How bad is my list?

Svarthofthi · Post by **Svarthofthi** » Sat Oct 01, 2011 5:59 pm

3K List.

40 spearmen horde - full command banner of murder
Master BSB - SoM PoK
Supreme Sorceress - Black Staff Opal Amulet [Shadow lore]
Dreadlord General - Heartseeker, AoD, dawnstone, The Other Trickster's shard.

20 RxB musician, guardmaster
Sorceress [level 2] [fire lore] Lifetaker, ToF

24 Black Ark Corsairs SSS, full command

harpies 6 x 2

War Hydra

8 Cold One Knights Full command, RoH standard of discipline

Cauldron of Blood

18 Executioners banner of swiftness full command

10 Dark Riders Musician
-------------------------------
Playing against tomb jerks.

Kind of trying to get the horde to stay put, but I didn't want to fork out for the Banner of Nagarythe.

Meanwhile I am hoping to get flaming sword of rhuin, ideally for automatic wounds with the executioners. If not, fire is still decent lore, or use rhuin on something else. The executioners are aiming for the flank, we'll see.

Level 4 is of shadow for obvious reasons, reducing str and toughness is awesome and I hope to get much out of it with my RxBs.

I took the black staff because I feel like no one ever does and I got bored taking the sac dagger every time, forever.

In respect with my dreadlord's gear, it seems like a solid build, in terms of things. Could be better could be worse.

--- Side Note: keep in mind I am using the models I have, no proxies.

My first idea comes from basic tactics from real warfare, sticking the RxBs in front and fleeing behind the spears when charged, if they overrun into the spears, all the better. Keeping War Hydra and executioners near for flank charges.

If I roll flame cage, I'll attempt with the way I'll deploy to take command of movement and hopefully get him to charge when I want him to. Harpies and Dark Riders were put in the list as war machine hunters, as I have to play empire with this list in the coming week.

I dunno if I got everything but I think my general strategy is displayed. Be gentle, I care so much.

Rabidnid · Post by **Rabidnid** » Sat Oct 01, 2011 8:30 pm

I have used the flee through the unit behind for most of the time I've been playing WHFB, its one of the reasons for my fondness of witches, because they don't care.

From what you are saying, you are expecting a lot from lore of fire and a level 2.

RoH is not a bad addition to the CoKs and banner of disciple is also a reasonable choice.

The exes are another weak spot with their Ld 8. People are also going to dispute hitting on a 1+. My rule in playing is never use a tactic that you need to explain the validity of to an opponent.

I would still split the DR into 2 units. I wound takes away their rank and their ability to nullify steadfast.

The BSB is the only thing I really dispute. You are going to have two large blocks depending on either other and containing all of your characters. Make the CoB the BSB and and skip the master entirely. The CoB can then stay with your two main units and be thrown in the way of flank threats if required. The points you save can be used to tart up the DL and lvl 4.

Svarthofthi · Post by **Svarthofthi** » Sat Oct 01, 2011 11:41 pm

I appreciate all the advice here. I agree with all of it I think.

In terms of the master, I especially agree, I got tunnel visoned on the prospect of having a MAGIC bsb, so that I could utilize something like the banner of nagarythe to make the unit immovable, however, I ended up just having a regular BSB which, as you said, would have been much better on a CoB.

Which as a side note, I tend to like magic BSBs, is that just me or is the status quo the CoB BSB?

Game was a slight victory in the Tomb Jerk's favor, as terrain had kind of hindered my advance. Moreover he sniped my SS with a screaming skull catapult early on, breaking my hold on magic quite a bit.

Problem with taking Fire on a level 4 is that so many of the other spells aren't as useful as taking shadow, so I usually feel compelled to do it the way I had above.

You're also correct about the 1+ to wound, I believe it is in the errata for 8th edition and my opponent was the one who had enlightened me to it. "Q: Does a To Wound roll of a 1 always fail to Wound? (p42, 51)
A: No. Though it is very rare for a model to be able to Wound
on a 1+."

This is what we are siting and using in this sense. Though, of course, it does seem vague on when these opportunities arise.

