2500 Tourney Hard Comp!

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Hansleonard
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2500 Tourney Hard Comp!

Post by Hansleonard »

So i'm participating in a tournement in the end of October. It is for 2500 pts and as of now, DE have been nerfed a lot. It appears that since they can't come up with a good comp for Demons they take it out on our beloved Dark Elves.

So anyways here is the Comp:

- Characters will get "look out sir" versus the following spells that automatically kill models or automatically remove an entire regiment: Dwellers Below, Final Transmutation, Dreaded 13th, Infernal Gateway 11-12 effect. Normal requirements for lookout sir apply.
- Dark Elf Sorceresses cannot cast spells using more dice than normal wizards .

I. General Restrictions:

2500 Points.
No Special or Named Characters.
Army used can be any of the currently published GW Army books.
A maximum of 3 identical core choices may be taken (regardless of equipment and other upgrades)
An army may have up to 5 war machines and template weapons. Warmachines that use a template count as a single choice in this regard. All template weapons (from magic items, abilities, etc.) count, except for spells.
Max. 45 models with missile weapons with a range of 20”+ (not incl. war machines, characters and chariots).

Unit sizes are limited as follows:
Units cannot be more than 40 models nor 450 points (including all command, upgrades, magic items/banners). This restriction applies during the creation of the roster - unit size/cost may be increased during the game (for example - by joining characters to the unit). This restriction does not apply to characters.

Magic Restrictions:
- Apart from Winds of magic and Channeling, an army may only generate 2 Power Dice/DD per magic phase.
- You may have units/abilities that actually would generate more than 2 extra dice, but any excess dice are lost
- Some magic items/abilities count as generating dice toward this limit.
- “Count as” items/abilities may never exceed a cumulative 2 Power Dice/DD per phase. This means that if you take the Book of Hoeth, you may not take any other items that “count as adding Power Dice/DD”
- All modifiers are applied from the army list and will not change during the game.

Item restrictions:
- Each Loremaster ability counts as generating 1 Power Dice each magic phase
- Any item that auto-dispels a spell counts as generating 1 DD each magic phase.
- Folding Fortress is not allowed
- Crown of Command er forbudt, exceptions: Orcs & Goblins, Wood Elves, Beastmen, Ogre Kingdoms og Bretonnia.

Army Specific Restrictions:

Beastmen: Beastmen armies have an extra 200 points for their roster (2700 total). All victory points scored against this army are decreased by 10% (excluding bonus points for banners, general, etc.).

Bretts: No Restrictions

Dark Elves: Hydra is a 0-1 choice. Max. 35 repeater Crossbows in the army (regardless of who carries them). Repeater Bolt Throwers 0-2. Flying units (inc. characters on flying steeds) in the army limited to 0-3. Shades max 20 models per army. Pendant of Khaeleth is banned.

Dwarves: Each spellbreaker/spelleater rune counts as +1 DD. Grudge Throwers are a 0-2 choice; May generate Max. +4 dispel dice instead of +2

DOC: Max. 28 Models per unit; Flamers are a 0-1 choice. All daemonic gifts are 0-1. Bloodletters and Herald of Khorne are 0-3 total. Daemonic Battle Standard can take either daemonic icon or gifts. Lord of Change counts as 1 Power Dice. Siren Song only allowed on Keeper of Secrets.

Empire: Steam Tank counts as a war machine; Tank, Rocket battery and Engineers are 0-1 choices

High Elves: Max. 500 points or 40 models per unit; Vortex Shard counts as +1DD; Banner of the World Dragon counts as +1 DD; Book of Hoeth is banned

Lizardmen: Salamanders are a 0-1 Choice ; Terradons and Stegadons (any kind) are 0-2 choices; Beclaming Cogitations counts as +2DD; Cupped hands counts as +2PD

Ogres: No Comp

O&G: Night Goblin Shamans are 0-3 (max 3 of any kind of NG shaman); mushroom dice do not count as power dice in regard to the Power Dice limit.

