I might have nailed it (2500pts)

Post by **Dalamar** » Fri Nov 05, 2010 1:35 am

Pick this apart. I can't find any glaring flaws.

Supreme Sorceress @ 340.0 Pts
General; Magic Level 4; Lore of Death
Shrieking Blade
Talisman of Preservation
Sacrificial Dagger

35 Dark Elf Warriors @ 275.0 Pts
Shield; Standard; Musician; Lordling
Standard of Discipline

Supreme Sorceress and her power di... I mean bodyguard, yes, bodyguard! Shrieking Blade is a nice addition to help them survive if charged as any unit in base contact with the sorceress has to take fear test.

Sorceress @ 180.0 Pts
Magic Level 2; Lore of Shadow
Lifetaker
Tome of Furion

20 Dark Elf Repeater Crossbowmen @ 215.0 Pts
Standard; Musician

Apprentice and her bodyguard, providing shooting support

Death Hag @ 225.0 Pts
Battle Standard
Cauldron of Blood

Cauldron of Blood, duh

20 Dark Elf Repeater Crossbowmen @ 215.0 Pts
Standard; Musician

I'm thinking one unit of crossbows might not be enough.

Cold One Chariot @ 100.0 Pts

Extra punch to support the infantry

25 Har Ganeth Executioners @ 330.0 Pts
Standard; Musician; Draich-master

They pick a flank, then they go down that flank, they hopefully leave nothing alive.

7 Shades @ 119.0 Pts
2ndWeapon

Dark Elf Assassin @ 145.0 Pts
Rending Star
Manbane

Assassin and Shades, universal harrassment

War Hydra @ 175.0 Pts

War Hydra @ 175.0 Pts

My babies.

Models in Army: 120

120 models? pretty nice for an elf army.

Total Army Cost: 2494

Ichiyo1821 · Post by **Ichiyo1821** » Fri Nov 05, 2010 1:51 am

Ran a very similar list like this Dalamar the only difference is I ran 2 units of 5 Harpies and instead of an Assassin I took a Master on a DP and ran 30
Executioners still with an BoHG Hag and placed her at the farthest corner. I was able to play this list 3x and did well against Chaos, Dwarves and HE but Dwarven artillery hurts the Execs thus I reverted back to COKs for speed. It's a fun list guaranteed to open tin cans. Have fun!

Meteor · Post by **Meteor** » Fri Nov 05, 2010 5:51 am

Doesn't seem to have many apparent flaws. I'd question the efficiency of the big block of executioners, so do give them a few runs and let us know how they performed.

Post by **Calisson** » Fri Nov 05, 2010 6:59 am

Death Lvl4? Nice to see a diversion from the predominance of Shadow.

Good use of the fear-sword.
However, wouldn't a unit of harpies be more useful than fear-swoer + lifetaker, for the same price?

Truant · Post by **Truant** » Fri Nov 05, 2010 7:32 am

If you can find the points I would recommend the banner of swiftness:

1. if you exec are gonna flank (and be outside 12" of cauldron) give it to them
2. give it to the CoB, M6 means it will be able to give the 12" bubble even if you charge turn 2 with the execs

Post by **Thanee** » Fri Nov 05, 2010 9:36 am

Nothing to pick apart, just some comments/questions...

No Pendant of Khaeleth in the army?
No Shields on RXBs?
No Harpies?

Bye
Thanee

Demetrius · Post by **Demetrius** » Fri Nov 05, 2010 10:27 am

Never thought Id see one of your lists without harpies lol.

Spend the last 6 points on a AHW for the assassin. In fact, Im on the Assassin, Id personally think that 2 units of shades is better than one with assassin because with only LD8, they are prone to fleeing and costing you a few hundred VPs. Also, you can get some harpies with the saved points.

What formation are you running the executioners?

Red... · Post by **Red...** » Fri Nov 05, 2010 10:31 am

It's a solid list and very well constructed. 120 models is indeed very nice in a DE army

A few comments:

- 2 Hydras at 2.5k points? It's still frowned upon at my gaming club (although I appreciate that's not a universal thing...)

