and the BSB: being inside the two units supposed to be in melee, they are going to be the #1 target of your foes.
Also, why don't you hire a supreme sorceress?
I don't understand how you intend to have your list to work:
The shades start by taking care of any warmachine.
The two spear blocks will soon meet the opponent's blocks. Hopefully, you'll remain steadfast or you'll win against larger but weaker units. Hopefully...
But then? You've got only the hydra to get into the melee and tilt to your victory. That's not enough to support two blocks.
Escpecially since you don't provide any buff to your units: no COB, no magic buff like Mindrazor.
Shades are one shot in melee: they kill a lot then they all die, so they are not providing that support.
RXBmen are not going to kill much, especially in melee, without shield.
Pretty soon in the game, I forecast your general dead, your BSB dead, your spearmen loosing a lot and being routed, only the hydra providing some challenge to your opponent... who was aware of that beforehand and should have brought the tools to deal with it.
The minimum change is to provide a muso to RXBmen, so that they could reorganize AND shoot.
The strong point of your list is the shades and the hydra.
The weak spots in your list is the general and the BSB: being inside the two units supposed to be in melee, they are going to be the #1 target of your foes.
Also, why don't you hire a supreme sorceress?
I don't understand how you intend to have your list to work:
The shades start by taking care of any warmachine.
The two spear blocks will soon meet the opponent's blocks. Hopefully, you'll remain steadfast or you'll win against larger but weaker units. Hopefully...
But then? You've got only the hydra to get into the melee and tilt to your victory. That's not enough to support two blocks.
Escpecially since you don't provide any buff to your units: no COB, no magic buff like Mindrazor.
Shades are one shot in melee: they kill a lot then they all die, so they are not providing that support.
RXBmen are not going to kill much, especially in melee, without shield.
Pretty soon in the game, I forecast your general dead, your BSB dead, your spearmen loosing a lot and being routed, only the hydra providing some challenge to your opponent... who was aware of that beforehand and should have brought the tools to deal with it.
Winds never stop blowing, Oceans are borderless. Get a ship and a crew, so the World will be ours! Today the World, tomorrow Nagg! {--|oBrotherhood of the Coast!o|--}
- Venkh
- Malekith's Best Friend
- Posts: 1975
- Joined: Thu Nov 06, 2003 12:39 pm
- Location: Returned from the East
Ah! My RXB's do have musicians, I forgot to list them
I struggled a bit with the characters. The 25% limit means that if i take a high sorceress I cant have a BSB and kind of wanted a BSB
EDIT - Of course thats nonsense! I have 25% for each!
Ill have another go and repost soon!
I can take pretty much any number of any unit at this points value so what should i do? I toyed around with a couple of chariots or perhaps combining the RXB's into one unit.
I could take 2 Hydras but i dont really want to. Seems a bit OTT for a couple of friendly games
I struggled a bit with the characters. The 25% limit means that if i take a high sorceress I cant have a BSB and kind of wanted a BSB
EDIT - Of course thats nonsense! I have 25% for each!
Ill have another go and repost soon!
I can take pretty much any number of any unit at this points value so what should i do? I toyed around with a couple of chariots or perhaps combining the RXB's into one unit.
I could take 2 Hydras but i dont really want to. Seems a bit OTT for a couple of friendly games
Yes, 25%+25% for characters. Beware to keep some % for the bodies! Characters are more beneficial as support than as killers themselves.
For the army itself, decide on a strategy and take the units answering to this strategy!
For the army itself, decide on a strategy and take the units answering to this strategy!
Winds never stop blowing, Oceans are borderless. Get a ship and a crew, so the World will be ours! Today the World, tomorrow Nagg! {--|oBrotherhood of the Coast!o|--}
- Venkh
- Malekith's Best Friend
- Posts: 1975
- Joined: Thu Nov 06, 2003 12:39 pm
- Location: Returned from the East
Hmm. Good point. Its been so long that Ive forgotten where to start.
When i design my army I try and take the tools to beat all comers if possible. Priorities go like this I suppose.
I need a magic defence. I hate being dominated in the magic phase. This usually leads to having a strong magic offence as well especially as the ring no longer works outside of mounted characters.
I then think about neutralising war machines. I used to take shades, dark riders and harpies for this.
That normally covers off baiting units as well which i will use to divert a big threat unit for a turn or two.
This also covers neutralising similar small enemy units too. In 7th this was a huge strength DE had the tools to almost always win the battle of support units allowing us to dominate the mid/end game.
I then used to think about, a block of troops for CR and a heavy hitter for support. I used to pair infantry units with chariots and they worked in little teams.
When i look at my opponents army I try and pick out the main threat and figure out how I am going to deal with it. I will also try and create an imperative for my opponent to deal with. Something like 'if you dont kil my sorceress she's going to barbecue half your army' I then try and frustrate my opponent as he tries to fulfil his objective.
I suppose tactically that makes me a blocker. Unless I can see a clear path to victory, I like to delay the big melee for as long as possible and counter attack when I have my opponent at a disadvantage.