Skaven: All Skaven rare choices 0-1; Gutter runners are a 0-2 choice; Engineers are a 0-3 choice;

Vampires: Wraiths and Varghulf are 0-1 choices. Wraith unit size - maximum 5 models. Army may have maximum two units (total) of: wraiths, black coach or spirit hosts. Army may include a maximum of two of the following: Helm of Commandment, Master of the Black Arts, Drakenhoff Banner.

TK: Neferra's Scrolls of Mighty Incantations counts as 2 Power Dice AND 2

DD. Hierotitan is worth 1 Power Dice so long as it's alive. Sphinxes of all kinds: 0-3 per army

WE: Wand of Wych Elm counts as +1 DD

Warriors of Chaos: Hellcannon is a 0-1 choice. Infernal Puppet counts as +1 Power Dice and +2DD; Tendrils of Tzeench and Conjoined Homunculus both counts as +1 Power Dice. Favour of the Gods cannot be taken by a Champion of a Chosen of Tzeentch unit


So there it is.

I need some input into what might work with this comp against what i can face. My biggest concern are against Daemons. They are pretty much untouched by this comp and have been the by far most successfull army so far in the last tourneys.
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Rabidnid
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Post by Rabidnid »

Keep it simple. Any balanced list will be fine.

DE magic is somewhat nerfed and the 0-1 hydra will bother some people, but overall a workable list is still possible.

lvl 4 with 100 points of equipment

master on DS with 50 points of equipment

CoB BSB

30 spears with FC and banner of discipline and shields

20 RXB with FC and shields

10-15 harpies

10 CoiKs with FC and ASF banner

30 witches or 20 BG with BoM and a muso

Hydra



That is around 2500 points and should work reasonably well.
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Hansleonard
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Post by Hansleonard »

Why Master on Steed? isn't he better on a Cold One?

And no shades?

I will wait untill the final draft of the Comp is out before i actually make a finished list.

Some of the points here seem valid.

But i don't really see why the full command on the Crossbows..?
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Thanee
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Post by Thanee »

I usually play with similar (actually they are even tougher) restrictions, as those are the most common tournament restrictions around here.

I generally play character light (in my case just a Level 2 and a CoB BSB, but that is mostly because there is a restriction, that only allows 2 total out of SupSorc, CoB and Hydra). Lots of good units have proven to be a good choice in 8th for me.

Can't comment on DoC, because I havn't played against them in 8th, yet. :)

I would probably field a Level 4 (Lore of Shadow) with SacDagger and Lifetaker (for those pesky ethereals among other stuff), and the CoB BSB for characters.

Then a unit of Spears (25~30) with Standard of Discipline, a big unit of RXB (~20), and either another of those or some AHW Corsairs (15~20 with SSS) to fill out the Core, and maximum small units of Harpies (i.e. 3x5). The Hydra is a given, of course. The remaining points should go into potent special regiments (i.e. any two of those ~20 BG with Banner of Murder, ~10 COK with Whip of Agony and Standard of Hag Graef, ~30 Execs with Banner of Eternal Flame), plus maybe a pair of COC, and/or some Shades (5 with AHW), if there are points left for those.

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Thanee
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Post by Thanee »

hansleonard wrote:But i don't really see why the full command on the Crossbows..?


I think the champ is not necessary, but Musician is a must, and Standard Bearer is useful, if they get into CC (which they might, in fact, I often use them to attack later in the game).

There are two ways to field RXB, IMHO.

Either in small units of 10 with just a Musician (and maybe Shields, depending on points).

Or in bigger units of 20 with Shields and Musician and Standard Bearer.

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Rabidnid
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Post by Rabidnid »

hansleonard wrote:Why Master on Steed? isn't he better on a Cold One?



If he is in the CoKs then yes, if not then definitely a steed or peg.

hansleonard wrote:And no shades?


Why on earth people run shades is beyond me, but if you want them, go ahead.

hansleonard wrote:
But i don't really see why the full command on the Crossbows..?