- You lack fighting heroes: no dreadlords or masters could be a bit of a drag if you do find yourself accidentally bogged down in combats with heavier fighting forces

- Your biggest anchor unit is also the one with your most expensive sorceress in it (the general to boot): it means you have roughly a quarter of your army in a single unit, potentially a bit risky?

- The absence of cold one knights, blackguard, corsairs or witch elves - combined with a lack of any fighting heroes - means you risk lacking punch and being a bit squishy. Yes, I know you have the execs, but you've assigned them to a flanking role, and ASL can be painful if up against really hard hitting combat forces.

- You've gone quite light on warmachine killers: just 7 shades and an assassin, with no harpies, pegasus master, or dark riders. That could be costly against a heavy gun and artillery line army.

- With no cavalry of any kind, your flanks may be a bit exposed and you lack some manoeuverability to exploit weak flanks etc.

Don't get me wrong, the comments aren't actually criticisms, more just things that spring to mind when looking at the list and hopefully helpful to think about (even if only to say 'no, you're wrong because...')

Post by **Dalamar** » Fri Nov 05, 2010 1:59 pm

However, wouldn't a unit of harpies be more useful than fear-swoer + lifetaker, for the same price?

They have completely different uses, so no, it wouldn't be more useful.

If you can find the points I would recommend the banner of swiftness:

I still believe elves are fast enough as it is. And no points to spare.

No Pendant of Khaeleth in the army?

Nope, because I don't want to be burned by my own fire. I believe character sniping is very important in this edition and the best way to character snipe is death magic... which has no strength value. 4+ ward is more reliable against those.

No Shields on RXBs?

I used them with shields for a while, didn't make enough difference to warrant the points, especially when crossbows sit back and avoid combat at all cost.

No Harpies?

Never thought Id see one of your lists without harpies lol.

No harpies... I'm as shocked as you are, but with the loss of 360 degree vision, Harpies lost a LOT of their utility.

Spend the last 6 points on a AHW for the assassin. In fact, Im on the Assassin, Id personally think that 2 units of shades is better than one with assassin because with only LD8, they are prone to fleeing and costing you a few hundred VPs. Also, you can get some harpies with the saved points.

I'll consider that, but rending stars assassin is a sure bet for getting rid of big nasty gribblies.

What formation are you running the executioners?

6x4, and yes, there's actually one too many in there, got back to writing army lists in AB again and need to get used to its system of creating units with a separate champion.

2 Hydras at 2.5k points? It's still frowned upon at my gaming club (although I appreciate that's not a universal thing...)

I love my hydras, I will always use my hydras, nobody can stop me from using my hydras.

You lack fighting heroes: no dreadlords or masters could be a bit of a drag if you do find yourself accidentally bogged down in combats with heavier fighting forces

With Death Magic, I remove enemy heroes, with Shadow magic, I make opponent crap so each one of my troops might as well be a hero. I see no need for fighty heroes.

Your biggest anchor unit is also the one with your most expensive sorceress in it (the general to boot): it means you have roughly a quarter of your army in a single unit, potentially a bit risky?

It's not an anchor. I don't believe in anchors or anvils. Fight on your terms, don't create units with a job of "holding the line"

With no cavalry of any kind, your flanks may be a bit exposed and you lack some manoeuverability to exploit weak flanks etc.

Hydras are awesome flankers, hell last game against beastmen my hydra got charged by a 35 or so strong block of gors, slaughtered them in two rounds.

Truant · Post by **Truant** » Fri Nov 05, 2010 2:32 pm

Just a quick reply on the speed issue

elves are fast, no arguing there.

but:
Cauldron is M5 no march, M6 really helps to position in turn 3-4 (try giving your flankers/warmachine hunters the buffs, or keep stubborn on khahanites, it makes a difference)

M6 elves are perfect to go with the hydra that has M6.

Just a few cents, I do understand that getting the points is really hard, I know how it is myself.

Post by **Thanee** » Fri Nov 05, 2010 5:05 pm

Dalamar wrote:
No Pendant of Khaeleth in the army?

Nope, because I don't want to be burned by my own fire. I believe character sniping is very important in this edition and the best way to character snipe is death magic... which has no strength value. 4+ ward is more reliable against those.

