2500 Tourney Hard Comp!

Rabidnid · Post by **Rabidnid** » Fri Sep 16, 2011 11:09 pm

hansleonard wrote:So what does the people think?

I would not run it. Play it and see how you go.

Kaleth stinson · Post by **Kaleth stinson** » Fri Sep 16, 2011 11:53 pm

If you really want to use an assassin I would do the following: Change one of the Chariots for a unit shades and take away the rune of khaine and Cloak of twilight, and give him Rending Stars and then hide him in the shades.

I like your master btw

I'm starting to wonder if we should just play with the same list and get it over with

Hansleonard · Post by **Hansleonard** » Sat Sep 17, 2011 10:14 pm

I don't really see why all people hate on assassins.. They have allways done everything perfect when i play them.

Now the way i play him now gives him several helping opportunities.

1. With his Cloak of Twillight he is extremelly maneuvrable, able to cover lots of ground quickly. This also sets him up for Warmachine/Character hunting.

2. being so maneuverable makes him a good choice of teleporting my sorceress to safety. using his cloak of twillight to move him to a safe location, i can use the shadow lore attribute to get away from danger.

3. I consider Dropping manbane and giving him Killing blow instead. 5 attacks in base + Rune of Khaine makes a lot of potentially dead enemy characters and heavilly armoured folks. There aren't really that many high toughness opponents out there, so manbane isn't that good on this one i think.

I want to run this list and see how it goes at least. Just experimenting with different setups. If it doesn't work i'll change it.

Still well over a month to the tourney so still have some time before i need my list done!

Hansleonard · Post by **Hansleonard** » Sat Sep 17, 2011 10:16 pm

Rabidnid wrote:
hansleonard wrote:So what does the people think?

I would not run it. Play it and see how you go.

well.. that was a vague reply.. Why wouldnt you run it?

I can see a lot of potential in it. And it contains mostly all of the elements i love about the DE. (Only Dreadlord missing..:/ )

Hansleonard · Post by **Hansleonard** » Sat Sep 17, 2011 10:31 pm

Kaleth Stinson wrote:I'm starting to wonder if we should just play with the same list and get it over with

Haha

Nah.. that would be too obvious!

Laddyn · Post by **Laddyn** » Sat Sep 17, 2011 11:34 pm

hansleonard wrote:I don't really see why all people hate on assassins.. They have allways done everything perfect when i play them.

Now the way i play him now gives him several helping opportunities.

1. With his Cloak of Twillight he is extremelly maneuvrable, able to cover lots of ground quickly. This also sets him up for Warmachine/Character hunting.

2. being so maneuverable makes him a good choice of teleporting my sorceress to safety. using his cloak of twillight to move him to a safe location, i can use the shadow lore attribute to get away from danger.

3. I consider Dropping manbane and giving him Killing blow instead. 5 attacks in base + Rune of Khaine makes a lot of potentially dead enemy characters and heavilly armoured folks. There aren't really that many high toughness opponents out there, so manbane isn't that good on this one i think.

I want to run this list and see how it goes at least. Just experimenting with different setups. If it doesn't work i'll change it. Still well over a month to the tourney so still have some time before i need my list done!

The problem i have with assassin's is their point cost for what they do. If you want to use an assassin to hunt a character and you just give him the additional hand weapon upgrade you could have a unit of almost 6 shades with AHW. 4 attacks of the assassin vs a total of 9 attacks from the shades if you go 3 x 2 to maximise the attacks. Admitted some of the gifts of the khaine do help but id like to think i have at least a couldron available which would give me killing blow or a +1 attack option.
There are just so many good alternatives to an assassin for less points that i never field them.

As to your point 3. I have no idea how you get 5 attacks and then add the Rune of khaine. An assassin has a base of 3 attacks + additional hand weapon makes it 4 + Rune of Khaine would get you 5-7 attacks.

Jbtheslipperking · Post by **Jbtheslipperking** » Mon Sep 19, 2011 9:49 am

Asassin has its uses and are often feard by many opponents. Problem with asassin in a tournament is that you might face an army of DOC or WOC and hes not very efective or you might face a warmashine army like Empire, Dwarf or Skaven and he takes out som warmashines early on and saves the day. I have run a manbane rending star asassin in some games with mixed feelings. Once I did run a manbane, rune of khaine cc asassin to protect my SS. Got lucky and he killed a BT in one round. But that was ofc insane luck. Nevertheless, the asf + lots of atacks striking at the lone suicide char or monster trying to take out you LvSS can be invaluable.
Another litle often overlooked detail about the asassin is the Khainite aspect. Withing 12" of the COB hes accually stuborn on Ld10. This might not seem to important, but if you keep him in a warrior unit that get charged by a really hard unit like 28 BL they might opt for hitting the warriors due to WS5-WS4 hitting on 3+ instead of alloktating to the WS9 asassin. They win combat with alot and denies steadfast to the warriors, but the assassin will still hold on a 10 and saving the warrror unit from beeing run down. Could come in handy in a real grudge match imo.

Hansleonard · Post by **Hansleonard** » Mon Sep 19, 2011 10:36 am

Laddyn wrote:
The problem i have with assassin's is their point cost for what they do. If you want to use an assassin to hunt a character and you just give him the additional hand weapon upgrade you could have a unit of almost 6 shades with AHW. 4 attacks of the assassin vs a total of 9 attacks from the shades if you go 3 x 2 to maximise the attacks. Admitted some of the gifts of the khaine do help but id like to think i have at least a couldron available which would give me killing blow or a +1 attack option.
There are just so many good alternatives to an assassin for less points that i never field them.