Skip the champ if you don't plan on having a character in the unit.
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Thanee
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Post by Thanee »

Rabidnid wrote:Why on earth people run shades is beyond me, but if you want them, go ahead.


Because Scouts are useful. ;)

I also think that Harpies are better, overall, but Shades definitely have their place.

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Hansleonard
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Post by Hansleonard »

Thanee wrote: a big unit of RXB (~20), and either another of those


I cannot field that because of the restrictions on a max of 35 RBC total.

So a list like this:

LVL 4 Lore of Shadow, Sac Dagg, Lifetaker, Dragon egg (for the close combat)

COB BSB

30 Warriors FC, Standard of discipline
20 RBC Musician Banner, shields
21 Corsairs FC SSS, AHW

3x5 Harpies

20 Black guard FC, BoM, Crimson death.
10 CoK FC, Standard of Hag Graef, Whip of Agony

Hydra

+ Maybe some spare points (don't have the army book here ATM.)

Does that sound viable?
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Post by Hansleonard »

There's one question i have.. I have taken a quick look through the forums but i haven't found anything.

Why is it so good with ASF banner on CoK?

They all have great I so they should strike first pretty much allways ?
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Assani
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Post by Assani »

Where is this tourney? Norway? because fome words was in norwegian:)
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Khitai - Khanite - Group 38
WS5 - S3 - T2 - D5 - I3
Skills: Ambidexterity, Two Weapon Fighting
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Post by Hansleonard »

I tried to translate most i could find.. :P But yes, it's in Norway.

Just spotted a few of my friends posting about the same tourney in the forum here ;)
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Post by Omnichron »

Seems like there's going to be many Dark Elf players :)
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Kaleth stinson
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Post by Kaleth stinson »

hansleonard wrote:There's one question i have.. I have taken a quick look through the forums but i haven't found anything.

Why is it so good with ASF banner on CoK?

They all have great I so they should strike first pretty much allways ?


Haven't I learned you anything? :P

Get a unit of 10 with FC and ASF, and you don't only have a unit that charges hard, but is resilent. If you charge a unit with ASF (like HE), you make them loose ASF, and therfore the re-rolls, And with our hatred we still get re-rolls (every turn against HE). In the second and later turns of combat you have a unit that still have re-rolls with ws5 and str4(Against I2 and lower even the Cold Ones get re-roll, with str4), and they have a desent AS of 2+.

So they are good allround hard hitting and resillent unit that can go and charge ASF units and grind down bigger and weaker foes.

They also work great with Shadow and CoB!


PS: I dont like that our lists are that similar :P
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Kaleth stinson
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Post by Kaleth stinson »

Assani wrote:Where is this tourney? Norway? because fome words was in norwegian:)



2d6 Challenge, Oslo, 22-23 October. :)
Jaith wrote:
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"All your cash are belongs to us!"
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Assani
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Post by Assani »

2d6 Challenge, Oslo, 22-23 October. :)[/quote]


I thougt it was:)

I was suppose to go there, but I cant:(
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Khitai - Khanite - Group 38
WS5 - S3 - T2 - D5 - I3
Skills: Ambidexterity, Two Weapon Fighting
Equipment: 2xfine scimitars, dagger
Inventory: Gold 30, Crowns 40, 1 Red ruby
Hansleonard
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Post by Hansleonard »

So i have come up with this list:

Sup. Sorceress - LVL 4 Shadow, Dragon Egg, Sac. Dagger, Dragonbane Gem - 310

Death Hag - BSB Cauldron - 225

Sorceress - LVL2 Fire, Sivejir's Hex Scroll - 185

35 Warriors - Full Command, Standard of Discipline (Wizards go here) - 275

20 RBC - Banner, Musician, Shields - 235

21 Black Ark Corsairs (3x7) - Full Command, SSS - 260

20 Black Guard - Full Command, BoM, Crimson Death - 345

10 CoK - Full Command, Allways strike First, Whip of Agony - 370

5 Harpies - 55
5 Harpies - 55

War hydra - 175

That gives me 10 points to spare.. Which i have no idea what to use for.. :P Thinking about maybe adding an extra Corsair, just because that is the excact amount of points i need to do it.