Fair enough. But why not take it over the Lifetaker?

Do you fear ethereals that much?

...got back to writing army lists in AB again and need to get used to its system of creating units with a separate champion.

That's not a system, it's a tragedy! :lol:

Bye
Thanee

Post by **Dalamar** » Fri Nov 05, 2010 6:42 pm

Ethereals? no, characters left out of a unit hoping to live on modifiers due to being in a forest, behind a unit and on their own. Sure. Last game I killed level 2 bray shaman ready to summon monsters from my back on turn 1 thanks to Lifetaker.

That's not a system, it's a tragedy!

It's a tragedy, but I don't need a calculator with it

Auere · Post by **Auere** » Fri Nov 05, 2010 7:22 pm

I thought that the +1 movement banner would proberbly be a good choice for the executioners if you can find extra 15 points.

Apart from that I would prefer more shades instead of the assassin. I usually run 3 teams of 5, and they work great!

Post by **Dalamar** » Sat Nov 06, 2010 5:51 am

Damn you all for giving me ideas!

The final final list mark 2

Supreme Sorceress @ 340.0 Pts
General; Magic Level 4; Lore of Death
Shrieking Blade
Talisman of Preservation
Sacrificial Dagger

35 Dark Elf Warriors @ 275.0 Pts
Shield; Standard; Musician; Lordling
Standard of Discipline

Sorceress @ 180.0 Pts
Magic Level 2; Lore of Shadow
Lifetaker
Tome of Furion

20 Dark Elf Repeater Crossbowmen @ 215.0 Pts
Standard; Musician

Death Hag @ 225.0 Pts
Battle Standard
Cauldron of Blood

20 Dark Elf Repeater Crossbowmen @ 215.0 Pts
Standard; Musician

5 Harpies @ 55.0 Pts

5 Harpies @ 55.0 Pts

5 Harpies @ 55.0 Pts

24 Har Ganeth Executioners @ 333.0 Pts
Standard; Musician; Draich-master
Banner of Swiftness [15.0]

6 Shades @ 102.0 Pts
2ndWeapon

Cold One Chariot @ 100.0 Pts

War Hydra @ 175.0 Pts

War Hydra @ 175.0 Pts

Models in Army: 132

Total Army Cost: 2500

Even more models <.<

Vaari · Post by **Vaari** » Sat Nov 06, 2010 6:06 am

Looking at the 2nd List, after having read your justifications for the 1st... things are looking pimp tight

Swarms of Harpies should allow you some measure of control over who is going to engage whom, deployment for you will be a fun time.

Don't forget to link us a battle report if you get to roll this list out.

Post by **Thanee** » Sat Nov 06, 2010 10:50 am

Not being a big fan of Assassins in 8th, I also like the 2nd list better! Yay, Harpies!

Bye
Thanee

Meteor · Post by **Meteor** » Sat Nov 06, 2010 12:12 pm

Hahaha, welcome back harpies! But so many! I only run two groups until I reach 3000pts!

Malus99 · Post by **Malus99** » Sat Nov 06, 2010 3:32 pm

Dalamar wrote:Damn you all for giving me ideas!

The final final list mark 2

Supreme Sorceress @ 340.0 Pts
General; Magic Level 4; Lore of Death
Shrieking Blade
Talisman of Preservation
Sacrificial Dagger

35 Dark Elf Warriors @ 275.0 Pts
Shield; Standard; Musician; Lordling
Standard of Discipline

Sorceress @ 180.0 Pts
Magic Level 2; Lore of Shadow
Lifetaker
Tome of Furion

20 Dark Elf Repeater Crossbowmen @ 215.0 Pts
Standard; Musician

Death Hag @ 225.0 Pts
Battle Standard
Cauldron of Blood

20 Dark Elf Repeater Crossbowmen @ 215.0 Pts
Standard; Musician

5 Harpies @ 55.0 Pts

5 Harpies @ 55.0 Pts

5 Harpies @ 55.0 Pts

24 Har Ganeth Executioners @ 333.0 Pts
Standard; Musician; Draich-master
Banner of Swiftness [15.0]

6 Shades @ 102.0 Pts
2ndWeapon

Cold One Chariot @ 100.0 Pts

War Hydra @ 175.0 Pts

War Hydra @ 175.0 Pts

Models in Army: 132

Total Army Cost: 2500

Even more models <.<

wow, that looks quite abit like my standard 2-3k lists in 8th, except I don't bring so many harpies, don't have a CoC or second hydra and bring CoK and BG instead. I like it.