The harpies did poorly, either through lack of terrain or my opponent deciding to make me march to him. I feel it would have been better served to split the DRs like you said and maybe invest in some shades.

The RoH didn't see action as the side of the battlefield with a suitable path was clogged with units and unable to reach the mages, as I had not guessed correctly where he would place his mages. I contend, this was more unlucky than skill, as we were mostly even on deployment.

The part that stumped me is that he decided not to move toward me at all and decided instead to shoot me to death and flank me with chariots and the like, which ended up hurting my advance as I had to poor more effort into preserving my flanks. Elves in general can't seem to stand up toward repeated withering fire, and it showed on my smaller units.

The executioners actually made their points on the snake knight guys, but were whittled badly thereafter. 'Course, there were only 18 there.

I dunno, I like what you said though, I will definitely pay more attention in the future, thanks a lot, it means a lot to me.

Rabidnid · Post by **Rabidnid** » Sat Oct 01, 2011 11:51 pm

Yeah, people who decide to gunline can be irritating. I try to include a load of magic and shooting in my armies so I can settle into cover and just ignore him for the game. Its not like he can complain

I like the pearl of infinite bleakness for making a unit ItP.

CoBs are great and they can take a banner with no disadvantage. Magic banner BSBs are just so vulnerable for what they do. They were a necessary evil to get the ASF banner in the army when that mattered, but it was nearly always a Death Hag that was unaffected but the loss of magic items. The pearl on the DL and a cheap master BSB with the ASF banner for re-rolls and ASF could work. With full mundane and a hand weapon he will have a 3+ save and a 6+ ward in CC and a 2+ save versus shooting for 150 points.

Svarthofthi · Post by **Svarthofthi** » Sun Oct 02, 2011 1:34 pm

Yeah... magic. Statistically I have had some bad mojo with magic and miscasts, so much so that I feel like taking the earthing rod all the time.

How do you run your magic gear for the most part? I am familiar with the Sac Dagger, but taking it all the time makes games boring to me, so I try to change it up. But I digress, in terms of making your magic solid, and by solid I mean keeping your magic effective without exploding, what is it you do?

I'd take more shooting but I lack the models at the moment. I am just so into the close combat stuff.

I'm brainstorming an effective army for getting into combat.

Pearl

Rabidnid · Post by **Rabidnid** » Sun Oct 02, 2011 5:42 pm

With magic I'm not much use as mine is totally different to most people.

I run a lvl 3/4 with dark and the familiar for the extra range as my general. CoB from 2K up and lvl 2 metal at higher points. Basically I think CoB is more dependable than shadow and dark more fun for your opponent than shadow.

Metal is good for swatting those knights and treemen, and the other spell you get might be useful.

I have no problem with a CC army, but I like to have enough shooting to shape your opponent's movement and get rid of his shaping units like fast cav, flyers and skirmishers. Once he has been reduced to his heavy units you can start planing your combi charges.

And this is not to say that this works all the time, but its more fun for me than a head-on bludgeon match or watching your opponent's army hobble about crippled by shadow. Blowing large chunks of his army off the table and dropping word of pain on his signature massive CC unit is more fun for me.

Svarthofthi · Post by **Svarthofthi** » Mon Oct 03, 2011 8:55 am

It seems difficult to muster a balanced list capable of beating a gunline and surviving a brutal assault. with just 20 rxbs thats 40 shots, which seems decent enough to me, to bring more would seem like cheese or just as bad a gunline as others, at least in my opinion.

However, I suppose, maybe, for core, swapping out a spear horde for a corsair horde would be better, same str, more attacks, and better save vs shooting, pair that with a master with ring of darkness and a that ironcurse trinket; I think you'll have a unit capable of surviving that deadly march to the other side.

In terms of magic, I really do like the dark lore, its particularly effective and relatively safe with its rather low casting values, not to mention the incredible effectiveness of word of pain and black horror, the former of which, you mentioned.

However, making your rxbs more viable seems to either compel you to take either the lore of death or shadow for their respective spells in lowering toughness, also the FSoR in the fire lore.