The problem i usually have with shades are that they are very easy targets. Getting killed usually before i get the chance to do anything with them. In the last tourney they got shot to pieces or were forced to hide almost the entire game (with one exception, when they shot down an Arch Lector with three remaining Wounds after he had fallen off his altar.)

The assassin can hide in one of my units untill i get to CC or have finished off his ranged units so that he can freely run around and cause havoc or just be a real pain in the ass by helping one of my other units.

As the Slipperking said. He can be useless in some matches, but Killing blow with a lot of attacks can quickly kill an Arch Lector or a Knight or something else! IMO Worth his points most of the time. I will try him in a match this week against Empire and maybe another DE player and see how he fares.

Omnichron · Post by **Omnichron** » Mon Sep 19, 2011 11:02 am

I think you should drop the list, just get spear elf blocks of 10 each with a naked lord and noble in a couple of them and have banners in each block... Yeah, we are going to the same tournament most likely

I think the list looks good, although I don't like the assassin either as he can be killed so easily now. If he was a bit cheaper, I'd have him in my lists.

Also, with the current comp, I'd drop the sacrifical dagger and go for cloak.

Hansleonard · Post by **Hansleonard** » Mon Sep 19, 2011 11:15 am

Sac Dagger is 2 Dices each Round. Cloak is 1.. For the same cost.. I don't see why we shouldnt go for it..?

Want a practice match then?

Omnichron · Post by **Omnichron** » Mon Sep 19, 2011 11:52 am

hansleonard wrote:Sac Dagger is 2 Dices each Round. Cloak is 1.. For the same cost.. I don't see why we shouldnt go for it..?

Because the cost isn't the same. The cost of the sacrifical dagger is base cost + models you sacrifice. Even the weakest of troops costs more than the weakest of most of the other races, so the dagger tends to be quite costy in the end. At the worst, I had it cost almost 200 points in a game as I sacrificed as crazy and dashed out tons of magic.

As you can't get that extra out of the dagger when you need it the most, I would just as well use the cloak as it is actually alot cheaper.

hansleonard wrote:Want a practice match then?

Yes, although my main focus is to get my army painted... still got about 100 models left and 40 aren't put together yet. Would have been able to finish it quick enough if I hadn't got so many other things that needs to be done.

Anyways, I'll give you a message when I got the time

Tmarichards · Post by **Tmarichards** » Sat Sep 24, 2011 7:02 am

It's interesting seeing how people from different countries perceive comp, I think DE get away pretty lightly...

I've given that comp a bit of thought, and I've come up with a list that would run pretty well for you:

Shadow level 4, stabby dagger

Fire level 1, dispel scroll

Cauldron BSB

15 xbows, musician

15 warriors, full command, Standard of Discipline

2x5 harpies

30 Corsairs, full command, extra hand weapons, Sea Serpent Standard

2x10 shades, extra hand weapons

20 Black Guard, full command, Banner of Murder, Crimson Death

2x8 Witch Elves

5 knights in their pants

Hydra

Might not be the most obvious of lists, but trust me, it is brutally effective. I'm more than happy to explain any of my thinking behind parts of it if you're interested.

Now go forth, and bring me back their hobbies...

Hansleonard · Post by **Hansleonard** » Mon Sep 26, 2011 12:19 pm

After a few tests i decided to do some minor changes to the list:

Lords:
Dupreme Sorceress - LVL 4 Shadow, Darkstar Cloak, Lifetaker, Opal Amulet, Guiding Eye (goes with RBC)

Heroes:
Cauldron of Blood BSB

Master - Pegasus, HA, SDC, Soulrender, Dragonhelmet, Dawnstone

Other:
5x Harpies
5x Harpies

Assassin - Manbane, Rhune of Khaine, xtra hand weapon

Core:
30 Corsairs, FC, SSS
36 Warriors, FC, Banner of Eternal Flame
20 RBC, Musician, Shields

Special:
20 BG, FC, BoM, Crimson Death
CO Chariot

Rare:
War Hydra

The sac dagger was not worth it. And she is much safer with the crossbowmen. Also a miscast cannot cause the same amount of damage. I'll deploy my warriors deeper. And with the flame banner they can take out enemy monsters with regen. I never really got any benefits from the banner of discipline in my warriors. I rolled horribly anyways so almost looks like there's a curse on it.. lol

Hansleonard · Post by **Hansleonard** » Mon Sep 26, 2011 12:22 pm

So i'll try this out in a few games (against Kaleth as well in our upcomming battle) And see how it is compared to my last one.

Tmarichards · Post by **Tmarichards** » Mon Sep 26, 2011 1:38 pm

Xbows would be better in 2 units of 10.

Guiding Eye and Opal Amulet are really not worthwhile.

If you want that peg rider to survive, I think he'd be better of with the Cloak of Hag Graef and the Dawnstone.

Flaming banner on warriors is not a good idea, on paper it may appear so but in reality they will struggle to wound anything that would be worried by the flaming- they just don't have the attack output. A hydra will still munch through them.

Also, I've tried running assassin recently and... they really are not worth the points. That gentleman costs as much as 2 units of shades!