Ichiyo1821 · Post by **Ichiyo1821** » Sat Nov 06, 2010 4:02 pm

I'm liking this list more. Just one more nitpicking suggestion if you will. I'd reduce the Harpies to 2 units of 5 then take out the Chariot to allow points for a master on a Dark Pegasus. Yes I understand the whole concept of using Death for characters but I personally prefer to still have a unit that is threateningly fast enough to hit a target by turn two regardless if I face a Close Combat army, a gunline or a hang back magic army. Since you are magic heavy, anything that will help you reduce his dispel attempts is welcome and I personally face a lot of instances where a mobile hunter really helps. There are just instances where you can have a horrible horrible magic phase or have too many priority targets that you have to deal with in a turn where you need a more reliable damage output. Chariots are good support units but you either need to move in close to him with another unit or let him get closer for you do utilize it to it's potential as opposed to a master who can operate on his own and net you results. Just my two cents.

Post by **Dalamar** » Sat Nov 06, 2010 4:08 pm

I'm still debating lore for the level 4 between death and dark...
Death has the upside of being awesome at character sniping and killing multi-wound single models (monsters, war machines).

While Dark is super easy to cast but suffers from short ranges and needs to rely on Shadow debuffs to be really awesome.

@Ichiyo1821

You mean something along the lines of
Master
Dark Pegasus
Cloak of Hag Graef
Ring of Hotek
Heavy Armor, Shield, Lance
For total of 190 points?

Harpies and chariot are only 155. But maybe replacing pegasus with a dark steed (loses 1 wound and 2" of movement, which is not such a horrible loss now that flyers have to march too) will make him 152 points.

The avenger · Post by **The avenger** » Sat Nov 06, 2010 5:19 pm

Dalamar wrote:I'm still debating lore for the level 4 between death and dark...
Death has the upside of being awesome at character sniping and killing multi-wound single models (monsters, war machines).

While Dark is super easy to cast but suffers from short ranges and needs to rely on Shadow debuffs to be really awesome.

@Ichiyo1821

You mean something along the lines of
Master
Dark Pegasus
Cloak of Hag Graef
Ring of Hotek
Heavy Armor, Shield, Lance
For total of 190 points?

Harpies and chariot are only 155. But maybe replacing pegasus with a dark steed (loses 1 wound and 2" of movement, which is not such a horrible loss now that flyers have to march too) will make him 152 points.

Hmm, yeah, I think that a steed, actually might work. Cheaper and almost as fast. Yes, you loose 1 wound, but if the enemy prioritates him, your other troops will have some more time to advance

But for the list, I'd rather take BGs than Execs, as I think they're more reliable, and strike first against most stuff, itp, always re-rolls. Black Guards have proven themselves to be the one unit I'll never leave home without

Bpack91 · Post by **Bpack91** » Sat Nov 06, 2010 9:42 pm

or when i take excicutioners i bring the always strike first banner no one is exspecting it and boom S6 striking first

Post by **Dalamar** » Sat Nov 06, 2010 9:52 pm

To take ASF banner on executioners you have to put Hag BSB in them... that's like a dead giveaway. She might as well be carrying "ASF banner here" neon sign.

Darklady · Post by **Darklady** » Sat Nov 06, 2010 10:34 pm

I've used the same list, with the exception of harpies. It would have worked fantastically but for my incredibly poor dice rolling. The execs worked well with just the ward save buff. I ended up losing by 150 points or so to a nasty Empire list even with my level 2 miscasting first turn, blowing up about half of her unit and running off the table after failing a panic test. Execs held up a STank, swordsmen unit and WAlter. STank and Walter ended up dying before the Execs.

xFallenx · Post by **xFallenx** » Sat Nov 06, 2010 10:39 pm

I would be very interested to see how this list plays for you, once you get it on the field let us know.