Anyways.. What do you guys think?
Last edited by Hansleonard on Thu Sep 15, 2011 10:46 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Post by Hansleonard »

PS: I dont like that our lists are that similar :P


That is the unfortunate side effect of the hard COmp.. Pretty much alle effective DE lists will have very equal builds with a few tweaks here and there.[/quote]
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Post by Rabidnid »

I would not run both sorc with the same lore. Give one of them dark or metal instead.

If you drop the champs and magic weapons off the BG and CoKs, that will save over 100 points. Drop about 5 spears as well and you can get the corsairs up to 30 and give the lvl 4 the 4+ ward in place of the dragonbane gem.
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Post by Hansleonard »

Sorry.. I meant Fire.. For Regen hunting ;)
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Post by Jbtheslipperking »

List is comming along, but be warned. The 10 COK needs to be hitting only soft or semisoft unit blocks. If you try to hit the hard guys you get eaten alive. Its easy to forget that its not longer 7 ed. and autobrake on impact due to fear or high combat rez. Against 25+ blocks with T4, S4+GW units you kill maby 6-7 on impact and 3-4 each round thereafter. They hit with S6 and kill 3-4 each round. After 2-3 rounds of combat they are still 10+ but your dead. Im just sayin. If you peak it with 11+BSB with Hydra banner you might go straight through, but that is alot of points. And also, GT with S5, Scap launcher with KB and empire cannons is a real pain. And last but not least, the standard 28 Blood Letter unit will tickle you really hard in that place where the sun doesent shine.
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Post by Hansleonard »

Ok.. So i'm thinking about maybe dropping them in favour of either some Bolt Throwers and shades or Executioners. In the Executioners case. How should i make the unit and Kit it?
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Post by Rabidnid »

hansleonard wrote:Ok.. So i'm thinking about maybe dropping them in favour of either some Bolt Throwers and shades or Executioners. In the Executioners case. How should i make the unit and Kit it?


I'd keep the CoKs unless you have an issue with the models or something. Drop them back to 8 models with the ASF banner and a muso for 275 points, and drop the champ off the BG to save another 39. That will get you 8 shades or an RBT and some extra points for your lvl 4
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Post by Hansleonard »

how should i rank up 8 CoK? 5+3 or 2x4
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Kaleth stinson
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Post by Kaleth stinson »

5+3 or depending on the target. Get as wide as possible and give them +1 attack from CoB
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Post by Hansleonard »

I am going to try this out and see how it goes in a few practice matches:

Lords: 330
Dupreme Sorceress - LVL 4 Shadow, Sac dagger/Darkstar Cloak, Dragon Egg, Opal Amulet. - 330

Heroes: 413
Cauldron of Blood BSB - 225

Master - Pegasus, HA, SDC, Soulrender, Dragonhelmet, Dawnstone - 188

Other: 276
5x Harpies - 55
5x Harpies - 55

Assassin - Manbane, Rhune of Khaine, xtra hand weapon, Cloak of Twillight - 166

Core: 760
21 Corsairs, FC, SSS - 260
35 Warriors, FC, SoD - 275
20 RBC, Musician, Shields - 225

Special: 550
20 BG, FC, BoM, Crimson Death - 350
CO Chariot - 100
CO Chariot - 100

Rare: 175
War Hydra

The assassin can cover many roles. He can hide in a unit and give extra hard hitting attacks, or he can use his cloak to snipe Warmachines and lonelly characters together with my Master and Harpies. While my Infantry hold the centre, my charriots strike at one flank and hydra the other with the Cauldron and flyers (and assassin) guarding the rear. (both mine and the enemies. ;) )

So what does the people think?
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