So I guess my perfect army should hold netralise and harrass in the early game and take out targets as they present theemselves in the later game.
Sorry if thats a bit long. Those are my thoughts dashed down as they came to me
8th ed design is much harder than 7th. In 6th/7th you could take one or two optimal units of each type and have an army. Now it seems that you have to make a bigger commitment to one thing or another. Tricky!
When i design my army I try and take the tools to beat all comers if possible. Priorities go like this I suppose.
I need a magic defence. I hate being dominated in the magic phase. This usually leads to having a strong magic offence as well especially as the ring no longer works outside of mounted characters.
I then think about neutralising war machines. I used to take shades, dark riders and harpies for this.
That normally covers off baiting units as well which i will use to divert a big threat unit for a turn or two.
This also covers neutralising similar small enemy units too. In 7th this was a huge strength DE had the tools to almost always win the battle of support units allowing us to dominate the mid/end game.
I then used to think about, a block of troops for CR and a heavy hitter for support. I used to pair infantry units with chariots and they worked in little teams.
When i look at my opponents army I try and pick out the main threat and figure out how I am going to deal with it. I will also try and create an imperative for my opponent to deal with. Something like 'if you dont kil my sorceress she's going to barbecue half your army' I then try and frustrate my opponent as he tries to fulfil his objective.
I suppose tactically that makes me a blocker. Unless I can see a clear path to victory, I like to delay the big melee for as long as possible and counter attack when I have my opponent at a disadvantage.
So I guess my perfect army should hold netralise and harrass in the early game and take out targets as they present theemselves in the later game.
Sorry if thats a bit long. Those are my thoughts dashed down as they came to me
8th ed design is much harder than 7th. In 6th/7th you could take one or two optimal units of each type and have an army. Now it seems that you have to make a bigger commitment to one thing or another. Tricky!
- Dangerous Beans
- The Guiding Eye
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- Location: Sat drinking 'soul stealer' cocktails in the city of Vilebrier with Morathi...
Good to see ya (kind've an odd thing to say over cyberspace but hey ya know what I mean) Venkh! Agreed with calisson - pretty strange list but basically from your highly in dept analyses:
- disrupt/avoidance and bait with a 'tasty target'.
- then counter attack where enemy is weakest.
So you need a large unit of shooters for the enemy to 'head towards' but guarded by a pair of chariots to put him him off, then surround his battleline with the shades who pour fire in until the hydra has teamed up with them on a flank just as the enemy reaches your lines; upon which the chariots are unleashed, the BSB & warriors move up as RnF support/get the charge too and then Hydra bundles in possibly supported by the Shades if needed...
Meanwhile of course, your supreme sorceress of stabbiness pumps the living crap amount of power dice out through PoD and Sac Dagg combo - which I might add, is EXTREMELY powerful.
One question though.
Whats the supreme sorceress's lore? I'd advise shadow - just in case you have to use steed of shadows to zip yourself outta there (its not too hard for 2 units of enemy archers and a warmachine to decimate your RxBmen - eg. stone thrower/mortar on the unit = 15 dead, archers unit one finishes the crossbowmen off with double rank fire, then the 2nd unit kills off your sorceress...)
- disrupt/avoidance and bait with a 'tasty target'.
- then counter attack where enemy is weakest.
So you need a large unit of shooters for the enemy to 'head towards' but guarded by a pair of chariots to put him him off, then surround his battleline with the shades who pour fire in until the hydra has teamed up with them on a flank just as the enemy reaches your lines; upon which the chariots are unleashed, the BSB & warriors move up as RnF support/get the charge too and then Hydra bundles in possibly supported by the Shades if needed...
Meanwhile of course, your supreme sorceress of stabbiness pumps the living crap amount of power dice out through PoD and Sac Dagg combo - which I might add, is EXTREMELY powerful.
One question though.
Whats the supreme sorceress's lore? I'd advise shadow - just in case you have to use steed of shadows to zip yourself outta there (its not too hard for 2 units of enemy archers and a warmachine to decimate your RxBmen - eg. stone thrower/mortar on the unit = 15 dead, archers unit one finishes the crossbowmen off with double rank fire, then the 2nd unit kills off your sorceress...)
- Venkh
- Malekith's Best Friend
- Posts: 1975
- Joined: Thu Nov 06, 2003 12:39 pm
- Location: Returned from the East
Thanks Mr Beans so nice to be welcomed back its like being a fresh new newbie again
I was thinking shadow last night. I initially thought Dark as the spells are absurdly easy to cast but Shadow gives me the tools i lack elsewhere.
The pit
The mindrazor
The nerfs
The shadowy switcharoo
Just what i needed.
I think Ill try it and see what happens.
I was thinking shadow last night. I initially thought Dark as the spells are absurdly easy to cast but Shadow gives me the tools i lack elsewhere.
The pit
The mindrazor
The nerfs
The shadowy switcharoo
Just what i needed.
I think Ill try it and see what happens.